Delta Loss $6B

[B767Driver]

Here's another bright spot for the quarter. A $280M operating loss...which actually isn't the end of the world for a recessionary 1st quarter.

[Baronman]

On today's agenda......1. Approval of Bonuses for getting that NWA deal through...Let's say $20 Mill all around...and 2. In light of rising fuel costs, let's look into job cuts and renegotiation of labor contracts starting with the pilots....Have a nice weekend and see you out on the links.

[B767Driver]

Article in today's CVG newspaper has the DAL/NWA CEO's talking about the future of the industry. If fuel stays high...frequency goes away...and larger gage aircraft once or twice per day. Should take care of the congestion issue.

[mojo6911]

Who runs these companies? Seriously?

[Doug Taylor]

It's the accounting principle. It's like my house going down in value by $80K, then taking that $80K, subtracting it from my income and telling the IRS that my taxable income is only $30K! Geez, I wish the common guy could do stuff like that!

[JEP]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

It's the accounting principle. It's like my house going down in value by $80K, then taking that $80K, subtracting it from my income and telling the IRS that my taxable income is only $30K! Geez, I wish the common guy could do stuff like that!

you gots to change the name....


Taylor/Douglas LLC

to

Jetcareers Inc....

And your house becomes your true World Hdqrtrs....

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

It's the accounting principle. It's like my house going down in value by $80K, then taking that $80K, subtracting it from my income and telling the IRS that my taxable income is only $30K! Geez, I wish the common guy could do stuff like that!

I don't understand the high level finance stuff...and airlines always seem to do some fancy footwork in the finance department...but DAL for the last several years seems to take huge write-offs to rework the balance sheet. Possibly it had to do with reworking the balance sheet during bankruptcy and now in prep for a merger. ???

[kellwolf]

The bankruptcy emergence was based on stock being a certain price. Now, with gas prices soaring higher than an eagle in a thermal, no one wants to buy airline stock. Result of that is the stock price falls and falls hard. Now, the company is "devalued." What Delta has done is take the difference in what they projected they would be and their current value and termed it a "loss." Like Doug said, if you have a $160K house, an gang bangers move in, the neighborhood goes to hell, and the home value falls to $80K, you can't subtract that difference from your income for the year. High finance business world, you can make it look like you're in trouble by doing that, though. But, I guess as Tony says, it's still playing within the rules.....

[UPSpilot]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

Article in today's CVG newspaper has the DAL/NWA CEO's talking about the future of the industry. If fuel stays high...frequency goes away...and larger gage aircraft once or twice per day. Should take care of the congestion issue.

And the RJ/scope issue.

[970Flyer]

Hey Doug- Looks like that paper route might still be a possibility.

[N826AW]

Airlines were doing this left and right after 9/11 as they wrote down the value of airplanes in their fleet.

[GalaxyIFE]

OK, so Doug, do you still have the website for TruckMasters? I am thinking that'll be the new deal!

Oh wait...trucklines are having issues too with this cheap gas. Hmmmm....perhaps Little Ceasar's will have me back. Surely they don't remember firing my 20 years ago....would they???


OK, just a little

[wheelsup]

The only thing we, as pilots, have in our favor is that the air transportation industry is essential to the US. Perhaps the government will start to step in if things get too bad.

[GalaxyIFE]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

The only thing we, as pilots, have in our favor is that the air transportation industry is essential to the US. Perhaps the government will start to step in if things get too bad.

Yeah, and they are doing a good job with soaring fuel costs, sub-prime mortgages, health care, military modernization, taking care of veterans, saving the dollar that is worth spit....the list goes on.

[SmoothLanderJ]

Originally Posted by GalaxyIFE

Yeah, and they are doing a good job with soaring fuel costs, sub-prime mortgages, health care, military modernization, taking care of veterans, saving the dollar that is worth spit....the list goes on.

I totally agree. It really sucks right now.....

[surreal1221]

Perhaps a sell off of the wholly owned will occur.

Just a thought.

[PatrickCPS]

As much as I hate the idea of government involvement, the idea of re-regulation does start becoming attractive when looking at the current picture. However, as has been pointed out, the government doesn't seem too effective at fixing the other social issues this country is facing, so what makes anyone think they will do a better job wit the airlines?

I think the industry needs some form of oversight, who have entity is I have no idea.

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by PatrickCPS

As much as I hate the idea of government involvement, the idea of re-regulation does start becoming attractive when looking at the current picture. However, as has been pointed out, the government doesn't seem too effective at fixing the other social issues this country is facing, so what makes anyone think they will do a better job wit the airlines?

I believe government subsidies would come in to play.

[deadstick]

OK, let's say the government steps in. Then what? Can they lower the price of oil to less than $100? If ReRegulation is the answer, then then will the $200 fare go up to $500? The $600 last minute ticket for a business trip will turn into a $2000 tickets? How many people will be traveling? What would that do to commerce? Or the travel/entertainment industry? Would Disney World close because the family of 5 cannot afford 5 $700 tickets? Would they drive? If they were in MN, would the parnets have to take 2 weeks off in order to go there? What would happen at the small company if all the employees started taking 2 weeks off? What if families only took vacations once every five years because they became too expensive? What would that reduction in $$ through our economy do to it?

I'm not looking for flames or smart-a$$ remarks. Just thinking about "big picture" repercussions of government involvement.

Personally, I think the prices should have been higher for quite some time. I agree that pay for crews has been squeezed to the breaking point, and that there is little control over fuel expenses. So what is left? Aircraft lease? No room there. Mx? No way in heck. So what is left? Admin overhead? CSRs/rampers? Sounds like a "synergy" -- a benefit of mergers. You can only reduce that support staff so far before you start interrupting operations, like a plane full of pax with no bags.

So, if the "-" items are minimized, the only thing to do is find a way to increase the "+" ones. Several have started this already by charging for extra bags and services. Will the legacies end up operating like Skybus? I doubt it. That is the extreme. With expenses cut to the bone or not controllable (fuel), then they have to find other ways of increasing the numbers in the revenue column.


I'm not an economist and I didn't stay in a HolidayInn Express last night, either. I'm just trying to hang on for the longest 8 seconds in this career. I'm just getting ready to be sore and bruised for the next few years.

Best of luck, all.

Chicken Little -- out.

[PeanuckleCRJ]

<------ My avatar says everything that needs to be said about this.

[mrivc211]

It worked before when tickets to new york were $800 bucks, and it will work again. Sorry, but I ain't giving joe shmoe and his family a free ride at the expense of my career, as well as the other 100,000 fellow pilots.

[surreal1221]

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by deadstick

OK, let's say the government steps in. Then what? Can they lower the price of oil to less than $100? If ReRegulation is the answer, then then will the $200 fare go up to $500? The $600 last minute ticket for a business trip will turn into a $2000 tickets? How many people will be traveling? What would that do to commerce? Or the travel/entertainment industry? Would Disney World close because the family of 5 cannot afford 5 $700 tickets? Would they drive? If they were in MN, would the parnets have to take 2 weeks off in order to go there? What would happen at the small company if all the employees started taking 2 weeks off? What if families only took vacations once every five years because they became too expensive? What would that reduction in $$ through our economy do to it?

I'm not looking for flames or smart-a$$ remarks. Just thinking about "big picture" repercussions of government involvement.

Personally, I think the prices should have been higher for quite some time. I agree that pay for crews has been squeezed to the breaking point, and that there is little control over fuel expenses. So what is left? Aircraft lease? No room there. Mx? No way in heck. So what is left? Admin overhead? CSRs/rampers? Sounds like a "synergy" -- a benefit of mergers. You can only reduce that support staff so far before you start interrupting operations, like a plane full of pax with no bags.

So, if the "-" items are minimized, the only thing to do is find a way to increase the "+" ones. Several have started this already by charging for extra bags and services. Will the legacies end up operating like Skybus? I doubt it. That is the extreme. With expenses cut to the bone or not controllable (fuel), then they have to find other ways of increasing the numbers in the revenue column.


I'm not an economist and I didn't stay in a HolidayInn Express last night, either. I'm just trying to hang on for the longest 8 seconds in this career. I'm just getting ready to be sore and bruised for the next few years.

Best of luck, all.

Chicken Little -- out.

Like the Delta CEO alluded to this week....they will price the tickets to make money...it will be expensive to fly...tons of capacity goes away...hubs close...flying becomes a privilege for the elite, not a right given to everyone. I look for lots of change to the landscape.

[cfii2007]

Funny thing if all these losses resulted in CRJ's going away, flying going back to mainline, and turboprops making a return.

[970Flyer]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

Like the Delta CEO alluded to this week....they will price the tickets to make money...it will be expensive to fly...tons of capacity goes away...hubs close...flying becomes a privilege for the elite, not a right given to everyone. I look for lots of change to the landscape.

...and maybe that's the way it should be. I would never expect a company in any other industry to provide a service to me at a loss, but I wouldn't turn it down if they were offering.