Overbooking Flights...

[MusketeerMan]

Airways has got to be the most aggressive at it and it's annoying at times. Having to take delays so the gate agents can figure out how to get a volunteer on another flight and who they can get on... How much are other airlines overbooking? Is there a "standard" # that an airline will overbook?

[MusketeerMan]

Whoops...no announcement here!!! Mod...move this to General Topics...

[Polar742]

On US Express, especially out of PHL, it will never get better.

EVER.


Sorry. Just leave the APU running, grab a coke and chill. Once the door is shut, drop the brake just long enough to start the time, and enjoy the "Uh, 3366, we only have 1 towbar today, and it's on the other side. They'll be there as quick as they can."

Everytime I flew through PHL, I looked at it as my personal ATM.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

Whoops...no announcement here!!! Mod...move this to General Topics...

"Please?"

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

"Please?"

Hey come on now...wasn't being bossy...was shying away in a corner for being a bonehead...

[Doug Taylor]

No worries, mate!

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

No worries, mate!

THANK YOU for moving the thread.

[tonyw]

If airlines didn't overbook, you'd see the fares go up, and then Aunt Bessie would be whining because she couldn't afford to go home for Christmas.

It's part of the deal. Want lower prices? Then deal with overbooking. If you don't want overbooking, then be ready to pay up.

[youngflyer]

Originally Posted by Polar742

On US Express, especially out of PHL, it will never get better.

EVER.


Sorry. Just leave the APU running, grab a coke and chill. Once the door is shut, drop the brake just long enough to start the time, and enjoy the "Uh, 3366, we only have 1 towbar today, and it's on the other side. They'll be there as quick as they can."

Everytime I flew through PHL, I looked at it as my personal ATM.

Haha. Nice

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by tonyw

If airlines didn't overbook, you'd see the fares go up, and then Aunt Bessie would be whining because she couldn't afford to go home for Christmas.

It's part of the deal. Want lower prices? Then deal with overbooking. If you don't want overbooking, then be ready to pay up.

Either that, or don't show for flight and your ticket is WORTHLESS. No change fees, etc. It would make non-rev travel easier.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

Airways has got to be the most aggressive at it and it's annoying at times. Having to take delays so the gate agents can figure out how to get a volunteer on another flight and who they can get on... How much are other airlines overbooking? Is there a "standard" # that an airline will overbook?

All airlines overbook just to cover for the people that don't show. There is no standard though. It varies from day of the week, time of the day, and destination. I know when I was at NWA we had access to that information and it was interesting to see the different figures.

It is not too hard to figure out which flights get over booked. People figure it out, buy a fully refundable ticket, and then go to the airport and wait for the call to be bumped for compensation. Make some free ticket money....

[Polar742]

Look for a book called "Hard Landings". I bought it on a whim one time. Quick and easy read. A fairly balanced view (my perspective) on why the airlines are the jokes that they are today.

Overbooking comes from load management, which comes from SABRE, which of course comes from AMR....

Good read for all those in the pax business or want to fly for them...

[falconvalley]

Originally Posted by tonyw

If airlines didn't overbook, you'd see the fares go up, and then Aunt Bessie would be whining because she couldn't afford to go home for Christmas.

It's part of the deal. Want lower prices? Then deal with overbooking. If you don't want overbooking, then be ready to pay up.

If I can afford a plane ticket, I buy it. I expect to not be denied boarding because there aren't enough seats. If I decide I can't afford it or that it's too expensive, I find another way to travel. I would never want to save $100 bucks at someone elses expense. The average person doesn't consider buying a plane ticket a gamble in that way. That's why no matter how many times the philosophy is explained to me, I just don't get it. It's supposed to make everybody a winner. The airline makes more money, we get lower ticket prices, but there's still someone inconvienced and it doesn't matter because it's only a small handful of people...

[slayer]

If I remember correctly, when I worked for Mesaba a lot of it had to do with revenue management and trying to get as much out of every flight they could. They don't take into account weather, etc and, as stated earlier, they figure no shows into the equation as well. I also had a supervisor tell the station that "most" (I don't remember the %) people do not use their free ticket/credit voucher anyways, so mgt didn't see it as a bad thing to give them out.

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by falconvalley

If I can afford a plane ticket, I buy it. I expect to not be denied boarding because there aren't enough seats. If I decide I can't afford it or that it's too expensive, I find another way to travel. I would never want to save $100 bucks at someone elses expense. The average person doesn't consider buying a plane ticket a gamble in that way. That's why no matter how many times the philosophy is explained to me, I just don't get it. It's supposed to make everybody a winner. The airline makes more money, we get lower ticket prices, but there's still someone inconvienced and it doesn't matter because it's only a small handful of people...

I think the airlines just want to be nice guy oh so much. So much so that it annoys the H-E-double hockey sticks out of everyone and makes absolutely no sense I get the russian roulette feel when I buy a ticket.

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by falconvalley

If I can afford a plane ticket, I buy it. I expect to not be denied boarding because there aren't enough seats. If I decide I can't afford it or that it's too expensive, I find another way to travel

Well, you're not your typical traveler. I know people who whine and complain about having to pay $500 for a roundtrip transcon ticket.

Greyhound charges more.

And those people who whine and complain about the $500 ticket will bitch and moan even more if the ticket price is $600, $700, $800.

[jon1424]

I have a bunch of friends in our yield management dept (the people who are responsible for opening and closing seats) and after a ton of explanation I still don't know how the heck they come to their conclusions. There's some algorithm out there that takes everything into account and spits out a number. I love when they go to the airport that they tell the agents they work in "marketing". If the gate agents find out they're in yield they start giving them the "are you guys ever going to stop overbooking PHX-SNA!?!" treatment.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

Having to take delays so the gate agents can figure out how to get a volunteer on another flight and who they can get on...

That's mostly a problem because of SHARES. When we still used SABRE it took about half the time to accommodated oversells. But, SHARES apparently is SO much cheaper that the geniuses in The Sandbox couldn't turn it down. Nevermind that fact that we are over 14 months post switch over and the system still can't do simple things like display upflight information and doesn't recognize about 1/2 of the airports in Europe.

Originally Posted by Polar742

On US Express, especially out of PHL, it will never get better.

I really didn't think it was possible, but the F Gates have improved a bit. It's *almost* normal now to taxi in and not have to stop to wait for a ramper. Normally the bags are on the jetway within a few minutes, and often times there is in fact a push crew when you want to leave.

[N826AW]

Originally Posted by jon1424

I have a bunch of friends in our yield management dept (the people who are responsible for opening and closing seats) and after a ton of explanation I still don't know how the heck they come to their conclusions. There's some algorithm out there that takes everything into account and spits out a number. I love when they go to the airport that they tell the agents they work in "marketing". If the gate agents find out they're in yield they start giving them the "are you guys ever going to stop overbooking PHX-SNA!?!" treatment.

A friend of mine works in yield management and does the same thing. He won't fly out of a handful of his markets because he thinks they have his picture on a wanted sign.

But yeah they use all kinds of models to determine the no show factor. More often than not they're right. It's just the times when they are wrong always seems to be the worst. You would be blown away at the amount of revenue no-show pax generates. Same thing with hotels. My dad was a CFO for a hotel company. Their no-show rental revenue was staggering.

[jon1424]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

That's mostly a problem because of SHARES. When we still used SABRE it took about half the time to accommodated oversells. But, SHARES apparently is SO much cheaper that the geniuses in The Sandbox couldn't turn it down. Nevermind that fact that we are over 14 months post switch over and the system still can't do simple things like display upflight information and doesn't recognize about 1/2 of the airports in Europe.

Amen to that. I remember the day when I had to stop using SABRE. It was the absolute worst. It is unbelieveable we still do not have the ability to see the upflight information. I'm used to QIK/SHARES now but I'd go back to SABRE in a heartbeat.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by falconvalley

If I can afford a plane ticket, I buy it. I expect to not be denied boarding because there aren't enough seats. If I decide I can't afford it or that it's too expensive, I find another way to travel. I would never want to save $100 bucks at someone elses expense. The average person doesn't consider buying a plane ticket a gamble in that way. That's why no matter how many times the philosophy is explained to me, I just don't get it. It's supposed to make everybody a winner. The airline makes more money, we get lower ticket prices, but there's still someone inconvienced and it doesn't matter because it's only a small handful of people...

MOST of the time, someone volunteers their seat, so in a way, they aren't inconvenienced, because they are willing to give up their seat. Obviously they aren't in too big of a hurry, and can go on a later flight. Anytime I have ever worked the gate for an overbooked flight, I've never had a problem getting someone to volunteer their seat.

I don't know how often it happens, because I've never had a problem getting a volunteer, but the real issue/fight starts, when you have to involuntarily remove someone.

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

Airways has got to be the most aggressive at it and it's annoying at times. Having to take delays so the gate agents can figure out how to get a volunteer on another flight and who they can get on... How much are other airlines overbooking? Is there a "standard" # that an airline will overbook?

Hopefully management is looking at these delays and understanding that they might want to start putting a mainline E-190/A319 back on the route rather than an outsourced contract feed carrier.

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by Seggy

Hopefully management is looking at these delays and understanding that they might want to start putting a mainline E-190/A319 back on the route rather than an outsourced contract feed carrier.

Nah...won't happen. Good idea though.

[Scandinavian13]

Originally Posted by Polar742

Look for a book called "Hard Landings". I bought it on a whim one time. Quick and easy read. A fairly balanced view (my perspective) on why the airlines are the jokes that they are today.

Overbooking comes from load management, which comes from SABRE, which of course comes from AMR....

Good read for all those in the pax business or want to fly for them...

Agreed. Very good book for pretty much anyone who posts here. I have a list of others as well, if anyone's up for a good read (related to flying, of course).

[skidz]

The air travel is just becoming more frequent thanks to the cheapo tickets and the flights are losing money unles each seat brings a revenue. Scheduling is becoming more complicated than ever so I kind of understand the need for over booking. I think they figure there are other flights so if they bump somebody they will give them a seat on the next flight. It is totally unfair to the passengers though if the flight is the last one for the day or time sensitive and someone got the wedding or important meeting to attend or something. And it's only going to get worse. I bet sooner or later they'll come up with extra fees that people can pay to make sure they will in fact end up on that flight so the airlines have even less regrets bumping someone five minutes before departure and, in the process, maybe even make some more money.