Nothing personal, just needs to be done...

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

If that happened here, worst case scenario with Seggy's case is you get called into the CP's office and he tries to keep a straight face as he says not to do it again.

And what happens if he does it again?

[JEP]

some pranks from the Navy onboard the ship in that professional situation:

go to supply and get:

batteries for the sound powered phone.
50 ft of waterline
an HT punch

mail buoy watch.......


H46 chime in..........

You have to understand that when someone goes to supply asking for this, they are sent to dept. A, and then Dept A, sends hem to Dept B, and so on and so on......until they figure it out.

The HT punch is the one you don't want. You will end up going to the hole and an Hull Technician will end up punching you.....

Good Times by ALL

[tonyw]

When someone gets hurt, it's not funny anymore.

If you trust someone to fly a $30 million airplane, you ought to be able to trust them to know where the line is drawn when it comes to hazing.

As long as it's all in good fun and nobody gets hurt, it's all good.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

Maybe, but where does it end??? Why should it be tolerated? Has anyone been to Harassment training?

Like I said, I knew you wouldn't understand my position.

Yep. Been to harassment training at 6 different companies. One of which was actually yesterday. This wasn't harassment.

[MQAAord]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

So "hazing" is ok??

The airline hazing I was exposed to, yes. I'm not talking about hazing being okay in a broad, all-encompassing aspect, but I'm talking specifically about the airline hazing I experienced myself at BOTH MQ and AA.

Why is that crossing a line? What about putting panties or condoms in their luggage?

I know guys won't understand where I am coming from, and I am ok with some fun, but not at the expense of someone I would consider on my team. You can lighten a mood in ALOT of other ways.

Taking a dump in someone's kit bag is not innocent new-hire hazing. That is a deliberate act of malice.

In my experience, new-hire hazing had to follow these rules:
-No one could be physically hurt
-No property (either the company's or an employees) could be damaged
-No humiliation could result. This includes making the person look like a fool in front of passengers, or doing something that could cause them harm at home (like your examples of the underwear or condoms)

I myself was put in an overhead bin on an ATR. Several new-hire pilots were scared ####-less by F/As hiding in OHBs while other F/As asked for the new pilot's help in getting a "stuck" bin open. When the pilot got the bin open (with no effort, of course) the F/A inside would shout BOO!

Nobody hurt, nothing damaged, no one humiliated. All in good fun. Those were the keys.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by JEP

some pranks from the Navy onboard the ship in that professional situation:

go to supply and get:

batteries for the sound powered phone.
50 ft of waterline
an HT punch

mail buoy watch.......

Go get some flight line. We need some prop wash. Yeah, that poor new ramper was gone for a whole afternoon bouncing from the closet at SWA, to Delta, to AirTran, to Spirit, to jetBlue, across the airport to United. I think he finally figured it out when Continental gave him blank stares.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Yep. Been to harassment training at 6 different companies. One of which was actually yesterday. This wasn't harassment.

Funny, in the ones that I have been too this would be considered disturbing, and potentially effect an employee in the work.

Harassment refers to a wide spectrum of offensive behavior. When the term is used in a legal sense it refers to behaviors that are found threatening or disturbing.

[Hernandezcfi]

Really...this kind of humor makes peoples day man! If not for a little workplace humor, we would all just drone around looking like its taxi time at JFK during rush hour in a snow storm!

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

Funny, in the ones that I have been too this would be considered disturbing, and potentially effect an employee in the work.

Harassment refers to a wide spectrum of offensive behavior. When the term is used in a legal sense it refers to behaviors that are found threatening or disturbing.

I hate the Yankees. Don't bring a Yankees coffee mug to work. That's harassment.

Is that going too far?


When was the FO threatened? What was so disturbing? If the guy was knocked off his rocker by that, he doesn't belong in a 121 flight deck. Sorry, but that's the plane honest truth.

[MQAAord]

If Seggy had tried to make the other guy drink it, now I could see that as being a bit disturbing. But he was drinking it himself!

Sad thing is, I actually thought about what I would do if it was me picking up in the cabin like that...... I'd have just put the bottle in the garbage bag and kept going. I've picked up far, far worse things in airplane cabins over the years! (Don't ask. Really.)

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

If Seggy had tried to make the other guy drink it, now I could see that as being a bit disturbing. But he was drinking it himself!

What if I did consider it disturbing? That doesn't matter?

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

What if I did consider it disturbing? That doesn't matter?

Fo: "Hey, man. Seriously. That was pretty F'ed up, and it made me feel pretty uncomfortable."
CA: "Yeah, okay. Maybe it went a little too far. We cool?"
FO: "Sure, no problem.....Where were we flying again?"

CRM, It's not just for flight deck duties. If you've got a problem, speak the F up. Don't start talking litigation. 'Cause the first thing THEY'RE gonna ask is "Well, did you say something?"

Now, if you've spoken your mind and it continues, that's different. But people aren't mind readers. The other option is to do nothing but your job and only speak using company call outs.

[Ian J]

Perhaps this is why regional airlining is a younger person's game?

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Fo: "Hey, man. Seriously. That was pretty F'ed up, and it made me feel pretty uncomfortable."
CA: "Yeah, okay. Maybe it went a little too far. We cool?"
FO: "No, I not sure you are fit to fly today, maybe I'm new, but maybe we should make that call now."

CRM, It's not just for flight deck duties. If you've got a problem, speak the F up. Don't start talking litigation. 'Cause the first thing THEY'RE gonna ask is "Well, did you say something?"

Now, if you've spoken your mind and it continues, that's different. But people aren't mind readers. The other option is to do nothing but your job and only speak using company call outs.

What if it was like above? I also understand the 2 strike thought process. So its ok to feel up a co-worker the first time right?

CA: Feels up FO
FO: Slaps, or something better to CA
CA: "Yeah, okay. Maybe it went a little too far. We cool?"
FO: "Sure, no problem.....Where were we flying again?"

There are better ways to build teamwork among groups.....even pilots.

[wayway8]

These posts give me something to look forward to (in addition to the awesome salary as a first year FO).

[Baradium]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

Funny, in the ones that I have been too this would be considered disturbing, and potentially effect an employee in the work.

Harassment refers to a wide spectrum of offensive behavior. When the term is used in a legal sense it refers to behaviors that are found threatening or disturbing.

Come on man, this was really mellow. When I was a 1900 f/o, I had to pick up much worse than that.

And right to not be harrassed is NOT a right to not be offended. You're confusing different things here. I could say I'm offended by your screen name. Are you going to change it because one person doesn't particularly like it?

This was a good natured prank that did not affect anyone's work performance.

Different companies have different cultures. With many companies this is fine as long as you can act professional when it's time for it.

This was what amounted to "down time." It wasn't anything the guy couldn't be exposed to just in his normal job description.

[Ian J]

Tracy, I bet if you surveyed 100 regional pilots 99 of them would think this prank is acceptable and funny.

Not sure why you are arguing it this hard - you're kind of whizzing in Seggy's cornflakes, man.

[Seggy]

Actually the guy is older than I am in his early 30s, career changer.

Talk to an 'old school' ex Pan Am, Braniff, Eastern, TWA, etc. pilot the only thing that would be 'High School' would be the level of the prank. They used to send their buddies bags to different continents.

[MQAAord]

Originally Posted by Ian J

Perhaps this is why regional airlining is a younger person's game?

Oh, this is NOT limited to regionals!

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by Seggy

Actually the guy is older than I am in his early 30s, career changer.

Originally Posted by MQAAord

Oh, this is NOT limited to regionals!

That's not really what I meant.

I'm all for good pranks at any age, guys. Hats off to Segs for making it creative!

[Qgar]

Oh man, Seggy...you are EVIL. Pure evil genius, that is! Thanks for the heads up...I'll be paying close attention to you when you come over to the Q.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by Baradium

I could say I'm offended by your screen name. Are you going to change it because one person doesn't particularly like it?

I seem to remember people being offended by avitars and them being changed....

You open a door to discuss what you have done to a fellow crewperson and then comment that it goes in a different direction because a person brings up the fact that it might not be right. Kinda like letting someone else use your screenname to post a personal attack against a user even though you might or might not agree with it.

I'll drop out of this thread then, thank you for your professionalism in the industry.

[Capt. Caucasian]

Til the day my Dad retired as an airline pilot his nickname was "Scrap Iron". His first gig in the biz was DC-8 FE in the mid-'70s. On his first trip he noticed that his flight kit was getting really heavy over the course of a few days. This was back in the day before rollaboards so he had to carry a suitcase and flight kit - no wheels. Anyway, my Dad noticed that the Captain and FO didn't seem to have a problem carrying their luggage around so he better not complain.

Well, his bags just seemed like they were getting really heavy. He knew he was a young, ####-hot new airline pilot and there was no way he could be loosing his strength. So, finally after flying this trip the Captain and FO told him that they had been sneaking in steel plates that were shaped to fit perfectly into the bottom of a flight kit. Every day they would add another plate.

Next time, I'll tell the story about the time someone sewed the sleeves together on his uniform jacket.

Or, how I went an entire trip being called "Fresh Meat" by all the FAs.

Or, the time we convinced some new-hire FAs that the ACARS printer was actually an ATM.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

I seem to remember people being offended by avitars and them being changed....

You open a door to discuss what you have done to a fellow crewperson and then comment that it goes in a different direction because a person brings up the fact that it might not be right. Kinda like letting someone else use your screenname to post a personal attack against a user even though you might or might not agree with it.

I'll drop out of this thread then, thank you for your professionalism in the industry.

Is this really Tracy? It doesn't sound like you.

Seriously. Did someone get a hold of your screen name?

[rjmore]

If this is all it takes to get someone riled up and start talking about lawyers, they aren't going to get very far in this business. People are very capable of making the distinction between grabbing a woman and playing a joke on a newb.

ComplexHiAv8r, you are talking an awful lot about an industry you aren't even in yet. Frankly, I'm offended by your assumptions about it.