Cross Country flight question.

[captainphil]

This is an embarrasing thing to ask at this point in my training,but i'm going to ask it anyway. After 4 cross country flights I am still having trouble with some of my flight planning on my Nav Log. Here is what I have questions on :
1) When I plan the night before the flight and the weather changes the day of my flight , do I still fly with the same information I put on my Nav log?
2) How do I find My True airspeed and RPM setting in the POH, I know how to interpolate but I mean taking the temperature from the metars and using the ISA which I don't understand.
3) When I use my flight computer to determine my Ground speed do I set the minature hole over 100 and than slide the mark I make with the pencil to my true airspeed?

Thanks for any help.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by captainphil

1) When I plan the night before the flight and the weather changes the day of my flight , do I still fly with the same information I put on my Nav log?

If you do, you may get lost, run out of fuel, or both. Best thing is to use an Excel spreadsheet for flight planning, then updating for the winds is easy. You can find a lot of these on the internet.

How do I find My True airspeed and RPM setting in the POH, I know how to interpolate but I mean taking the temperature from the metars and using the ISA which I don't understand.

Better to use the winds aloft forecast. The actual decrease in temperature with altitude will rarely be ISA.

When I use my flight computer to determine my Ground speed do I set the minature hole over 100 and than slide the mark I make with the pencil to my true airspeed?

That would be physically impossible. Or should be. You slide the TAS up and down (not rotate). The hole will end up wherever it ends up. It will show your GS.

[E6BAV8R]

1) When I plan the night before the flight and the weather changes the day of my flight , do I still fly with the same information I put on my Nav log?

The way I do it, and the way I teach it, is to have my students plan out all the airport information for the destinations as well as all the checkpoints and NAV information they can throw onto a Nav log. The day of the X-C is when they actually call FSS and get their WX and winds aloft and then compute all of their course headings, fuel, and time so it is accurate as possible.

I've never heard of CFI's telling their students to get the WX the day before the flight, I always do it on the day of the flight.

2) How do I find My True airspeed and RPM setting in the POH, I know how to interpolate but I mean taking the temperature from the metars and using the ISA which I don't understand.

Don't have a POH in front of me but ISA is ~2 degrees per 1,000 ft., if I am thinking of the right rate. Use that to get an estimate of the temp. at your cruise altitude and adjust accordingly. Also use the Winds and Temps Aloft forecast or grab the temp. from the FSS briefer.

3) When I use my flight computer to determine my Ground speed do I set the minature hole over 100 and than slide the mark I make with the pencil to my true airspeed?

Correct - the 'hole' will then read your GS after setting your pencil mark to the TAS line.

[unclenobby]

Originally Posted by captainphil

This is an embarrasing thing to ask at this point in my training,but i'm going to ask it anyway. After 4 cross country flights I am still having trouble with some of my flight planning on my Nav Log. Here is what I have questions on :
1) When I plan the night before the flight and the weather changes the day of my flight , do I still fly with the same information I put on my Nav log?
2) How do I find My True airspeed and RPM setting in the POH, I know how to interpolate but I mean taking the temperature from the metars and using the ISA which I don't understand.
3) When I use my flight computer to determine my Ground speed do I set the minature hole over 100 and than slide the mark I make with the pencil to my true airspeed?

Thanks for any help.

1: If winds change then you should change your plan. Depending on the change your flight plan could change dramatically - headings, GS etc. I made an excel flight plan that was easy to alter after the fact. Plan the route the night before - plug the numbers next morning.

2: All this info is in the cruise performance section of the POH. Use the winds aloft for your temp and then calc if this is standard, above or below (15 degrees at Sea level , drop of 2 degrees per 1,000 feet), then see performance section for impact.

3: Yes, set hole over 100. Rotate wind direction to under the true index - mark wind speed - rotate true course to under true index and move the slide to put your mark over your TAS - GS will be under the hole. This also gives you your wind correction angle, then correct for magnetic variance and compass deviation and you have your magnetic course.

Remember - for a given route in a given aircraft, the only variable for Mag Heading is the WCA. Hence I just plugged the new/current WCA on the excel sheet mentioned above (Var and Dev already calculated)

Also, winds may not be as advertised therefore you will have to adjust your plan enroute as necessary- therefore having easily indentifiable route and frequent checkpoints will keep you on course.

AOPA give you a free jepp flight planner that links to DUAT and calculates wind for you - might be a good way to check your work (not an easy out!)
DUAT also has a flight plan tool that calcs magnetic course if you link to the WX.

Good luck.

[unclenobby]

Wow, no one had posted when i started typing!! There are excel spreadsheets out there for planning? Never knew that, made mine from scratch!!

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by unclenobby

Wow, no one had posted when i started typing!! There are excel spreadsheets out there for planning? Never knew that, made mine from scratch!!

Really? Did you think that since Lotus 1-2-3 appeared about 25 years ago, you were the first to think of this?

BTW, I made mine from scratch, too. But that was more than 15 years ago. I finally stopped using it about two years ago because the added bells and whistles in both free and commercial products had much more than mine could offer me (even with the full national airport and navaid database I had in mine).

[MidlifeFlyer]

captainphil, I am going to make a crazy suggestion. Despite the prevalence of group ground schools, excellent DVD and online materials, and solid training books, cross country planning is one of those subjects that really merit a 1-on-1 ground session with your CFI.

Part of the reason is that one-on-one answer =your= questions. Learning calculations is probably one of the most variable of all student learning skills.

Another part is that no matter how thorough and complete your calculations, the bottom line is that the result is only a guestimate. Accordingly, there is a lot of variety in the way it's taught, with some CFIs insisting that you do every calculation to 3 decimal places all the way down to enough to get by on the knowledge a oral tests.

[unclenobby]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

Really? Did you think that since Lotus 1-2-3 appeared about 25 years ago, you were the first to think of this?

BTW, I made mine from scratch, too. But that was more than 15 years ago. I finally stopped using it about two years ago because the added bells and whistles in both free and commercial products had much more than mine could offer me (even with the full national airport and navaid database I had in mine).

15 years ago? No NWS website back then either I suppose, just had to lick your finger and stick it in the air, repeat every 1,000 ft to get winds aloft.......strange, always seemed to be a headwind once we got airborne back in those days!!!

[Matt13C]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

Really? Did you think that since Lotus 1-2-3 appeared about 25 years ago, you were the first to think of this?

BTW, I made mine from scratch, too. But that was more than 15 years ago. I finally stopped using it about two years ago because the added bells and whistles in both free and commercial products had much more than mine could offer me (even with the full national airport and navaid database I had in mine).

WHich free and commercial products do you, or anyone else, recommend? I do mine by hand/calculator, which is not that hard or time consuming and I actually enjoy it. But I am sure there will come a day when I just want it done and don't feel like doing each step.

[charlie1017]

DTC DUAT has a nice flight planner. I use it a lot to back up my nav log calculations. And it's free!

[unclenobby]

Originally Posted by Matt13C

WHich free and commercial products do you, or anyone else, recommend? I do mine by hand/calculator, which is not that hard or time consuming and I actually enjoy it. But I am sure there will come a day when I just want it done and don't feel like doing each step.

As mentioned above - AOPA real time flight planner powered by Jeppesen, you might have to be a member to get this, check out the AOPA website.
or - www.duat.com - free for all, just sign up.
Comparison
- You can file FP's on DUAT (not sure about AOPA)
- AOPA prints out the flight plan in kneeboard format, DUAT takes up the whole page (doesn't fit on the kneeboard)
- AOPA gives you a chart to plot the course (after selecting Dep and destination, you can change the course to suit your plan and add waypoints (don't have to be navaids) to your liking, on DUAT you just select the route and name waypoints)
- DUAT access to Wx is a better
- DUAT auto calculates TOC and TOD which is a nice feature, AOPA does not do this even though you put in the performance specs.

I'm sure others will have more to add, combination of these 2 tools works well for flight planning.

[Matt13C]

Originally Posted by unclenobby

As mentioned above - AOPA real time flight planner powered by Jeppesen, you might have to be a member to get this, check out the AOPA website.
or - www.duat.com - free for all, just sign up.
Comparison
- You can file FP's on DUAT (not sure about AOPA)
- AOPA prints out the flight plan in kneeboard format, DUAT takes up the whole page (doesn't fit on the kneeboard)
- AOPA gives you a chart to plot the course (after selecting Dep and destination, you can change the course to suit your plan and add waypoints (don't have to be navaids) to your liking, on DUAT you just select the route and name waypoints)
- DUAT access to Wx is a better
- DUAT auto calculates TOC and TOD which is a nice feature, AOPA does not do this even though you put in the performance specs.

I'm sure others will have more to add, combination of these 2 tools works well for flight planning.

Thanks! I am gonna look into those now.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by Matt13C

WHich free and commercial products do you, or anyone else, recommend? I do mine by hand/calculator, which is not that hard or time consuming and I actually enjoy it. But I am sure there will come a day when I just want it done and don't feel like doing each step.

What stage are you at right now? If you are a student pilot, it's nice to know about the online tools that plan you flight almost automatically, but you need to learn how to do it manually - just so you know how.

As mentioned, both DUAT providers (www.duat.com and www.duats.com) will calculate flight plans. If you're an AOPA member, the Jepp-produced flight planner adds visuals, but has the drawback of requiring you to download a component - nice if you travel with a laptop; not as nice if you have to plan a new route after diverting to a different airport for weather. www.fltplan.com is very popular with the corporate and 135 crowd. On the pay side, www.aeroplanner.com is a popular and effective tool.

On the software end, Seattle Avionics' Voyager, http://www.seattleavionics.com/default.aspx, has become very popular (there are free and pay flavors), although you may find it very slow to load, it's so loaded with stuff. One of the DUAT providers also has software available in both free and pay versions, http://www.duats.com/cirrus.shtml.

That's only a small selection of the stuff that's available out there.

[captainphil]

I'm nearing the end of my stage 2.

[UPSpilot]

The easiest thing to do is just have your F/E look the numbers up for you!

[GalaxyIFE]

Originally Posted by UPSpilot

The easiest thing to do is just have your F/E look the numbers up for you!

That's what I'm talking about..."let me see here, so the SMOE is..."

[fly4food84]

I cheat and use fltplan.com