College

[mhcasey]

Originally Posted by Ian J

Slightly off topic -

"They shouldn't be learning grammar IN college! You shouldn't be able to get INTO college without knowing grammar!"

Touche.

Originally Posted by ElyJs

IMO Online classes are a waste. The only reason to take these is to check a box. You will learn nothing you couldn't learn from going to the library. If you really just want to check a box then go for it but I would rather spend my money on travel or something that will actually help me grow as a person. Life is more about the journey than the destination.

You can also learn a lot in tech talk and cfi corner...

[PGT]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

I always knew I was in for a crappy trip when my FO started a story with "dude, this one time in college I was so frickin' drunk...."

Sorry, just not interesting.

I agree with that, it gets old real fast but not everyone in college drinks 5 times a week.

I think there's no denying that going to college instead of straight to regionals will make you a better rounded person.

I do think going to a traditional college is the better route and I also know that not everyone is the same. Bill Gates dropped out of college and look where that got him.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by ElyJs

Eventually I realized that I was missing out and the only one making myself unhappy was myself...

Now I realize that I am 22 and I have the maturity of a 22 year old...

Now that I have 600 hours I realize that I have the experience level of a 600 hour pilot...

A big part of that is learning to enjoy life and realizing that if you live your life always looking at what better and whats below, your (sic) missing the point...

Life is more about the journey than the destination.

Quality Of Life is 10% physical, 90% mental.

[AngelFuree]

I completely agree with ElyJs.

I used to think I was more mature than people my age, felt as if I was 5 years older just because I was set on what I wanted to do with my life (i.e. become a pilot). I was so focused on getting done with college and had a set plan to get the hell out ASAP so I could join the airlines. I started to indulge in the college fun and, to this day, do not want to leave the college environment.

I'm in a pretty cold, boring city up here in North Dakota, but I would not trade my college experience for some random online degree. I came in here as a dork, but am leaving COMPLETELY different from how I used to be when I got here. (A really good thing.)

I've met many different types of people in college. You'll get along with some, you won't get along with others, that's just life...get used to it right now, otherwise you'll be miserable forever. I must say, however, that being in college is a nice transition period for us in our social lives and economic independence as you grow.

If I could be in college longer, you bet I would! (I just don't want any more debt. )

Get exposed to the fun! Don't think you're (you, in general) holier than thou for not drinking or smoking. I've never done drugs (I don't really care whether someone's tried it or not, I'm not in a position to judge) nor do I smoke, but I drink in moderation and so do many other people. Not everyone is an alcoholic. Drinking is fun, it's a nice supplement to your social life. If you limit yourself to social taboos, you will live a monotonous life.

This is completely my opinion. People may or may not agree with me.

In the end, all I'm saying is EXPERIMENT with your life and go out of your comfort zone. I wasn't social before coming to college. Now, I can't live without people (I guess another weakness ).


...and ditto with those who say "life is more about the journey." Don't be so dead set on ONE way to do things.

[majorityof1]

In a perfect world life is about the journey and making yourself as well rounded as possible. The reality is that you do the best that you can with what you have while making yourself as marketable as possible.

If you have enough money and few enough responsibilities it may be the better choice to go to a traditional university. Not everyone has that luxury. For those with more responsibilities, taking online courses and going to the regionals to gain experience that will progress you a little faster toward an airline career is the responsible move.

I disagree that online classes can be learned on your own at a library. I only have my experience to speak from, but I learned java programming and calc 2 online. Sure, i could have gone to a library to learn this, I also could have gone to a university. Another advantage of online courses is the lower cost. With the extreme debt many pilots have after getting their ratings maybe this should be a more accepted way of earning a degree.

I say this after having been in the military for five years and having a family. To someone fresh out of high school, if you have the money and few personal responsibilities, then you may want to go the traditional route. What everyone is talking about here is their process of maturing and having a good time. You can do this in college or while working.

p.s. your mom goes to college

[Ian J]

Here's an option for those who don't want to go to college right after HS.

Join the military. Not as a pilot (which requires a degree except the Army Warrant Officer program), but as an enlisted member. Seriously - you can join for as little as 2 years and they will pay for your college.

Worried about patrolling the streets of Baghdad? Join the Navy.

Once you are done your maturity level sky-rockets and you are in a much better frame of mind to be successful during college. Oh, and as a side benefit, you would have served your country, too.

I was never a good student in HS - didn't want to go to college (for reasons many have listed) but my parents forced me. I only took 3 classes my first quarter and failed 2 of them. I enlisted after that. Five years later I was in college again on my own terms with a whole new attitude and knocked out a pretty impressive graduating GPA.

It's certainly not for everyone - but it's an option.

[Seggy]

[Qgar]

Originally Posted by Ian J

Here's an option for those who don't want to go to college right after HS.

Join the military. Not as a pilot (which requires a degree except the Army Warrant Officer program), but as an enlisted member. Seriously - you can join for as little as 2 years and they will pay for your college.

Worried about patrolling the streets of Baghdad? Join the Navy.

Once you are done your maturity level sky-rockets and you are in a much better frame of mind to be successful during college. Oh, and as a side benefit, you would have served your country, too.

I was never a good student in HS - didn't want to go to college (for reasons many have listed) but my parents forced me. I only took 3 classes my first quarter and failed 2 of them. I enlisted after that. Five years later I was in college again on my own terms with a whole new attitude and knocked out a pretty impressive graduating GPA.

It's certainly not for everyone - but it's an option.

WOW, Ian..Good for you! The key word here is maturity and I'm glad the Army provided you the opportunity to realize your full potential.

[DrewWalden]

I tried to join the military.

I can't because my knee is crap, ACL replacement, PCL Replacement, and everything else was torn as well. Including the main artery. Dislocated it, I guess thats what you get for racing motocross.

I don't think i'm a goody two shoes, and I do drink occasionally.

But idk, Just didn't like college, maybe it was just the place I was at. A lot, I think, had to do with the fact that I was expecting more out of the flight program.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by DrewWalden

I tried to join the military.

I can't because my knee is crap, ACL replacement, PCL Replacement, and everything else was torn as well. Including the main artery. Dislocated it, I guess thats what you get for racing motocross.

I don't think i'm a goody two shoes, and I do drink occasionally.

But idk, Just didn't like college, maybe it was just the place I was at. A lot, I think, had to do with the fact that I was expecting more out of the flight program.

Exactly why I switched majors four times, from flight, to aviation management, to political science and finally philosophy.

[aerospacepilot]

Hey Drew,

I am sorry to hear about your feelings towards college. Here is the deal. If you ever want to fly for a major airline (American, United, Delta, Continental, Northwest, US Air, Southwest, FedEx, UPS (Basically, the good employers)), you will NEED a 4 year college degree. Most of these airlines require a 4 year college degree in their job requirements. If you don't have one, your resume goes straight to the recycle bin before anyone looks at it. The others say a 4 year college degree is "highly preferred." This means that it is possible (although highly unlikely) to be hired without a 4 year college degree. However, this is usually reserved to people with really high up connections (eg. the CEO's daughter), and not for some random off the street pilot.

As others have said, your odds of getting hired at a good major airline without a 4 year college degree are slim to none. I would say you have a 99% chance of NOT getting hired. If I gave you 99% odds of something happening, would you bet everything you own (or in your case, your entire future) on that tiny 1% chance. NO, of course you wouldn't.

Why would I say a 1% chance. Well, there are about 20,000 pilots flying at regional airlines. There are tens of thousands of other pilots flying as CFI's/freight/part 135 that would kill to fly for a major airline. As a result, every major airlines has thousands upon thousands of resumes on their desk. Some, like Southwest, FedEx, and UPS have over 10,000 resumes. All those resumes look fairly similar. How are these major airlines going to choose 20 pilots for their next class out of this gigantic stack of resumes? They are going to look for a way to eliminate resumes from the pile. The easiest and most common way to thin the pile is to take the resumes without a 4 year college degree and throw them in the recycle bin. Where do you want your resume to be? In the recycle bin, or on HR's desk?

Without a 4 year college degree, the furthest your career will likely go is a captain at a regional airline. At a regional, you will probably max out at around $90,000. At a major airline, you could max out somewhere between $190,000 and $250,000 (or more). Over a potential 30 year career at a major airline, you would be costing yourself MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars by not having your 4 year college degree. And it is not just money. Schedules, days off, vacation, work rules, and overall quality of life are generally much better at major airlines. Think about all the things you will be missing out on by not getting a 4 year college degree.

The job selection for airline pilots is highly competitive. To get hired, you need to do something to set yourself apart. By not getting a 4 year college degree, you are telling the people that could hire you that they should look at the other thousands of resumes WITH 4 year college degrees before they look at yours. Think about all the opportunities you will be missing out on.

Here is a good quote from another JC member about trying to make yourself as competitive as possible.

To all you new guys; listen up. You are entering a profession of overachievers, people smarter than you, people more driven than you, people more dedicated than you, people that have 4.0's from schools you didn't even dare apply to, people that are better looking than you, people that are more likable than you and people that have better training than you.

THESE are the people you are competing with for jobs. Read that word again; competing. You are trying to best these people in order to get the job that BOTH of you want, and in some situations only one of you will get it.

Things are slowing down. Hiring is slowing down, the economy is slowing down and the qualifications to get these jobs WILL go up.

So what are you going to do to combat that and make yourself a more marketable pilot who will get the job instead of me?

What makes YOU more marketable? Folks have GOT to start looking at this stuff and saying, "How can I make myself a better, more marketable pilot" instead of saying, "Oh gee whiz I've gotta teach! Oh no! That's horrible! I just wanna fly a jet! I don't want to do anything more than the minimum amount of work!"

Make yourself more marketable, make yourself stand out, go ABOVE AND BEYOND EVERYBODY ELSE, don't go for the minimum standard, network and make friends and if I haven't said it yet GO TO COLLEGE!

I think I have spelled it out for you as best as I can. If you want to get a good job in aviation, you need a 4 year college degree.

Good luck with your decision. Let us know what you decide.

[pilatus028]

If you don't like the people in college, how are you going to deal with that one captain? I loved going to class to listen to the things people would say and actually had the ability to keep my hand from smacking some of them. I also got to meet some very interesting and educated people that really enlightened me; seminars always had my favorite discussions. Thinking outside the box? College challenges you to think outside the box. It's always fun challenging a professor; you win some and you lose some. Drugs and alcohol are always going to be around, it's reality man. However, it can be avoided. I have friends that attend FSU and UF. When I visit, alcohol is breakfast/lunch/dinner. Places that serve pitchers at 25 cents and increase 1 quarter per hour until you black out. If this is what you don't like, do what I did. I went to a commuter school, the average undergraduate was 26. I was the youngest in the class, kind of made it hard to meet people since they all had lives (married, kids, etc). You had a few idiots, but for the most part these people were hard workers and were in fact seeking a real education (and it was not an aviation school). My degree is in business and political science so the day I lose my medical I have something to do or the day I apply to FedEx I at least made it through one filter. At 19, you have the time and the job will be there. I went to visit a professor where I got the A.S. in pilot 101 and he mentioned a student paying for the Gulfstream Academy because he was worried he was not going to get hired; are you kidding me?? Everyone is hiring. The professor looked at me and said he can't wait to retire.

[launchpad]

ElyJs put it best. Enjoy the journey.

Here's another thought to ponder. Being a Captain at an airline (everyone's goal) involves being able to manage a lot of people from all different walks of life. You not only have to deal with the First Officer. You have to deal with Flight Attendants, Rampers, Customer Service agents, Passengers, Cops, Chief Pilots...etc. etc. etc. the list is a long one. I say learn while you're young to deal with everyone you come across. Learn their story and figure out how to befriend, pacify, or just ignore them effectively. College is a huge tool in figuring out this specific skill early in life.

Another skill that is important in this business is setting your priorities. An online degree will definitely help you develop this. But when you're young and have choices (to enjoy the journy, as ElyJs put it), or study, you'll have a harder time choosing than you think. You'll need to figure this out before you go to class at an airline. You'll need to figure it out before dealing with passengers. You'll need to figure it out before dealing with in-flight emergencies. Practice on your pot-smoking hippy friends now and save yourself the uncertainty later.

There are many ways to check the box. I'm a big fan of going to an actual college because there are skills you're able to learn that prepare you more for "real-life" than most other options. People have done without, and there's nothing that says you won't succeed without going to college. I say enjoy whatever road you take, and don't be in a rush to get where you're going. It'll suck the life right out of you......

[WCAT1918]

Originally Posted by PGT

best way to make friends? go to parties.

there girls, friends, girls, flying, and girls

college is sweet. if anything come up to St. Cloud with me in the fall and I'll make sure you start loving college haha

I would argue that college parties are not necessarily a great way to meet people, most notably the big ones. The main objective for most of these people, excluding DD's is to get wasted! They could care less about making the rounds like at say a cocktail party. not a great place for an intellectual conversation when there are so many drunk people packed in one house you feel like you are suffocating... I guess I'm just more of a small group gathering type of guy, getting hammered is fun once in a while, but it can get old quick and I hate feeling like crap during and afterwards.

As for your question, college is not for everyone and there will always be people there who are obnoxious and who you don't see eye to eye with, but that's life! Get an advisor to help you find some interesting classes, join some clubs that appeal to your interests and from there you can meet people who you share something in common with. Try to get yourself out there any way you can, it doesn't have to be going to house parties or pledging a frat, but just try to make an effort. If you still feel it hasn't worked out, then maybe CC or a commuter school is a better option and if that doesn't work, try online classes. You will feel better having an education, it's important and it gets you places in what is becoming an extremely competitive job market. Good luck

[DrewWalden]

I can not thank yall enough for all the support. I believe I am going to give college another try. I am gonna go to a different school that has more what im looking for. I am going to seperate college from flying. Going to get my ratings the local FBO way, and try to pay as I go. That way I do not have all the debt.

The enjoying the journey really hit home with me. My whole life I have always been in a rush to get to were I am going. I want to be the best, and have always pushed myself extremely hard. I am going to try to start enjoying myself, instead of pushing myself so hard.

Life isn't about money, or being the best, or getting there first, It is about being happy. As far as getting a long with people. I do get along with people I do not agree with, but it is hard to make a true friend with people like that.

Once again, thanks for all the help.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by DrewWalden

I can not thank yall enough for all the support. I believe I am going to give college another try. I am gonna go to a different school that has more what im looking for. I am going to seperate college from flying. Going to get my ratings the local FBO way, and try to pay as I go. That way I do not have all the debt.

The enjoying the journey really hit home with me. My whole life I have always been in a rush to get to were I am going. I want to be the best, and have always pushed myself extremely hard. I am going to try to start enjoying myself, instead of pushing myself so hard.

Life isn't about money, or being the best, or getting there first, It is about being happy. As far as getting a long with people. I do get along with people I do not agree with, but it is hard to make a true friend with people like that.

Once again, thanks for all the help.

A true JC success story! Good for you, Drew.