Wings Program

[MikeOH58]

I was wondering how everyone felt about the FAA Wings program?

Tonight I went for my first time, particularly because the keynote was the DE who'm i've done 4 out of my 5 checkrides with, and one of my aviation mentors, and I also wanted to just check it out and learn a thing or two. There was a large audience tonight. A lot bigger than usual from what i'm told. About 70 people? The enormous turn out was definately for the keynote, who is extremely well known and respected in the aviation community in this area...Anyways, for the most part the majority of the people were there to learn..But there was a good amount who just made me say WTF? Theres guys trying to talk as much as possible, and finish sentences for the speaker! It blew my mind...So you fly pipers maybe 60 hours a year? Big freaking deal. Stop trying to act like you know more than the 30,000+ former cheif pilot who is trying to give a safety seminar. It just really pissed me off and took away from the whole experience from me. From what i'm told, this happens on a regular basis at these programs...Not the best way to build or salvage a reputation if you ask me.....Anyways, it really opened my eyes to some of the people who are out there flying airplanes with us. Having flown for a decade and maybe 1,500 hours and having the attitude you are Gods gift to aviation and you know it all just plain scares me. I wont be suprised to read about these guys in an accident report sooner or later because of their attitude.

Anyways, anyone else have any experiences like this? I think its a good program and has a lot of great information to give out, but i'm apprehensive about ever returning, at least to this chapter, because of the loudmouths who cant sit back and shut up, they just take a lot of the experience away from me.

[phoenix 23684]

I like the program, specially when I was just doing fun flying. I'm at level 2. It's a good way to keep up with safety, think how much you can forget in two years, plus if you get into an incident it may help you out. At least was told that by one of the guys at FSDO.
I'm sure some may think it's not enough with validity but at least it's more than nothing, plus in 20 years you can have all the little wings as souvenirs of your flying years.

By the way, you can do some of the on-line seminars bypassing some of the boring talkers/interrupters.

[aloft]

The Wings program was just overhauled pretty radically, anybody know the details? I know it doesn't much resemble the old program.

[msmspilot]

Originally Posted by aloft

The Wings program was just overhauled pretty radically, anybody know the details? I know it doesn't much resemble the old program.

there's an online thing (faasafety.gov) that keeps track of you fulfilling the requirements. Instead of doing 3 flight hours, you have to meet certain flight requirements based on the PTS standards. If it takes you 1.5 to meet all the requirements, that's all the flying you have to do. If it takes 10 hrs, you have to do that. Then you have to do the ground requirements which can mostly be met with online programs the FAA has through the faasafety.gov website. A new certificate or rating still counts for a LOT on this program, and should give you a whole level (at least the basic or advanced).

It seems to be a good overhaul of the program. One downside (IMO) is that you no longer get the wings pin. You get a certificate that you can download and print if you want to.

I just completed the "Basic" level, and the requirements were largely out of the Private Pilot PTS even though I'm a CFII, multiengine commercial. For the Advanced or Master levels, the requirements start coming out of the Commercial and ATP PTS even for private pilots.

[msmspilot]

Originally Posted by phoenix 23684

I like the program, specially when I was just doing fun flying. I'm at level 2. It's a good way to keep up with safety, think how much you can forget in two years, plus if you get into an incident it may help you out. At least was told that by one of the guys at FSDO.
I'm sure some may think it's not enough with validity but at least it's more than nothing, plus in 20 years you can have all the little wings as souvenirs of your flying years.

By the way, you can do some of the on-line seminars bypassing some of the boring talkers/interrupters.

Sorry, should have "multi-quoted".

First, the "second level" no longer exists with the new system.

Second, we were told at a recent FAA safety meeting that unless you are participating in WINGS or an equivalent (I think it was "industry safety program") you cannot get any leniency in a violation action. They showed us the rubric they have to follow if there's an incident/violation. Specifically stated that they can't do it unless you're involved in a safety program.

[phoenix 23684]

Originally Posted by msmspilot

Sorry, should have "multi-quoted".

First, the "second level" no longer exists with the new system.

Second, we were told at a recent FAA safety meeting that unless you are participating in WINGS or an equivalent (I think it was "industry safety program") you cannot get any leniency in a violation action. They showed us the rubric they have to follow if there's an incident/violation. Specifically stated that they can't do it unless you're involved in a safety program.

How thanks for that input, didn't realize the whole program was re-done. I liked the little wings, that's a shame. Also, I always keep a NASA form in my flight bag.

[msmspilot]

Originally Posted by phoenix 23684

How thanks for that input, didn't realize the whole program was re-done. I liked the little wings, that's a shame. Also, I always keep a NASA form in my flight bag.

Yeah, I liked the little wings too. One of the local FAA guys told us he had a whole box full of whatever we wanted. Not sure if he was joking or not....

[Matt13C]

What is the wings program?

[RightSeatGirl]

Originally Posted by MikeOH58

I was wondering how everyone felt about the FAA Wings program?

Tonight I went for my first time, particularly because the keynote was the DE who'm i've done 4 out of my 5 checkrides with, and one of my aviation mentors, and I also wanted to just check it out and learn a thing or two. There was a large audience tonight. A lot bigger than usual from what i'm told. About 70 people? The enormous turn out was definately for the keynote, who is extremely well known and respected in the aviation community in this area...Anyways, for the most part the majority of the people were there to learn..But there was a good amount who just made me say WTF? Theres guys trying to talk as much as possible, and finish sentences for the speaker! It blew my mind...So you fly pipers maybe 60 hours a year? Big freaking deal. Stop trying to act like you know more than the 30,000+ former cheif pilot who is trying to give a safety seminar. It just really pissed me off and took away from the whole experience from me. From what i'm told, this happens on a regular basis at these programs...Not the best way to build or salvage a reputation if you ask me.....Anyways, it really opened my eyes to some of the people who are out there flying airplanes with us. Having flown for a decade and maybe 1,500 hours and having the attitude you are Gods gift to aviation and you know it all just plain scares me. I wont be suprised to read about these guys in an accident report sooner or later because of their attitude.

Anyways, anyone else have any experiences like this? I think its a good program and has a lot of great information to give out, but i'm apprehensive about ever returning, at least to this chapter, because of the loudmouths who cant sit back and shut up, they just take a lot of the experience away from me.

Hey Mike, pilots are for the most part all type "A" personalities. That makes us domineering and aggressive by nature. And that has an unfortunate side effect of making most of us to at least some small degree think we know better. The majority of pilots keep that side of their "pilot arrogance" in check. But a few just can't seem to get it in their heads that they don't know what the hell they are talking about. I would expect you will run into that kind of nonsense again in the future.

[msmspilot]

Originally Posted by Matt13C

What is the wings program?

WINGS is an FAA sponsored safety program. It takes the place of the flight review you otherwise have to do every two years. To participate, go to faasafety.gov, register, and go to the "My WINGS" link on the lefthand side.

The WINGS program was just overhauled, so be careful who you get information from. Not everyone is aware of the changes. Currently, you have to get three flight credits and three ground credits to complete a phase. The credits required are based on the current pilot certificates you have. You will usually have 5-9 options (sometimes more) to get each credit. The ground credits can be done online or at FAA safety meetings in your area (on the website you can sign up for notifications of events in your area). If you have any other questions, I'll be happy to answer them or get the answer for you

[wildfreightess]

I was always a fan of the wings program when I was in GA. My FBO even held FAA safety meetings twice a year. It was a good way to refresh our pilots who just puttered around the local area, and to keep them informed as to what new rules and regs the FAA was considering.

[Matt13C]

Originally Posted by msmspilot

WINGS is an FAA sponsored safety program. It takes the place of the flight review you otherwise have to do every two years. To participate, go to faasafety.gov, register, and go to the "My WINGS" link on the lefthand side.

The WINGS program was just overhauled, so be careful who you get information from. Not everyone is aware of the changes. Currently, you have to get three flight credits and three ground credits to complete a phase. The credits required are based on the current pilot certificates you have. You will usually have 5-9 options (sometimes more) to get each credit. The ground credits can be done online or at FAA safety meetings in your area (on the website you can sign up for notifications of events in your area). If you have any other questions, I'll be happy to answer them or get the answer for you

Thanks! Sounds like something I would be interested in.

I am guessing since it takes the place of the bi-annual flight review I need to actually have at least my PPL. I should have that shortly, just broke the 30 hour mark , should I wait until I am due for my flight review?

Also, not sure how this works, but if I am continuing my training beyond PPL up to my CFI(I) and eventually MEI does each check ride start my 2 years fresh for when I am due for a review?

[msmspilot]

Originally Posted by Matt13C

Thanks! Sounds like something I would be interested in.

I am guessing since it takes the place of the bi-annual flight review I need to actually have at least my PPL. I should have that shortly, just broke the 30 hour mark , should I wait until I am due for my flight review?

Also, not sure how this works, but if I am continuing my training beyond PPL up to my CFI(I) and eventually MEI does each check ride start my 2 years fresh for when I am due for a review?

First, it's biennial. Biannual would be twice a year

Second, each new pilot certificate or rating resets your flight review. Instructor certificates do not, but based on the checkride, the DPE can sign off a flight review. (If anyone wants to argue that, I'll send you to the AOPA forums where they just hashed this out. I'm not going to argue about it.) If you're planning on going straight through pretty quickly, you obviously won't need to do WINGS, but there's still a lot to be learned from the FAA meetings and the AOPA Air Safety Foundation meetings.

There's also the possibility of a reduction in penalty if you are caught violating a reg if you do WINGS. The FAA inspector guys showed us the rubric they are required to follow and it won't let them reduce the mandatory penalties unless you're participating in an industry safety program, i.e. WINGS

[Number1atNumber2]

I never did the program, sounds like I may have missed out.

As for the conduct you experienced there, well there will always be pilots with the Sky God complex. IMO, the guys that have to talk the most, generally have the least skill, if not the most insecurity. If you're giving a lecture, that's one thing, but no one likes to hear the peanut gallery act like they know better. My favorites are the guys that call themselves "Captain" but only fly a C-172. They may be a captain of that plane alright, but lets not get too impressed with ourselves...

[Minnesota_Flyer]

Originally Posted by msmspilot

Instructor certificates do not, but based on the checkride, the DPE can sign off a flight review. (If anyone wants to argue that, I'll send you to the AOPA forums where they just hashed this out. I'm not going to argue about it.) If you're planning on going straight through pretty quickly, you obviously won't need to do WINGS, but there's still a lot to be learned from the FAA meetings and the AOPA Air Safety Foundation meetings.

Also, the new WINGS program recognizes successful passage of an initial CFI checkride, with one additional on-line course (in ADM, I think), as sufficient to cover all three levels of WINGS. So the initial CFI can get you WINGS, which counts as the flight review.

[msmspilot]

Originally Posted by Minnesota_Flyer

Also, the new WINGS program recognizes successful passage of an initial CFI checkride, with one additional on-line course (in ADM, I think), as sufficient to cover all three levels of WINGS. So the initial CFI can get you WINGS, which counts as the flight review.

That's very true. Also, your instrument or commercial or ATP checkrides will cover a LOT of the requirements, although, without looking at faasafety.gov I don't know exactly which ones each gives you.