Bummer. . .Too bad for the Customers.

[surreal1221]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24184456/

In the three decades since the airline industry was deregulated, the flying public has received a free ride, or at least close to it. Thanks to debilitating price wars among airlines seeking an edge over competitors, U.S. airfares have plunged more than 50 percent in real terms since 1978 — giving rise to $49 flights and turning a form of travel that once was the province of the wealthy into the great proletariat pastime.

But when the CEOs of Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines sealed their merger accord with a handshake on April 15, the moment probably marked the end of the era of cheap travel. In this new age, major airlines could achieve the critical mass needed to raise fares enough to start recouping some of the $29 billion in losses they've suffered since 2001.

Bummer customers, but your days of cheap fares are numbered. You want an industry to survive, you're going to pay what it actually costs (or closer to it).

Discuss.

[Matt13C]

Sounds good. It may take me longer to get a job but maybe now pilots salaries will go back up.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by Matt13C

Sounds good. It may take me longer to get a job but maybe now pilots salaries will go back up.

Don't hold your breath.

[wheelsup]

I'd be happier with a much more stable industry, then work on pilot pay. If alternative fuel can become readily available this would also help considerably.

[Bigey]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

I'd be happier with a much more stable industry, then work on pilot pay. If alternative fuel can become readily available this would also help considerably.

I think they should just raise the fares, plain and simple. I even broke the numbers down with capacity vs. fare.

Make flying nearly impossible for someone my age to be able to afford...

Check this, me and some buddies were looking out to go to texas, and it was CHEAPER to fly....then to drive! And we're just talking about gas for the truck!

[wheelsup]

"Just raise fares" damn you guys should call the CEO's of CAL, UAL, DAL, NWA, US Air, Spirit, Allegiant, etc. and tell them this. Because they apparently haven't figured it out yet!!

(yes the above was sarcasm)

Now for a non sarcastic comment:

Don't you think the CEO's KNOW they NEED to raise fares?

[Doug Taylor]

Well, when there's the "Reporter on the street" asking the general public questions about high gasoline prices (well, really low dollar valuation buying over-speculated, slightly more expensive oil) and you get statements like "It's too expensive to drive, so we're just going to fly" that should be a wakeup call.

I crap you not! (Would I crap you? )

[tonyw]

Then why don't they have the balls to do it?

They say they can't, and then they end up filing for bankruptcy because they have to hold the line on fares.

Know what the definition of insanity is?

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by tonyw

Then why don't they have the balls to do it?

They do, and have been. Some stick, some don't. Here's why:



All things considered equal, pax will buy the cheapest ticket possible. I would too.

[surreal1221]

Let's also recognize (in that example) that AA is really trying to recover customers after the past month's occurances and media exposure.

Of course they're going to be WELL under everyone else right now.

[wheelsup]

My guess is because that flight goes from one ex-AA hub to a current AA hub (although you didn't know that just by looking at it).

But even if what you said is correct, you admit (indirectly) that you realize that simply raising the fare is not the answer. It's a balancing act in trying to maximize revenue. If AA sold three tickets on their plane in the above scenario for $50,000 each they'd certainly make a bundle of money - the trick is unless they have some amazing marketing and salesmen, that ain't gonna do that .

[surreal1221]

Now now. . .I didn't indirectly do anything.

Just wanted to emphasize the fact that AA is perhaps struggling to try to grasp some sort of market share that was lost over the past month or so.

But yes, I have no idea what city pairing that is, or the frequency of available flights for each of those companies.

Nevertheless, simply raising fares - across the board - will bring a larger revenue.

A + B = C

A + 15 + B = C+15.

[Matt13C]

Do airlines still increase fares as the travel date gets closer? I just looked for a ticket from PHL to FLG. The difference from flying Friday to flying in September is only $100. Maybe I am mistaken but I remember when I was younger if you tried to book a seat a few days before you would pay $300-$1000 more than you would if you booked early.

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Don't hold your breath.

I am still new to the world of flying, currently working on my private, don't crush my dreams already ha ha .

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Nevertheless, simply raising fares - across the board - will bring a larger revenue.

A + B = C

A + 15 + B = C+15.

So with your example. A + 1,000 + B = C+1,000.

That sounds good. Or maybe we should make it:

A + 1,000,000 + B = C+1,000,000.

Even better! Surreal, why don't the airlines just raise fares by $1,000,000 extra per ticket! Then they'd be raking in the dough! Quick, call the CEO's.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Matt13C

Do airlines still increase fares as the travel date gets closer? I just looked for a ticket from PHL to FLG. The difference from flying Friday to flying in September is only $100. Maybe I am mistaken but I remember when I was younger if you tried to book a seat a few days before you would pay $300-$1000 more than you would if you booked early.

I think it depends. I don't know anything about yield management but I would think that would factor into the decision. I bet if the plane was full on Friday you'd be paying a heck of a lot more than $100 extra.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

So with your example. A + 1,000 + B = C+1,000.

That sounds good. Or maybe we should make it:

A + 1,000,000 + B = C+1,000,000.

Even better! Surreal, why don't the airlines just raise fares by $1,000,000 extra per ticket! Then they'd be raking in the dough! Quick, call the CEO's.

You call them. . .

You're the one with these outrageous price increases.

Something more subtle, 10-15, or even 50-100 per route might have more of an impact of actually still putting warm bodies into the seats as opposed to $1,000 or $1,000,000 of an increase.

But of course, you're being sarcastic and over exaggerating for theatrical purposes.

[mpenguin1]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24184456/

Bummer customers, but your days of cheap fares are numbered. You want an industry to survive, you're going to pay what it actually costs (or closer to it).

Discuss.

Good, I just hope the level of service matches the new airfare prices. While they are raising prices, I hope they can remove some seats to improve the seat pitch

I don't need any meal, just give me a seat so that I can stretch my legs a little

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Something more subtle, 10-15, or even 50-100 per route might have more of an impact of actually still putting warm bodies into the seats as opposed to $1,000 or $1,000,000 of an increase.

But of course, you're being sarcastic and over exaggerating for theatrical purposes.

Absolutely. But I am demonstrating that there is a point at which further increases will have a negative impact on revenue. Since you don't work in yield management you have no idea if $15 extra will reduce revenue. It just might. That's why the people who work in yield management work there, and you fly the plane . It's their job to figure this stuff out - that's what the airlines pay them for.

[mpenguin1]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

They do, and have been. Some stick, some don't. Here's why:



All things considered equal, pax will buy the cheapest ticket possible. I would too.

It depends, two of the most popular reasons for buying tickets are price & mileage points.......

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by Matt13C

I am still new to the world of flying, currently working on my private, don't crush my dreams already ha ha .

Well, come into the industry after learning a lot of issues from this very forum will put you in a great position to truly understand what can and will happen to you through your aviation career, the good, the bad, and the absolutely ridiculous.

Don't expect to make any long term plans either, just forget the ability to plan anything - until you're in the top 50% of any seniority list, but even then, don't hold your breath.

Also, do not expect any sort of amazing pay rates again unless you are willing to fight HARD to emphasize the reasons WHY you (and your fellow pilots. . .) require those rates. Management wouldn't have it any other way.

Lastly, please don't say you'll do my job (or any other pilot's job) for less than they will do it.

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

All things considered equal, pax will buy the cheapest ticket possible. I would too.

But all things are not equal. There are a host of different things that are not the same.

I pay more to fly when I want to so that I can do things instead of just letting the airline tell me what to do.

If I'm traveling for business, it's not my money, and I've got to be there when I have to and I need to have flexibility to extend my stay if needed.

If I'm traveling on my own, then I want to spend more time enjoying the place I've flown instead of sitting at the airport.

I realize I am not typical but there are a lot of people like me. And I think it'd be smart for airlines to go after folks like me who aren't willing to waste my vacation time sitting in an airport so we can save $10 each way.

[Matt13C]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Well, come into the industry after learning a lot of issues from this very forum will put you in a great position to truly understand what can and will happen to you through your aviation career, the good, the bad, and the absolutely ridiculous.

Don't expect to make any long term plans either, just forget the ability to plan anything - until you're in the top 50% of any seniority list, but even then, don't hold your breath.

Also, do not expect any sort of amazing pay rates again unless you are willing to fight HARD to emphasize the reasons WHY you (and your fellow pilots. . .) require those rates. Management wouldn't have it any other way.

Lastly, please don't say you'll do my job (or any other pilot's job) for less than they will do it.

Yeah, I have thought long and hard about being a pilot. I have read a good amount of the testimonials on the home page and many other "life of a pilot" posts. I think I have a good understanding of what I am getting into.

As for the willingness to fight for what I want, you do not need to worry. I stand up for what I believe in and do not care who is in my way. My mother is a union rep for a teachers union and I always pick her brain on ways to get management to see things her way. Hopefully one day I will climb the ranks of a seniority list and be nominated to be a union rep. I would like nothing more than to reverse the trend of pilot wage/benefit cuts.

I also would never do a job for less than the going rate. I know how expensive it is to get into this industry, I am not going to take food out of my own mouth for a job and will not do that to a fellow pilot. Yes, I love to fly, but when it comes to work I do not let people walk all over me. I take pride in my work ethic and in turn I expected to be treated fairly.

Thanks for looking out though.

[surreal1221]

Most excellent, now also do not spend more than 35k on your flight training post the Private level.

Best of luck, you're the future of JC and the profession.

[DeltaAVL]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

They do, and have been. Some stick, some don't. Here's why:



All things considered equal, pax will buy the cheapest ticket possible. I would too.

I think the bigger question is this: What flight is that?

I didn't know there was a route that AA, DL, US, and UA all flew...

[mpenguin1]

Originally Posted by DeltaAVL

I think the bigger question is this: What flight is that?

I didn't know there was a route that AA, DL, US, and UA all flew...

Well, I know that they all fly JFK-LAX, I would imagine there are other flights that they all fly......