Who says Aviation degrees are worthless?

[Fly_Unity]

I know I was told by many on this site not to get an Aviation Science degree, cause if I ever wanted to change jobs Id have something to fall back on. Well I wasn't interested in nothing else, so I went ahead and started UVSC onlines courses 2 years ago and Im amazed how good these courses are, I think every pilots should do some of these, Very valuable information that IMO you need to know.

Here are a couple good courses,

Aviation Law
Crew Resource Management (Probably the best I had yet, and man am I sick of reading NTSB reports, and doing all them essays, but an awesome course)
High Altitude Navigation/Int’l Flight Ops
Flight Physiology
Airtraffic Control

[dingo222]

I wouldnt say any degree is completely worthless. I know a guy that lost his medical and became the airport manager with his aviation degree. Better hrs and pay imo.

[minitour]

To answer your question, I do.

Not being interested in "nothing else" is nice...until you lose your medical for something you can't control and don't know about until it's too late.

Then take your aviation degree and try to get a (good paying w/ good QOL) job in the "real world" and see how far it gets you.

I'd much rather see young pilots get a business degree in administration or something along those lines. Myself included...as soon as we finish buying the new house, the next thing on my shopping list is a degree.

I'm not saying you can't take the CRM classes...see how they fit into another major, just think about it logically and not emotionally. Hell, if it were up to me I'd fly a mid-size twin turboprop or light jet (King Air 200 or 300, CE500 come to mind) for $90k for the rest of my life. If I think it through logically and take out the emotion, I know that isn't ever going to happen. Some day, hopefully not soon, I'm going to lose my medical. My family has a long history of hypertension, diabetes, heart disease, congenital heart failure and a whole list of other things that are rather unpleasant (Cancer and Brain Aneurysms seem to run in the famly too) If I put my eggs in one basket, I'm screwed and so is my family if I'm no longer able to provide.

-mini

[Ian J]

I guess all those philosophy and history majors are screwed!

[Propilot]

A degree in business or biology or whatever isnt very usefull either when its 10-20 years old and all you have been doing for the last 10-20 years is flying.
Your non-aviation degree might not be as much of a fallback as you think....at least not as much more than any other degree...like say....aviation.

[BobDDuck]

Good for you that you are enjoying the aviation classes you are talking. A degree, of any sort is never worthless. However, I think that a degree in something non aviation related may be more useful.

As far as the classes you mention:

Aviation Law - In order to practice you will need a law degree anyways.
Crew Resource Management - Nice course to have, but unless you are doing it as part of an accident investigation certification, it doesn't do too much as far as real world stuff goes.
High Altitude Navigation/Int’l Flight Ops - Taught in ground school if you need it.
Flight Physiology - Useful to have. I agree.
Airtraffic Control - Unless you are going into ATC (in which case you will learn this stuff as you go) I'm not sure how much practical application this has.

Don't get me wrong. It's great you are working towards being able to check the box that says you have a degree, but nothing you mention there really strikes me as giving you a solid backup should the flying thing not work out.

Also, (at the risk of stepping on the JC Grammar/Spelling Squad's toes) you may want to add an English course in there somewhere.

[blee256]

Originally Posted by Fly_Unity

I know I was told by many on this site not to get an Aviation Science degree, cause if I ever wanted to change jobs Id have something to fall back on.

I used to have that mentality. Get a degree in another field to fall back on. BUt that has since changed. Unless its a technical degree (engineering/architecture) a degree is a degree, whether it be business, art, history, aviation, sociology, etc....You have to look no further than they airline you work for, to realize that. How many airlines require an aviation degree? None, just a degree. Most other companies ask for the same. Just a bachelors is all they ask for. I have yet to see an want ad specify what the degree is in.

I agree with propilot. If you have no experience in those fields, just a bachelor degree won't help you. If I lose my medical after 10 years at the airlines, I highly doubt KPMG or Accenture will take me on just because I have a degree in accounting. Nor will SmithBarney hire me because of BA in Finance from 10 years ago.

Fly_unity, Good luck on obtaining your degree. its well worth it. No matter what its in.

[abrutus]

Originally Posted by minitour

Some day, hopefully not soon, I'm going to lose my medical. My family has a long history of hypertension, diabetes, heart disease, congenital heart failure and a whole list of other things that are rather unpleasant (Cancer and Brain Aneurysms seem to run in the famly too) If I put my eggs in one basket, I'm screwed and so is my family if I'm no longer able to provide.
-mini

I know its besides the point, but as a Good Medical Student I should tell you YOU ARE NOT SCREWD!. it is true you do have a greater risk than the average of developing any of the above Conditions. Specially Diabetes and Hypertension. But the fact that your (per say dad, or mom) had hipertension, doesnt mean that you WILL get it. It means that if you dont control your LIFE STYLe, then... you WILL get it.
Lets just say I smoke 1 pack a day, eat out a lot (specially fast food places), or simply have a bad diet, dont excersice, dont drink enough water a day, and live a pretty stressfull life. I MIGHT Get hipertension, sooner, later, or NOT AT All. Depending on my body´s strenght to deal with stressors.
IF you were to have the sedentary lifestyle like the example above, YOU WILL get Sick. When?? Its just a matter of time. You are predesponed, your treshold for sickness its way lower than the ¨´the rest of us¨¨. So if you want to aviod all that. Simply take care of your self!
Your body will thank you.
Eat right, Excersice, Dont smoke, (specially with your family history), Aviod alcohol, Enjoy life!. Your QOL will improve, you will feel better with your self and at best you will not develop any of the diseases you fear to get.
Just ask yourselve, how many of the above can be prevented with a change in LIFESTYLE.
Just my 5 cents

[Doug Taylor]

I have one. I wouldn't necessarily say "worthless" but with all things today being equal, if given the opportunity, I would have studied something else.

If I lost my medical, it's more or less insurance sales or a paper route!

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by blee256

I used to have that mentality. Get a degree in another field to fall back on. BUt that has since changed. Unless its a technical degree (engineering/architecture) a degree is a degree, whether it be business, art, history, aviation, sociology, etc....You have to look no further than they airline you work for, to realize that. How many airlines require an aviation degree? None, just a degree. Most other companies ask for the same. Just a bachelors is all they ask for. I have yet to see an want ad specify what the degree is in.

I agree with propilot. If you have no experience in those fields, just a bachelor degree won't help you. If I lose my medical after 10 years at the airlines, I highly doubt KPMG or Accenture will take me on just because I have a degree in accounting. Nor will SmithBarney hire me because of BA in Finance from 10 years ago.

Fly_unity, Good luck on obtaining your degree. its well worth it. No matter what its in.

I agree! A degree is a degree. I know plenty of people who have degrees, who are working in career fields, not even closely related to their degree. Unless it is a specialized career, i.e, medicine, usually the only requirement for most jobs is, "bachelor degree". Rarely does it specify a specific one. If you have an aviation degree, especially aviation management, I would imagine it could open up jobs, for one, in business. Don't forget that there are other aviation related jobs, that do not involve flying; FAA, Boeing, etc. A lot of people may not think of it, but don't underestimate the managerial experience that a captain has, and if you ever lose your medical, use that to your full advantage, when applying for another job.

[Bluto]

My buddy with his business degree spent years on his knees as a finish carpenter. Finally, he found a management job making less than pretty much any regional captain. I agree that, unless your degree is in something technical like engineering or pharmacy, a bachelor's is pretty much worthless without some good experience.

Having said that, though, I would advocate always keeping your CFI current after getting that airline job. Keeping mine current and having some luck helped me out immensely when I got furloughed.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

If I lost my medical, it's more or less insurance sales or a paper route!

I'd go with the paper route. Better QOL.

[Doug Taylor]

I'd go with the paper route. Better QOL.

Word.

But, on the flip side, I've got to deal with this:

[meritflyer]

Lucky for you, you'll be the aggressor.

[Doug Taylor]

"I didn't ask for a dime... Two dollars... casssssssh"

[minitour]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I have one. I wouldn't necessarily say "worthless" but with all things today being equal, if given the opportunity, I would have studied something else.

If I lost my medical, it's more or less insurance sales or a paper route!

Insurance isn't as bad as it sounds. I did that for a while. The money is great and the schedule is what you make it.

I'm "this close" to doing it part time on my off weeks...but I want to golf and I'm afraid it will cut into my golfing time. Priorities.

-mini

[jtrain609]

Why do we only talk about the practical applications of a degree to a certain field?

I did my degree in philosophy for personal enrichment as much as professional advancement. It's also an excellent pre-law degree, as are history, political science and English degree's.

You couldn't pay me enough to skip out on the experiences I had in college, or the things I learned in my field of study.

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by Fly_Unity

I know I was told by many on this site not to get an Aviation Science degree, cause if I ever wanted to change jobs Id have something to fall back on. Well I wasn't interested in nothing else, so I went ahead and started UVSC onlines courses 2 years ago and Im amazed how good these courses are, I think every pilots should do some of these, Very valuable information that IMO you need to know.

Here are a couple good courses,

Aviation Law
Crew Resource Management (Probably the best I had yet, and man am I sick of reading NTSB reports, and doing all them essays, but an awesome course)
High Altitude Navigation/Int’l Flight Ops
Flight Physiology
Airtraffic Control

Why do I think it's worthless? Because those in my 121 new hire ground school with aviation degrees thought it was hard. Those of us with engineering degrees thought it was relatively easy. I didn't use a single gouge, did all the homework, got plenty of sleep, passed all the tests in the high 90s, and thought it was one of the easier things I'd done. Compared to my engineering courses...well, there is no comparison.

[imasaluki]

A degree is a degree is a degee. It proves you have the ability to take on a task, set goals, and achieve the goals you set. Most jobs require a 4-year degree... that's it. If a job requires something other than that, it will probably also require experience in that field as well. So, you get a 4-year non-aviation degree and the only experience you have is driving a plane, well... you're in the same boat as a "flying" degree. He has a degree with no experience in a non-aviation field, and you have a degree in the field with no experience as well. 6 of one; half dozen of the other if you ask me.

So, the point is... your experience and abilties matter the most. The 4-year degree is requisite, to be competitive in just about ANYTHING, get experience and develop what you're able to do. I.E. Sell insurance, carpentry, drive a truck, whatever, etc.

I think Bluto said about the same thing... just echoing his sentiments because I agree whole heartedly.

Josh

[Fly_Unity]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Good for you that you are enjoying the aviation classes you are talking. A degree, of any sort is never worthless. However, I think that a degree in something non aviation related may be more useful.

As far as the classes you mention:

Aviation Law - In order to practice you will need a law degree anyways.
Crew Resource Management - Nice course to have, but unless you are doing it as part of an accident investigation certification, it doesn't do too much as far as real world stuff goes.
High Altitude Navigation/Int’l Flight Ops - Taught in ground school if you need it.
Flight Physiology - Useful to have. I agree.
Airtraffic Control - Unless you are going into ATC (in which case you will learn this stuff as you go) I'm not sure how much practical application this has.

Don't get me wrong. It's great you are working towards being able to check the box that says you have a degree, but nothing you mention there really strikes me as giving you a solid backup should the flying thing not work out.

Also, (at the risk of stepping on the JC Grammar/Spelling Squad's toes) you may want to add an English course in there somewhere.

Im not saying there are not any better degrees, Im sure there probaly are, I left a high paying job that paid far more then aviation will ever pay, and I could go back anytime I wanted to. So for me it was either nothing or the Aviation degree.

I disagree though with you on your remarks about the courses, The stuff I learned in Aviation Law will definitely come in handy if i ever get into trouble, or I ever want to start my own aviation company. And the CRM courses, wow, I think that should be required for every pilot. It has far made me a better pilot when working with crew members, and may have prevented lots of accidents had proper CRM training been used. besides, Its awesome hearing all the tapes from the accidents. And International Nav, Im not set on the airlines, and I enjoyed learning the different methods to navigate in different parts of the world (like where a compass wont work, or different procedures in different countries) in case I decide to go to Africa or somewhere doing mission work (and I want to sometime).

I do agree though that if you want to go the the airlines, they will teach everything you need to know for that specific job, and an aviation degree is not really benefiting you.

And yea, English courses starting this summer semester. Thanks for the suggestion though.

[Pilot2087]

Originally Posted by Ralgha

Why do I think it's worthless? Because those in my 121 new hire ground school with aviation degrees thought it was hard. Those of us with engineering degrees thought it was relatively easy. I didn't use a single gouge, did all the homework, got plenty of sleep, passed all the tests in the high 90s, and thought it was one of the easier things I'd done. Compared to my engineering courses...well, there is no comparison.

LOL I met guys who never been to college think new-hire ground school was a piece of cake. I also had students with engineering degrees that couldn't memorize procedures if they had their life on it, All they had was a big head.

Just because you had an easy time with it dont mean a thing in my world. Engineering degrees are as useless as the moon if you go to college just to get the check-mark.

[Doug Taylor]

However, love it or hate it... accept it or not... if you want to get out of the regional game, most of the majors require a four year degree.

We've have this discussion before.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that it is the way it is.

[eta71]

Originally Posted by Fly_Unity

... besides, Its awesome hearing all the tapes from the accidents.
And yea, English courses starting this summer semester. Thanks for the suggestion though.

I have a degree in aviation adiministration. I'm happy I have it. All my major coursework were rewarding. I've had the opportunity to work in airport operations and it benefitted me as a pilot. I also have a background in healthcare to fall back on.

During my studies I took CRM/Aviation Safety courses. I've heard the tapes in lower division and upper division classes. In no way would I say they are awesome. They are horrible and sad. Useful yes, but not awesome. I may have misunderstood your tone or intent of the word.

Reading your posts in this thread I would suggest you study hard in your english courses. I have a pet peeve with spelling/grammar and some of your communication within this thread needs work. Some may say this is only an internet forum but when you communicate it tells a lot about you. I had a coworker from my alma mater who would write daily reports for the airport. We had an incident with a helicopter which she covered in her daily report. She described a problem with the "petals". Sad too since she is also a pilot. From then on I discounted much of what she had to offer. I'm sure the airport manager who reads the daily reports did too after that. Make it a goal to learn and overcome common errors in english and it will take you far.
It will come in time.

my .02

[seagull]

Originally Posted by minitour

To answer your question, I do.

Then take your aviation degree and try to get a (good paying w/ good QOL) job in the "real world" and see how far it gets you.

I'd much rather see young pilots get a business degree in administration or something along those lines. Myself included...as soon as we finish buying the new house, the next thing on my shopping list is a degree.-mini

As has been said MANY times here, with the exception of some specialized degrees, name me ANY undergrad degree that will let you walk right into some high paying job? Almost NOBODY out there is working in their field of study. The degree is just a box to check for most employers.

[MQAAord]

Originally Posted by seagull

As has been said MANY times here, with the exception of some specialized degrees, name me ANY undergrad degree that will let you walk right into some high paying job? Almost NOBODY out there is working in their field of study. The degree is just a box to check for most employers.

My brother's degree is Engineering Physics. He's currently a software engineer for an oil company in Tulsa. He started school as a Mechanical Engineering major, and his friends who continued in that program were recruited with their Mech Eng degrees in sales of some sort!