MY Pilot Rant....

[GlenWimpy]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

Grrrr. Nothing pisses me off more than Captains that don't treat their FAs right. Being a Captain isn't just about knowing procedures and being able to fly the plane. That's the least of it. Being a Captain is really about managing a crew, and you're doing a horrible job of managing the crew if they're angry at you for acting like a jerk. The FAs are an extremely valuable part of the crew, and they should be treated with respect. Anyone who doesn't treat them with respect doesn't deserve his fourth stripe.

When I was a Captain, I had a few rules that made life easy on the FA:

1. The entire crew, including the FA, gets three meals a day, no matter what. And I'm not talking about standing in the galley and inhaling a burrito while the gate agent breathes down your neck, I'm talking about nice relaxing meals so you can unwind. If that means delaying three flights a day because we don't have any breaks built into the schedule, then so be it. The delay report was always sent in saying "Captain needed meal break." That way, none of the other crew took the heat for delaying the flight, and I would be the one getting the phone call.

2. The flight doesn't get boarded until both me and the FA are ready. When walking up to a gate on a quick turn from an aircraft swap, most gate agents would say "I'll send the pax down in five minutes." My response: "No, you'll send them down after you check with the FA to see if she's ready. She has pre-flight checks to do, and she hasn't even seen if the plane has been cleaned yet. Come down in five minutes and ask her if she's ready for boarding."

3. It's my responsibility to keep the heat off of the FA by keeping the pax informed of what's going on. If we're sitting on a taxiway for 15 minutes because of a ground stop, then I need to make a PA so the people are informed and not taking it out on the FA. The simple act of keeping the people informed of what is going on can make an FA's day 100% better.

4. If something happens during a flight that requires the FA to submit a report and talk to her supervisor, like a denied pax boarding, then I'm going with her to see the supervisor to back her up. Management at Pinnacle tried to put a hell of a lot of pressure on the FAs and intimidate them, and they wouldn't pull that crap if the Captain was in the office with the FA during the meeting.

5. If an FA overslept accidentally or for some other reason showed up late to the plane (by accident, not intentionally), then I put the delay report on myself. They'll fire the FA for something like that, but they won't touch me.

6. If we're still at the gate and the FA is having problems with a passenger, then I'll go back to help handle it. For some reason the pax think they can give a bunch of crap to the FAs, but they shut up and comply when they see the guy with the blazer and hat walk up. Lots of Captains will just sit there on their happy asses and wait for the FAs and gate agents to take care of it. Pathetic, as far as I'm concerned.


There's more, but those are good examples. The general idea is simple: Captain's, take care of your FAs and back them up. They are an important part of your crew and they should be treated with respect. Any Captain that doesn't treat his FAs with respect isn't just a bad Captain, he's a bad human being.

Very well written!

Qgar print this off and slip in his flight bag!!!!

[Doug Taylor]

Yeah yeah yeah Qgar, all I know is that I have an empty coffee cup. Shake a leg, toots!

(Heavy amounts of )

[Kingairer]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Me either. Seriously, I've met a LOT of notables in my 37 years but he was the first guy who I was absolutely starstruck by.

"I'm sorry, excuse me sir, I can't believe I'm talking to Captain Al Haynes"

(laughter on the other end of the line)

"I cant believe im talking to THE doug taylor!"

[JA Yawd Bwoy]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

"I cant believe im talking to THE doug taylor!"

Whats wrong with you? Its CAPITAL Doug Taylor!

[Qgar]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Yeah yeah yeah Qgar, all I know is that I have an empty coffee cup. Shake a leg, toots!

(Heavy amounts of )

Why yes, dear! Anything else I can do for you, sweetie?!
Now THAT's how I treat the pilots I like...

[KLB]

Originally Posted by Qgar

As I originally said, I meant absolutely NO disrespect to you dawgs, but I'm sure you got what I meant. There are some people who just are not suited to interacting with other people. There's nothing wrong with being introverted or even arrogant (although it's annoying to many people), but if that's your personality and you don't enjoy working and interacting with others or think you're above everyone else, perhaps you should find employment more suited to it.
Hey, I can tell some of you freight dawgs are an absolute scream and lots of fun to be around. I guess I'll get to find that out in person at NJC in October.

I knew you weren't dissin' us freight pups. I just didn't want some newb figuring that they go into the freight world treating people any way they want because its single pilot. Bad attitudes may not even make it through training.

We are a blast. You shall see at NJC. Did that rhyme?

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Yeah yeah yeah Qgar, all I know is that I have an empty coffee cup. Shake a leg, toots!

(Heavy amounts of )

Thats a good way to get a little something extra in your coffee!

[Qgar]

Originally Posted by KLB

I knew you weren't dissin' us freight pups. I just didn't want some newb figuring that they go into the freight world treating people any way they want because its single pilot. Bad attitudes may not even make it through training.

We are a blast. You shall see at NJC. Did that rhyme?




Thats a good way to get a little something extra in your coffee!

Yes, it did rhyme and I can't wait to meet you all in Vegas!

Nah, I would NEVER mess with someone's health, no matter how big of an ass they are!

[Velocipede]

You know, I've thought about this thread a lot while on my little sabbatical.

Perhaps it is my military background, but Officers are trained that you NEVER concern yourself with your comfort until the needs of your men and equipment are met.

I extrapolate that to my crew. F/As are on the point of the spear ALL THE TIME. They are locked in an aluminum tube with the people that pay our wages for anywhere from 45 minutes to 15 hours, depending on the airline/route. Therefore, it is IMPERATIVE that the Captain is attuned to the F/As needs and gives them full support at all times.

To that end, my crew brief is simple: No drunks, no excess bags, no one gives flight attendents any crap.

Here's what that means...

No drunks. The FAA and Company policy dictates that we may not transport intoxicated passengers. CSAs tend to try to foist their problems off on F/As by saying, "He's not TOO drunk." Sorry, anyone who is intoxicated doesn't ride my airplane. If he's a problem at sea level, he's really going to be a problem at FL 410. My F/As have enough to worry about without intoxicated passengers.

No excess bags. If you can't lift it into the overhead compartment by yourself, we'll check it for you. I've seen too many F/As hurt trying to lift a passenger's bag.

No one gives F/As any crap. Self explanatory.

[B767Driver]

Here's about the only thing I've learned about flight attendants over the years. "Stay out of their galley." Yes I know you are a pilot...you are in command or second in command of the big ship...but you really have no rights to the galley. FA's are very territorial about all things galley.

I flew with a new hire last week for the first time. He was enamored by the flight attendants and the galleys. I wonder how long that will last. At one point he made some comment to me as such..."I don't think I'm hitting it off with the FA's." Of course not Romeo...you're in their galley...and they've each dated and been dumped by no less than 8 pilots over the years...so they pretty much just put up with you because they have to.

I mostly kid.

Lots and lots of our FA's are great, take great care of us and provide much comaraderie along the way.

[PCL_128]

On that I disagree. I'm the biggest supporter of the FAs that you'll find, but the galley, like the rest of plane, belongs to the Captain from the time he signs the release until the time the terminating check is complete. It is not the FA's galley.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

On that I disagree. I'm the biggest supporter of the FAs that you'll find, but the galley, like the rest of plane, belongs to the Captain from the time he signs the release until the time the terminating check is complete. It is not the FA's galley.

Good luck with ever getting your first choice of dinner...

[Doug Taylor]

They are VERY territorial.

It's really the captain's galley, of course, but you've got to pick your battles!

Sometimes when I fly relief, after my duties are done, I'll help with coats and sending pax down the correct aisle and I always get my first choice AND soup!

[KLB]

It's always funny figuring where to sit my stuff down, when going up front to get permission from the Captain and FO to come aboard. I usually just drag it all up front with me. I wouldn't want to tick the FA's off and miss out on that extra bag of peanuts and whole bottle/can of water.

[Doug Taylor]

Just drag it all up front or leave it in the jetway until you've got the nod! Well, that's at least what I do.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

They are VERY territorial.

I understand their point...if you are in the galley...you really are in the way. Sometimes, I'll just go in to pour my own cup of coffee (thinking I'm helping them out)...and they even want to do that. "We'll get your coffee....just don't mess up my galley!"

BTW, I flew to Athens with a couple of lovely ladies. I was chatting it up with them in the hotel lobby...and the first time they flew a trip to Athens was 3 years before I was born (1971!).

[Doug Taylor]

1971? Oh, you're a baby! Ha!

Kind of scary when some of the ladies were hired prior to my oldest brother being born in 1963.

So are you going to bid Barbel's last trip before she retires?

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

You know, I've thought about this thread a lot while on my little sabbatical.

Perhaps it is my military background, but Officers are trained that you NEVER concern yourself with your comfort until the needs of your men and equipment are met.

I extrapolate that to my crew. F/As are on the point of the spear ALL THE TIME. They are locked in an aluminum tube with the people that pay our wages for anywhere from 45 minutes to 15 hours, depending on the airline/route. Therefore, it is IMPERATIVE that the Captain is attuned to the F/As needs and gives them full support at all times.

To that end, my crew brief is simple: No drunks, no excess bags, no one gives flight attendents any crap.

Here's what that means...

No drunks. The FAA and Company policy dictates that we may not transport intoxicated passengers. CSAs tend to try to foist their problems off on F/As by saying, "He's not TOO drunk." Sorry, anyone who is intoxicated doesn't ride my airplane. If he's a problem at sea level, he's really going to be a problem at FL 410. My F/As have enough to worry about without intoxicated passengers.

No excess bags. If you can't lift it into the overhead compartment by yourself, we'll check it for you. I've seen too many F/As hurt trying to lift a passenger's bag.

No one gives F/As any crap. Self explanatory.

Ya see- that there is the kind of input a youngster like myself needs to hear from a seasoned Captain.

Good stuff, man. Definitely something I'll keep in my pocket for later in my career.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

On that I disagree. I'm the biggest supporter of the FAs that you'll find, but the galley, like the rest of plane, belongs to the Captain from the time he signs the release until the time the terminating check is complete. It is not the FA's galley.

Technically correct, but that sort of attitude might be ultimately limiting.
Look at it this way:

General George S. Patton was in command of thousands. His name moved mountains as far as the Army was concerned, all that fell under his supervision and responsibility was 'his'. Nonetheless, he still felt this way-

"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results."

In other words, don't micromanage your people- let them run their show, and keep your mitts off their areas of concern. Supervise, yes, but do so by marking the noting the overall effect, not limiting the scope of someone's influence within their own area of concern.

Letting it be the "FA's galley" is a courtesy granted by the Captain that allows them pride in ownership and thereby gives more incentive to rise to their fullest potential. It's not just civil, it's wisdom that allows the crew to bring their very best to the operation.

The FAs will be happier, and thereby, so will the customers. I've never been a captain, but I have been a leader, and a supervisor, and I've seen many good examples of both. In that, I know this to be true. In this case, the attitude that you project will be noticed by your crew. Regardless of what you say to them, if your attitude doesn't jive they'll know.

If I knew then what I knew now, I'd have been a much more effective leader.

[Velocipede]

Exactly correct, Firebird. In addition to giving your F/As their "space" you have to respect their professional appraisal of situations. You're locked behind the fortress door...they're on scene.

If they want a passenger removed, I remove them. If they want LEOs to meet the plane, LEOs meet the plane. Conversely, if they think they have a situation handled, I let them handle it. Granted, you may have an occasional sour grape or space cadet, but 99.9% of F/As not only know their job, but they have the experience to smooth over the ruffled feathers of passengers who are having a less than perfect transportation day.

That goes double for women like Qgar. Coming to this job later in life, she has more "life experience" that she can apply to situations than some of the younger F/As do. While I rely on ALL my crewmembers to perform, there's a certain extra something you get from older F/As. Perhaps its their ability to "mother" the passengers in a way the younger ladies haven't experienced yet.

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

Good luck with ever getting your first choice of dinner...

Dinner? Remember which airline I work for? I don't even know the meaning of the term "crew meal."

But it's not like that here, anyway. Never heard an FA come close to saying anything about "her galley." Most Captains will dig through the galley for snacks or whatever else they want all the time. Never a peep from a stew. Difference culture around here.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

If they want a passenger removed, I remove them. Granted, you may have an occasional space cadet, but 99.9%.... .

I'm a little careful with this one. At my company we have a central security officer to consult with when removing passengers. Some specific actions have to occur before willy nilly deny boarding to someone. The tendency is to believe everyone's judgment in the back is as good as yours...unfortunately...not always the case.

I remember one flight attendant after 9/11 was really freaked out because a middle eastern man was on the flight. Turns out he was Mexican...and we were flying out of Austin.

Does your company permit denied boarding of pax for any action?

[PCL_128]

At all three airlines I've worked for, Captains have authority to remove passengers for any reason they deem necessary. No consultation is required with any manager. How many levels of redundant bureaucracy does DAL have?

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

At all three airlines I've worked for, Captains have authority to remove passengers for any reason they deem necessary. No consultation is required with any manager. How many levels of redundant bureaucracy does DAL have?

After 9/11 airlines were being sued heavily because passengers were being denied boarding for basically any reason. It's been a big deal for us for every recurrent training session since...and it's to eliminate discriminitory lawsuits. Not a bad tool to have at your disposal, really. If a captain wants to deny boarding to a passenger, he still has that right...but I suppose will have to respond in kind during litigation. I believe some of these lawsuits named not only the corporation...but individual employees as well. If the captain follows company protocol...he's basically covered.

[Qgar]

OK.. First of all, thanks, V, for the very kind words.

Second, you're a very smart young man, Charlie.

Third, to the rest of you guys discussing the "galley as FA territory." I NEVER mind any pilot coming back there to visit (pre flight or between flights) ,although I'm very happy to get them a beverage or snacks (or the occasional crew meal). Sometimes they need a change of scenery and I welcome them! Oh, I'm territorial of the galley, but only for pax and other FA's from different airlines.

[MQAAord]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

Most Captains will dig through the galley for snacks or whatever else they want all the time. Never a peep from a stew. Difference culture around here.

If the pilots were in the galley getting stuff from our stocks, I never minded.

BUT, if I've set up the cart or inserts for the top of the cart, that's work I've done in preparation for serving the customers, PLEASE have the courtesy to not un-do the work I've done in setting up the aisle serving cart. All I asked is that they stay out of the cart that I've got set up the way I want it set up. I never minded the crews helping themselves, but please respect the work I've done.

Though I always asked the guys as soon as I could if they wanted anything, so seldom did they have the need to try to find anything themselves. I tried very hard to take good care of my pilots, making sure they had a garbage bag, whatever drinks they wanted, and as much food as I was able to give them.

The galley is the F/As "office", however I was always fully aware that my office was in the CA's office The airplane is the CA's airplane, that is never in dispute. But I do have my workspace too, and I ask for a little consideration in respecting my little corner of the plane.