No more Frontier flights for Republic

[Airdale]

On the original thread topic, I'm listening to our investor conference call and Bedford is speaking with investors regarding the current situation. He doesn't seem very worried at all about placing the 12 170's from Frontier or the 5 deliveries. Talks with Delta are going well to place those in service on the S5 certificate, but nothing is settled yet.

He also noted that HE made the decision to terminate the agreement with Frontier. Not the other way around. He chose to do so to prevent losing more money while F9 is under Ch.11 protection. The company is also filing suit against F9 for $280M for payment of services.

RAH will be fine, I wish I could say the same for us junior guys.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Apparently a reserve holder can not pick up a drop trip from a line holder. Which is silly because a line holder is looking to get those days off, and here you have a reserve guy itching to fly. You should be able to pick up that trip.

Well, most places want their reserves to be sitting around available so they can make you fly what they want, not what you want. I think XJet is the only place where reserves can put trips on their reserve days 24 hours in advance (as far as the regionals go).

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by SIUAv8r

Because of this practice, we have NO reserve coverage. That is not how reserve is supposed to work.

I know how it's supposed to work...

On a side note...this will change soon though. With the amount of hiring they've done on the RW side, and the events involving Frontier, we will finally have enough pilots in bases to allow for reserve coverage. When you have 75 guys/month going through IOE for a couple month period along with the same CA upgrades, don't expect there to be much open time.

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by Airdale

On the original thread topic, I'm listening to our investor conference call and Bedford is speaking with investors regarding the current situation. He doesn't seem very worried at all about placing the 12 170's from Frontier or the 5 deliveries. Talks with Delta are going well to place those in service on the S5 certificate, but nothing is settled yet.

He also noted that HE made the decision to terminate the agreement with Frontier. Not the other way around. He chose to do so to prevent losing more money while F9 is under Ch.11 protection. The company is also filing suit against F9 for $280M for payment of services.

RAH will be fine, I wish I could say the same for us junior guys.

You'll be fine, as well. I don't expect too much reserve for you either. Take it for what it's worth, but Jeff Davis came to FS yesterday in STL to talk to the classes that were kept around and told them hiring will resume in July. We'll see...

...if you're not flying while on reserve, just pick up open time on your days off!

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

I know how it's supposed to work...

On a side note...this will change soon though. With the amount of hiring they've done on the RW side, and the events involving Frontier, we will finally have enough pilots in bases to allow for reserve coverage. When you have 75 guys/month going through IOE for a couple month period along with the same CA upgrades, don't expect there to be much open time.

However a more senior FO as in he should not have to struggle to pick up time and wonder why it was given to a RSV pilot when he could have done that trip.... Not how its suppose to work.... not a matter of it wont be long... its a matter of what is right and what is wrong..... Seniority is everyting..... remember that was the key of this industry yet he who is more senior is having the open time going to a RSV pilot a week in advance? hmmm

In addition didnt Airdale just pass your checkride this month? So you barely are done with IOE and worried about sitting reserve for a few months? Man I wish I had a line right off IOE...... I bet JH and those guys over at xjet will sit here and pitty you as well.....

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

However a more senior FO as in he should not have to struggle to pick up time and wonder why it was given to a RSV pilot when he could have done that trip.... Not how its suppose to work.... not a matter of it wont be long... its a matter of what is right and what is wrong..... Seniority is everyting..... remember that was the key of this industry yet he who is more senior is having the open time going to a RSV pilot a week in advance? hmmm

In addition didnt Airdale just pass your checkride this month? So you barely are done with IOE and worried about sitting reserve for a few months? Man I wish I had a line right off IOE...... I bet JH and those guys over at xjet will sit here and pitty you as well.....

Pity him? Wow...I don't think he's looking for pity. You've got a chip on your shoulder for some reason.

No, it's not a matter of what is right and wrong. It's a business decision and it's done so the company has pilots THAT CAN FLY. The company rightfully so withholds open time at the beginning of each month and saves it to fill IOE. They haven't had a choice as we've had so many that come up and need IOE at the same time. What's your IOE wait? How much time off between sim and IOE? Mine was 6 days. Would it work out better to have someone wait 4-6 weeks for IOE or to have them on the line immediately? The second part is the # of CA's we've had upgrade. New CA's mean more green pairings and that can't happen. I had 4 trips changed after IOE due to a green crew. I never sat a day of reserve, but some of the open time goes to new FO's to fill their line so they can get off green status so the company can be run efficiently and they can actually be used to fly...what a novel idea!!! Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[ERfly]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Well, most places want their reserves to be sitting around available so they can make you fly what they want, not what you want. I think XJet is the only place where reserves can put trips on their reserve days 24 hours in advance (as far as the regionals go).

There is an Aggressive Pickup Window (APW) for reserves. It opens at 7am for Long-Call pilots (and 9am if there is anything left for short-call pilots) the morning before your reserve period. If there is a trip in open time equal to the amount of reserve days available, you can have it. However, you do not own the trip until 9 hours before show. A line holder can still snag it.

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by ERfly

There is an Aggressive Pickup Window (APW) for reserves. It opens at 7am for Long-Call pilots (and 9am if there is anything left for short-call pilots) the morning before your reserve period. If there is a trip in open time equal to the amount of reserve days available, you can have it. However, you do not own the trip until 9 hours before show. A line holder can still snag it.

Actually sounds like a cool system...

[SoCalAprch]

Here is a perfect example of why our reserve system sucks:

Me (line holder) sees an open time trip in the pool that is commutable for me. As you can imagine (San Diego-CVG) these are hard to come by. Starts at like 6:30pm and ends at like 10 in the morning, sweet I think, I don't even have to give up a day traveling. I try to drop another 4 day worth less flying that isn't commutable on either side and pick up the new 4 day that is in open time. Denied. Bull****... They assigned it to some reserve guy from another base that they had to dead head in. I don't get it, I called crew sked and they told me that I would have to talk to the other pilot if I wanted to get it changed. This trip wasn't for another 2.5 weeks. I asked why they assigned reserves open time this far in advance and what the point of our new trip trading system is if all the open time is assigned as soon as the lines come out? They just said "this is how we have always done it and will continue to do so until we are told differently." Well Fak you too then!

Also I don't think this will be as bad as everyone is making it out to be. If Bedford can get those planes on with someone else everything will be fine. Hate to say it guys but the hiring was bound to stop for some time now so you all shouldn't be surprised, the writing was definitely on the wall. Its sad that those guys had to go home after they had already started but people should have seen this coming as soon as all those other airlines went tango uniform. Just keep your fingers crossed that we don't lose any of our big 5. If that happens it will get really bad...

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

Pity him? Wow...I don't think he's looking for pity. You've got a chip on your shoulder for some reason.

No, it's not a matter of what is right and wrong. It's a business decision and it's done so the company has pilots THAT CAN FLY. The company rightfully so withholds open time at the beginning of each month and saves it to fill IOE. They haven't had a choice as we've had so many that come up and need IOE at the same time. What's your IOE wait? How much time off between sim and IOE? Mine was 6 days. Would it work out better to have someone wait 4-6 weeks for IOE or to have them on the line immediately? The second part is the # of CA's we've had upgrade. New CA's mean more green pairings and that can't happen. I had 4 trips changed after IOE due to a green crew. I never sat a day of reserve, but some of the open time goes to new FO's to fill their line so they can get off green status so the company can be run efficiently and they can actually be used to fly...what a novel idea!!! Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

You are right.... since I was the one who brought it up in the first place... Oh wait no I wasnt... matter of fact it was someone who's been on this forum and in the 121 world a lot longer then either of us. In addition so what if someone waits a bit before they get a line.... give me a break... again there's going to be a lot of pitty on here for you..... give me a break man... who are you trying to kid? In addition most companies your IOE captains bid for their lines and then they have FO's and those who need IOE placed with them.... But again I just spoke with one of your FO's earlier who's been there a lot longer then you and he would agree your contract needs some work. Interesting how there are some classy individuals at companies and then some questionable ones as well..... He and I can sit and talk forever about things that need to change at both companies... NO COMPANY is perfect..... Even your own there buddy....

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

Here is a perfect example of why our reserve system sucks:

Me (line holder) sees an open time trip in the pool that is commutable for me. As you can imagine (San Diego-CVG) these are hard to come by. Starts at like 6:30pm and ends at like 10 in the morning, sweet I think, I don't even have to give up a day traveling. I try to drop another 4 day worth less flying that isn't commutable on either side and pick up the new 4 day that is in open time. Denied. Bull****... They assigned it to some reserve guy from another base that they had to dead head in. I don't get it, I called crew sked and they told me that I would have to talk to the other pilot if I wanted to get it changed. This trip wasn't for another 2.5 weeks. I asked why they assigned reserves open time this far in advance and what the point of our new trip trading system is if all the open time is assigned as soon as the lines come out? They just said "this is how we have always done it and will continue to do so until we are told differently." Well Fak you too then!

Also I don't think this will be as bad as everyone is making it out to be. If Bedford can get those planes on with someone else everything will be fine. Hate to say it guys but the hiring was bound to stop for some time now so you all shouldn't be surprised, the writing was definitely on the wall. Its sad that those guys had to go home after they had already started but people should have seen this coming as soon as all those other airlines went tango uniform. Just keep your fingers crossed that we don't lose any of our big 5. If that happens it will get really bad...

EXACTLY! The above about your reserve is dead on and i hope some others will listen to you! In addition I've actually met Bedford and he's a very smart guy... In addition to a great Christian guy who I've had the chance to attend service with..... he konws what he is doing! And honestly I would not be surprised to see those planes be sold.... Cananda or over seas...... He knows what he is doing..... Your company did not expand like it did because he's an idiot!

[Kingairer]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

You are right.... since I was the one who brought it up in the first place... Oh wait no I wasnt... matter of fact it was someone who's been on this forum and in the 121 world a lot longer then either of us. In addition so what if someone waits a bit before they get a line.... give me a break... again there's going to be a lot of pitty on here for you..... give me a break man... who are you trying to kid? In addition most companies your IOE captains bid for their lines and then they have FO's and those who need IOE placed with them.... But again I just spoke with one of your FO's earlier who's been there a lot longer then you and he would agree your contract needs some work. Interesting how there are some classy individuals at companies and then some questionable ones as well..... He and I can sit and talk forever about things that need to change at both companies... NO COMPANY is perfect..... Even your own there buddy....

Did the interview not go well?

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

Did the interview not go well?

Never applied.... FYI i my family goes to church with your CEO..... I have nothing against.... you yourself should know better about the airlines.... You all seriously need to simmer your rear ends down..... take a damn breath!

[SoCalAprch]

What do you mean about the green on green thing? I think we have a waiver at CHQ.

It is fine if they hold slots for IOE but if they don't get filled they should be put into open time so line holders can have first dibs at them. Reserve isn't knowing you have a 4 day 2 weeks in advance. Thats a built up line. I hate to say it but reserve is the "Good Morning, we have a trip for you..." phone call. Not "Hi, we built up your schedule and you have a 4 day in 2 weeks then a 3 day a couple days after that..." Its a flawed system. But we shouldn't be arguing about our trip trading and reserve systems when some of our brothers at Republic are being displaced from their homes. Maybe I will just always commute, that way if and when I get displaced it won't be that big of a deal...

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

Maybe I will just always commute, that way if and when I get displaced it won't be that big of a deal...

Until you wake up one morning and find out you've been displaced to where you live.

[ERfly]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

What do you mean about the green on green thing? I think we have a waiver at CHQ.

It is fine if they hold slots for IOE but if they don't get filled they should be put into open time so line holders can have first dibs at them. Reserve isn't knowing you have a 4 day 2 weeks in advance. Thats a built up line. I hate to say it but reserve is the "Good Morning, we have a trip for you..." phone call. Not "Hi, we built up your schedule and you have a 4 day in 2 weeks then a 3 day a couple days after that..." Its a flawed system. But we shouldn't be arguing about our trip trading and reserve systems when some of our brothers at Republic are being displaced from their homes. Maybe I will just always commute, that way if and when I get displaced it won't be that big of a deal...

It could be a way to get consolidation done (100 hours in 120 days). We have a provision in our contract that says the exception to reserve assignments will be made in order to take care of consolidation.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

You are right.... since I was the one who brought it up in the first place... Oh wait no I wasnt... matter of fact it was someone who's been on this forum and in the 121 world a lot longer then either of us. In addition so what if someone waits a bit before they get a line.... give me a break... again there's going to be a lot of pitty on here for you..... give me a break man... who are you trying to kid? In addition most companies your IOE captains bid for their lines and then they have FO's and those who need IOE placed with them.... But again I just spoke with one of your FO's earlier who's been there a lot longer then you and he would agree your contract needs some work. Interesting how there are some classy individuals at companies and then some questionable ones as well..... He and I can sit and talk forever about things that need to change at both companies... NO COMPANY is perfect..... Even your own there buddy....

Wow dude, I think you need to take the "simmer down" advice here. Nobody is complaining about sitting reserve or complaining about the way the company does things, except for a few line holders.

I'll sit reserve from home as long as they want me to, unfortunately that reserve time will get longer when our DEN guys come to the base, but so be it. As long as we (pilots at RAH)all have a job and I can sit reserve at home, then I'm not complaining. A bonus would be to get a chance to fly here and there.

From someone who is on green, with less than 100hrs in the airplane, I am glad scheduling is getting me flying. I'd be pissed if I had to go back to training to do a PC all over again because line holders, already flying their tail off, are picking up what open time is left. Sure, a line holder would argue differently, but until I get hit my 100hr mark here before time runs out, I'll take the flying I get. After that, let the line holders have their fun with open time.

Tell me again where someone was asking for "pity"?

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Wow dude, I think you need to take the "simmer down" advice here. Nobody is complaining about sitting reserve or complaining about the way the company does things, except for a few line holders.

I'll sit reserve from home as long as they want me to, unfortunately that reserve time will get longer when our DEN guys come to the base, but so be it. As long as we (pilots at RAH)all have a job and I can sit reserve at home, then I'm not complaining. A bonus would be to get a chance to fly here and there.

From someone who is on green, with less than 100hrs in the airplane, I am glad scheduling is getting me flying. I'd be pissed if I had to go back to training to do a PC all over again because line holders, already flying their tail off, are picking up what open time is left. Sure, a line holder would argue differently, but until I get hit my 100hr mark here before time runs out, I'll take the flying I get. After that, let the line holders have their fun with open time.

Tell me again where someone was asking for "pity"?

Your above post were complaing about them coming to PHL and therefore pushing you from holding a line... that's all I was referring too...... If you are not complaining and perhaps it was just a poor read that is just fine.... Then I apologize. However the 1st read and then the next few re reads to make sure I had it right make it appear that way...... As far as the 2nd part.... I'll let the other guys talk about the Line holders picking up flying.... However they IMO should have the first dips at it.

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Until you wake up one morning and find out you've been displaced to where you live.

Then I guess I would just have to move somewhere else.

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Wow dude, I think you need to take the "simmer down" advice here. Nobody is complaining about sitting reserve or complaining about the way the company does things, except for a few line holders.

I'll sit reserve from home as long as they want me to, unfortunately that reserve time will get longer when our DEN guys come to the base, but so be it. As long as we (pilots at RAH)all have a job and I can sit reserve at home, then I'm not complaining. A bonus would be to get a chance to fly here and there.

From someone who is on green, with less than 100hrs in the airplane, I am glad scheduling is getting me flying. I'd be pissed if I had to go back to training to do a PC all over again because line holders, already flying their tail off, are picking up what open time is left. Sure, a line holder would argue differently, but until I get hit my 100hr mark here before time runs out, I'll take the flying I get. After that, let the line holders have their fun with open time.

Tell me again where someone was asking for "pity"?

It shouldn't let you pick up trips if you go over the max schedule (88 hours I think). But if I want to trade a trip I should be able to. If they have enough open time to build up reserve schedules they should just be line holders. Thats all Im saying, I don't want to pick up any extra flying and I don't think thats what line holders are upset about. Its that if I have a 4 day and don't want it and would rather pick up another 4 day in open time I should be able to.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Your above post were complaing about them coming to PHL and therefore pushing you from holding a line... that's all I was referring too...... If you are not complaining and perhaps it was just a poor read that is just fine.... Then I apologize. However the 1st read and then the next few re reads to make sure I had it right make it appear that way...... As far as the 2nd part.... I'll let the other guys talk about the Line holders picking up flying.... However they IMO should have the first dips at it.

Hmmm...still looking for where I was complaining about DEN guys coming to PHL. Maybe a bit worried about what might happen to us on reserve, but who wouldn't be a bit worried about being displaced. Every DEN pilot has a right to come to PHL, I'm not complaining about that. Sure I would be pushed further from a line and that sucks, but hey, you can't have your cake and eat it too. I'd rather sit reserve for awhile longer then see our pilots get screwed.

[Dan208B]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Never applied.... FYI i my family goes to church with your CEO..... I have nothing against.... you yourself should know better about the airlines.... You all seriously need to simmer your rear ends down..... take a damn breath!

In all fairness, you obviously have a big problem with RAH whether you believe it yourself or not... I have yet to hear one positive thing without the negative tone...

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by Dan208B

In all fairness, you obviously have a big problem with RAH whether you believe it yourself or not... I have yet to hear one positive thing without the negative tone...

Righto Dano..... How could I forget you know it all? Oh wait yeah there was indeed sarcasm there!

Hey take a minute and go back up there again and re read all the thread.... You know if you have the time.... I believe I had nothing but great things to say about your CEO...... But you are probably right I only like him because he goes to the family church (NOT).... Good guy! But you overlooked that with my other thoughts..... Oh yeah and they are just that thoughts.... Forgot in a free country we had that freedom of speech thing....

Originally Posted by meyers9163

"EXACTLY! The above about your reserve is dead on and i hope some others will listen to you! In addition I've actually met Bedford and he's a very smart guy... In addition to a great Christian guy who I've had the chance to attend service with..... he konws what he is doing! And honestly I would not be surprised to see those planes be sold.... Cananda or over seas...... He knows what he is doing..... Your company did not expand like it did because he's an idiot!" (Posted this earlier in this thread, in case you were unable to go back and look)

[inside0ut]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Righto Dano..... How could I forget you know it all? Oh wait yeah there was indeed sarcasm there!

Hey take a minute and go back up there again and re read all the thread.... You know if you have the time.... I believe I had nothing but great things to say about your CEO...... But you are probably right I only like him because he goes to the family church (NOT).... Good guy! But you overlooked that with my other thoughts..... Oh yeah and they are just that thoughts.... Forgot in a free country we had that freedom of speech thing....

Hey, man, I have no dog in this fight, but could you tone it down a touch? I think you need to take a breath, go back and re-read everyones posts and think about what they are saying. There is seriously no need to get all bent out of shape.

Speaking of getting bent all out of shape, reminds me of my cab ride 2 days ago when the hotel van left my whole crew stranded. I had to say it to the cabbie many time. It did give me a good story tho.

It starts like this. "So there I was, smoking a cigarette, when the cops finally showed up."

It was fun!