In-Flight Fires

[Wm226]

Hello All:

I am doing a presentation on in-flight fires. The targeted audience are pilots. Any suggestions on what subtopics I can cover? Resources I may use? Anything would help.


Thanks!

[kellwolf]

What experience level are the pilots? Are they fresh PPL or airline guys?

Makes a difference. Talking about halon extinguishers and fire protection loops on a CRJ might glaze over some guy that only knows about a Cessna. Just like fighting an electrical fire and landing at the nearest grass strip might not be attention holding for an airline guy.

[frog_flyer]

Touch on Swissair 111

[Bandit_Driver]

Swiss Air 111 Website

http://www.swissair111.org/

You also may want to read this month's issue of Flying Magazine. There is a brief part in the "Jumpseat" column about smoke in the cabin and how the crew acted together and the flight never needed to divert.

You should definatley tailor the talk to the group at hand and what would be relevant to them.

[kellwolf]

Was it TWA 800 that had the fuel vapors in the tank go up?

[Wm226]

The pilots in my class are mostly Commercial and CFI/CFII/MEI rated with an average total flight time of about 300 hours.

[Bandit_Driver]

I would probably tailor the talk toward the small aircraft they fly and teach in and cover off field landings. You may also throw a couple of airline fires in for discussion and ask them WWYD questions about.

Swiss air 111 is a good one for that.

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Yes, Swissair 111 is a great example of "GET THE AIRPLANE ON THE GROUND". The crew of SWR111 didn't do that, and they died in a steep spiral because it is suspected that the first officer had his head plastered up to the side window trying to see out of it, resulting in a natural tendency to bank to the right.

[Airport7]

Maybe take a look at ARFF (aircraft rescue firefighting) equipment and requirements for airports (FAR Part 139 and ACs).

[Itchy]

IT is pretty debatable if 111 would have made it had they diverted immediately. At any rate, whether the FO was trying to look out the window and fly or not, the airplane was completely disconnected from its flight deck for the last minutes of the flight. I doubt it mattered where he was looking.

A lot of different aluminum alloys melt around 1100 degrees or so. If you think you are dealing with a real fire, I.E., flame you have to get it on the ground, perhaps doping the notion of a suitable airport. But over the years, I have delt with smoke in the cabin a couple times from avionics "letting the magic smoke out", a gryo burned up once, etc. While not innocent, electrical fires/ transistors burning up, etc, are usually contained in their respective box, and just smell bad. I sure would not want to be the guy who made an off field landing because a capacitor blew up on its board. Who knows, but the 111 crew may have dealt with a few of those also. It went from a little smoke to an uncontrolled mess with out much transition.

I was on a short final once, and had wiring short out and had a small piece of metal burn a hole in my sneaker. It was the power wire to the adf radio. Not a big deal, just an interesting little story to tell. If I was in a transport at 360, it would have scared the snot out of me.

[Maurus]

If you want to talk about how the NTSB goes about finding if an aircraft has had an in-flight fire you could always try to find Aircraft Accident Investigation by Richard H. Wood and Robert W. Sweginnis.

They have a lot of good information about in-flight fire post-accident investigation.

[Doug Taylor]

I know Bob Sweginnis personally! Man, talk about a blast from the past. Died in a midair a few years ago with another professor from ERAU PRC.

[Wm226]

Thanks for the responses so far!

On a related subject, does anyone know of the type of extinguishing agent that is being phased out? I have heard about this in the past, however, have forgot of the details - such as name of extinguishing agent and reasoning to why it is being phased out. Again, any resources - or anything else related to the subject- would be of great help!

[Itchy]

Google "halon".

[Maurus]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I know Bob Sweginnis personally! Man, talk about a blast from the past. Died in a midair a few years ago with another professor from ERAU PRC.

Sorry to hear that

[Wm226]

So Halons 1211 and 1301 are intended to be replaced by environmentally friendly agents - such as trifluoroiodomethane? And this is because of its non-toxicity?