No more Frontier flights for Republic

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by GalaxyIFE

I know it's been bad in the past, but all the indicators that I see really point to this being one serious, if not the worst, "down cycle". I really hope I am wrong, but I just don't see a saving grace.

As long as oil continues to stay over $100 a barrel, there is simply no current business model to make money. The way they're going about it, with an obsession over keeping planes full instead of only selling seats at a profitable or breakeven price, simply isn't going to work.

This time, going to chapter 11 to try to get employee concessions isn't going to work. How much more are people willing to give up after taking some major pay and benefit cuts the last time?

Forget about how much are they willing to give up, let's talk about how much they CAN give up.

[GalaxyIFE]

Originally Posted by tonyw

As long as oil continues to stay over $100 a barrel, there is simply no current business model to make money. The way they're going about it, with an obsession over keeping planes full instead of only selling seats at a profitable or breakeven price, simply isn't going to work.

This time, going to chapter 11 to try to get employee concessions isn't going to work. How much more are people willing to give up after taking some major pay and benefit cuts the last time?

Forget about how much are they willing to give up, let's talk about how much they CAN give up.

This is what scares me in regards to the labor. I can see a plethora of pilots and a shortage of jobs. I think you know where I am going with this. It will be just a matter of time before management starts asking for concessions again. Man this ain't looking good.

[sigpilot]

Its nice we dont have all our eggs in one basket, but since RAH is so diverisfied when something happens in the industry it will most likely affect us. The Frontier flying was only about 5% of our flying but it still hurts and I'm affraid whats gonna happen next. I got almost 400 peeps under me total and almost 150 on the RW certificate. Hope things work out, but since EVERYONE in DEN is senior to me I know I'm gonna lose my line in PHL ( I was 34 of 50ish lines ) cause its the most commutable base for those guys.

[PCL_128]

Eh, I doubt they'll be coming for concessions. Even management knows that they've squeezed the last drop out of labor. If there had been a short pattern bargaining cycle where some small improvements were made over the concessions, then they might stand a chance, but not now. Everyone is still fuming from the last round of concessions that cut far too deep. The next CEO that asks for concessions might catch a bullet in his back from an employee going postal. They won't play that game. They'll beg the government for help this time around.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

They'll beg the government for help this time around.

I could not AGREE more! Its going to be time for the government to step up and step up big times...... lets stop putting money into Baseball steroids, etc etc...... Unless they want the aviation world to revolve around the wealthy only who knows.....

[Wing_96]

Why should the govt step in and do what the airline CEOs are capable of doing?

[pilatus028]

I just got displaced and I'm not even in training lol. My first taste of airline instability. Looks like I'll have the summer off, but hopefully be able to get to work soon. I'm just hoping they find a way to pick up that Frontier slack. There is still much need to move out west is there not? Denver is still going to need a Frontier are they not?

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

They'll beg the government for help this time around.

Well, my thinking is, if you want my tax dollars, you better be willing to give something up for it.

Reregulation? Back to the days of the CAB and stability in the airline industry?

What say you, Comrade?

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by pilatus028

I just got displaced and I'm not even in training lol. My first taste of airline instability. Looks like I'll have the summer off, but hopefully be able to get to work soon. I'm just hoping they find a way to pick up that Frontier slack. There is still much need to move out west is there not? Denver is still going to need a Frontier are they not?

Nah not at all.... Southwest has already placed quite a few ads it sounds like onto Denver TV.... Nobody NEEDS anyone..... There are a few airlines that could pick up the Frontier routes and do just find... UAL, Southwest just to name a few..... Who knows...... a few more I am sure I am missing.... just those two come right off the top of the brain right away.....

Also on being displaced you might want to look else where and see if you can find another job... RAH isnt the end all.... Why not apply else where and get on with someone asap? Just my 2 cents.... You make it sound like you are COUNTING on RAH needing you come summer... Perhaps they will, perhaps they wont.... I personally am not able to gamble if I were into that situation!

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by Wing_96

Why should the govt step in and do what the airline CEOs are capable of doing?

Why do the step into baseball and football when things got all screwy..... Why would they sit back and not do anything when gas prices are so high and the normal folk are having a hard time just paying for gas to get to work.... Oh that's right because the GOVERNMENT works for us.... we dont work for them... Pehaps more need to take on that attitude and force the government to make changes..... Not a campaign speech but lets face it.... its about time we all get together as a country and make our politicians work for us..... and not us working for them..... just a wild thought!

[Wing_96]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Why do the step into baseball and football when things got all screwy..... Why would they sit back and not do anything when gas prices are so high and the normal folk are having a hard time just paying for gas to get to work.... Oh that's right because the GOVERNMENT works for us.... we dont work for them... Pehaps more need to take on that attitude and force the government to make changes..... Not a campaign speech but lets face it.... its about time we all get together as a country and make our politicians work for us..... and not us working for them..... just a wild thought!

I agree with you that they (govt) should be working for us, but it sure doesn't seem like they do. I have no idea why they took such an interest in steroids in baseball. I would think that should be something that the MLB would concern itself about, if they thought it was an issue that needed to be addressed.

I'm not saying that govt intervention may not be called for here, because I honestly don't know what would be the best thing for the business. It does seem like (to me), however, that airline mgmt as a whole should be able to price flights for everyone to cover their costs or at least be closer to covering their costs.

[SoCalAprch]

This is bad, but not the end of the world. Sad to say it but it looks like Republic will finally be properly staffed. Too bad for the guys going through training that got the Ax and too bad for the senior guys out in Denver. Bedford is a smart guy, Im sure he will figure out what to do with the planes. Meyers how come it seems in all your posts about Republic you have a bad taste in your mouth? Did they not hire you? How come it doesn't seem you like them?

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by Wing_96

Why should the govt step in and do what the airline CEOs are capable of doing?

I think it's blatantly obvious that the CEOs are capable of very little. It's not entirely their fault, it's the fault of a free market system that simply doesn't work in this industry.

Originally Posted by tonyw

Well, my thinking is, if you want my tax dollars, you better be willing to give something up for it.

Reregulation? Back to the days of the CAB and stability in the airline industry?

What say you, Comrade?

Sounds good to me. But I'm just a socialist pig.

[mrmeschi]

My thoughts are with all of you RAH guys. I was (or still am?) in the pool and I hope things start looking better soon for all of us!

[UPSpilot]

Originally Posted by GalaxyIFE

Glad to hear this sentiment. Seeing the same arguments over and over get's so freakin' old!

I know it's been bad in the past, but all the indicators that I see really point to this being one serious, if not the worst, "down cycle". I really hope I am wrong, but I just don't see a saving grace.

I do. It's called China and India.

[UPSpilot]

Originally Posted by tonyw

As long as oil continues to stay over $100 a barrel, there is simply no current business model to make money. The way they're going about it, with an obsession over keeping planes full instead of only selling seats at a profitable or breakeven price, simply isn't going to work.

This time, going to chapter 11 to try to get employee concessions isn't going to work. How much more are people willing to give up after taking some major pay and benefit cuts the last time?

Forget about how much are they willing to give up, let's talk about how much they CAN give up.

Pax airlines, yes. Express air freight, no.

[Dan208B]

I hate to tell you this but if you were in a pool you probably aren't anymore.... HR came into our RW class this morning and said we are dispaced to Shuttle, ok with me, except we have to go through indoc and systems again. I feel terrible for everyone in the class that started monday. They terminated(NOT furloughed) every last one of them. Not a good time to be looking for jobs... Things are bad everywhere, but this is a great company and i'm still glad to have a job here. This isn't a time to be saying, oh look at RW's mistakes, look what they've done. Nobody expected this, and while things are bad we should all be in support of one another. I dont wish to see any regional lose any of their contracts.... Best of luck to any of our pilots who were sent home today.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

This is bad, but not the end of the world. Sad to say it but it looks like Republic will finally be properly staffed. Too bad for the guys going through training that got the Ax and too bad for the senior guys out in Denver. Bedford is a smart guy, Im sure he will figure out what to do with the planes. Meyers how come it seems in all your posts about Republic you have a bad taste in your mouth? Did they not hire you? How come it doesn't seem you like them?

Hmm... weird especially with this thread.... didnt think once I said anything bad... didnt even apply or attempt to. One of my best buddies is there and I was on the phone for a long part of the day with him..... Again I say thinks and speak them from a perspective... This isnt about me so lets not go there. This is about the unforunate events of some pilots going to be displaced...... Heck if you even read I said I hope MESA would not be affected... more then most can say I might add !

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by Dan208B

I hate to tell you this but if you were in a pool you probably aren't anymore.... HR came into our RW class this morning and said we are dispaced to Shuttle, ok with me, except we have to go through indoc and systems again. I feel terrible for everyone in the class that started monday. They terminated(NOT furloughed) every last one of them. Not a good time to be looking for jobs... Things are bad everywhere, but this is a great company and i'm still glad to have a job here. This isn't a time to be saying, oh look at RW's mistakes, look what they've done. Nobody expected this, and while things are bad we should all be in support of one another. I dont wish to see any regional lose any of their contracts.... Best of luck to any of our pilots who were sent home today.

Is this the latest? Buddy told me all the RAH guys too were let go and not put over to shuttle? What does this have to do with CHQ/Shuttle? Is this only going to effect RAH or will it be the company as a whole!?

[Dan208B]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Is this the latest? Buddy told me all the RAH guys too were let go and not put over to shuttle? What does this have to do with CHQ/Shuttle? Is this only going to effect RAH or will it be the company as a whole!?

Honestly I dont know. That is what HR told is in class this morning. How it works is us(the 3/25 class) are remaining and going to shuttle. The 4/21 class(this monday) were all terminated. As far as CHQ/S5 goes, there will definitely be effects. The DEN guys are able to bid for displacements to other RW domiciles as well as a transfer to S5 as of right now. Also, all upgrade awards have been cancelled unless they already started class. It will be widespread at RAH. I can't help but wonder why they didn't plan better for this, I honestly am not in any way surprised we lost F9. Guess they had more faith in F9 than I did. Oh well though, glad the damage isn't worse, hope they will learn from their mistakes. Still glad im here.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by Dan208B

Honestly I dont know. That is what HR told is in class this morning. How it works is us(the 3/25 class) are remaining and going to shuttle. The 4/21 class(this monday) were all terminated. As far as CHQ/S5 goes, there will definitely be effects. The DEN guys are able to bid for displacements to other RW domiciles as well as a transfer to S5 as of right now. Also, all upgrade awards have been cancelled unless they already started class. It will be widespread at RAH. I can't help but wonder why they didn't plan better for this, I honestly am not in any way surprised we lost F9. Guess they had more faith in F9 than I did. Oh well though, glad the damage isn't worse, hope they will learn from their mistakes. Still glad im here.

Good deal.... well yeah at least you have a job..... you are with a solid company... and in a weird way I am glad its the F9 instead of the DAL/UAL/Coax/Airways..... that'd have hurt a lot lot more.......

[Dan208B]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Good deal.... well yeah at least you have a job..... you are with a solid company... and in a weird way I am glad its the F9 instead of the DAL/UAL/Coax/Airways..... that'd have hurt a lot lot more.......

Same here man... That would have caused some serious issues.... You guys are Airways right?

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by Dan208B

Same here man... That would have caused some serious issues.... You guys are Airways right?

Yup yup.... w/o

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by Dan208B

Honestly I dont know. That is what HR told is in class this morning. How it works is us(the 3/25 class) are remaining and going to shuttle. The 4/21 class(this monday) were all terminated. As far as CHQ/S5 goes, there will definitely be effects. The DEN guys are able to bid for displacements to other RW domiciles as well as a transfer to S5 as of right now. Also, all upgrade awards have been cancelled unless they already started class. It will be widespread at RAH. I can't help but wonder why they didn't plan better for this, I honestly am not in any way surprised we lost F9. Guess they had more faith in F9 than I did. Oh well though, glad the damage isn't worse, hope they will learn from their mistakes. Still glad im here.

I'm glad things worked out for you and that they were able to transfer you over to Shuttle. I'm in CMH on the RW side, so maybe I'll see you around! Things will work out and most expect hiring to resume by around end of summer. I know things can change in an instant (just look at yesterday to this morning), but I'm hoping for the best. Sorry you have to sit through indoc and systems again...the fact you have to go through systems again on the same airplne is a joke..thank the FAA for that one!

Best of luck

-Andy

[Dan208B]

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

I'm glad things worked out for you and that they were able to transfer you over to Shuttle. I'm in CMH on the RW side, so maybe I'll see you around! Things will work out and most expect hiring to resume by around end of summer. I know things can change in an instant (just look at yesterday to this morning), but I'm hoping for the best. Sorry you have to sit through indoc and systems again...the fact you have to go through systems again on the same airplne is a joke..thank the FAA for that one!

Best of luck

-Andy

Thanks for the kind words! I fully expected the F9 termination, just not... today haha. Anyways, im sure we'll be in CMH. You aren't kidding about the systems, especially on this airplane...