College

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by mhcasey

Go to college because your grammar needs some serious work.

Slightly off topic -

Yelled out to me by a former college English professor:

"They shouldn't be learning grammar IN college! You shouldn't be able to get INTO college without knowing grammar!"

[moxiepilot]

Originally Posted by DrewWalden

I hate college, and do not want to go.

Anybody flying for a living with no degree?

I suppose you've got the answers now. The answer is "yes" people do fly without having a college degree.

Wanting to fly and wanting to run a business are good goals. I had this discussion a few days ago with the "where do you see yourself in 5 years" type of a question. Same answer: I just want to fly and make enough money to pay the bills.

But you know, I don't want to be impoverished for the rest of my life, so I need a greater goal than just wanting to fly.

As for running a business I would highly recommend taking a few business courses while you're still in college and a few accounting and tax courses. Otherwise I get the feeling that you're going to be highly in debt, bankrupt or worse.

People with a high degree of education have a tough time with business. People with a high degree of street smarts have a tough time running a business. People with both have a tough time running a business.

And the most important part of running a business is....getting a long with a lot of different types of people. So if you can't do that now with folks in your own age group, then I would reconsider the running your own business plan.

[majorityof1]

Originally Posted by DrewWalden

I thought about working for a while, and at the same time getting my private - commercial. Then working a regional, and getting a online degree.

Is this possible?

This is exactly what I am doing. As for my background: I was in the military for five years and got out. I had my Associates Degree finished via distance education by the time I ETS'd. After the military, I went to an FBO and earned all of my ratings, then I was hired by a regional carrier. I currently have 20 semester hours left until I finish my Computer Science Bachelor's Degree. My degree is a distance learning degree, but I did have to take a few classes in a brick and mortar building. So, yes, it is possible.

I had the military to pay for all of my school and 60% of my ratings. I wouldn't be able to get my ratings and finish college without help from the VA. Be careful about holding off on school, maybe you have the money now, and won't after a while. Just as a word of caution once you stop school it is REALLY hard to start going again.

[majorityof1]

Originally Posted by PGT

ok so if you decide to go with the online thing,
what about the good stories? what about meeting lifelong friends? the whole networking thing?

When you graduate at 22, you have 43 years to fly so go out and have some fun.

hahahahahah... this is the funniest post I have read in a while. Boy, thanks for making me laugh!

[DrewWalden]

Thanks everyone for the help.

I want to make it clear why I do not get a long with people my age.
Most people my age do not care about anything.
They are always smoking pot and getting drunk, instead of doing what they need to do.
They are not responsible about anything.
All they care about is partying.
They are immature.
It really has nothing to do with age, but the fact that I like to surround myself with people who can actually help me in life, and people who have some brains.

As for my grammar, I do not believe that has anything to do with being a good pilot. For some reason grammar does not come easy for me. I do not believe this is a reflection of my intelligence. I graduated with honors in the top of my class in high school, and my GPA in college was a 3.7.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by DrewWalden

I want to make it clear why I do not get a long with people my age.
Most people my age do not care about anything.
They are always smoking pot and getting drunk, instead of doing what they need to do.
They are not responsible about anything.
All they care about is partying.
They are immature.

Funny story...

I don't drink, and have never done drugs. I'm a pretty boring person as far as that all goes. Anyhow, growing up in high school, most of my friends were into that sort of thing, although it certainly wasn't ALL they did, it was a large part. I just kept telling myself, when I get to college there will be other people who like to do "other" stuff (what ever that might be). So I end up going to what at the time was the number one party school in the country because they had the program I wanted, and surprise, surprise, all most people did was do drugs and drink. So I kept telling myself, well, when I graduate and get into the real world... I'm here now (ain't that scary?) and guess what? Most people out there still get drunk, party and many (not so much in the aviation industry) do drugs.

My point being, you are going to find those people pretty much anywhere in life. It's not just a collage thing. A lot of my friends are certainly "those" people. But just because they do that stuff (some of them A LOT) doesn't mean I can't be friends with them. Eventually, you will find a group of people, who similar to you would rather do other stuff. The trick is balancing the two different sorts of people out.

Now, as I type this I realize there is a generation gap between me in my late 20s and you on the underside of 20. I really didn't believe it, but looking at a lot of the "me" generation stuff that is going on now, I'll admit I may be way off base with a lot of this stuff.

[DrewWalden]

Thanks again for all the help.

Another thing I have been thinking about.

Would it not be smart to go ahead to the quick academy program, get into a regional and start building seniority.

While doing an online degree.

I mean if I work to pay for my flying with no debt, but it takes me longer. I might end up not being able to get a regional. Thus pushing back when I can start making seniority. It seems like this is a great time to start flying with all the hiring regionals are doing.

Ahh, so many factors play into this.

Thanks so much for the help.

[Ducky]

thats what im doing.^^^^^^^^^^^^

[DeltaAVL]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Working with others. The OP said he is 19 and doesn't do well with people in his own age group. That might be a good skill set to have when he is forced to sit 3 feet away from them for hours on end.

Exactly. In the flight deck, you've got to get along with whoever's there, regardless of his morals and opinions.

Even though I'm just a mere student pilot, I've already figured out what flying's pretty much about - acceptance and trust. And if you can't do those things, you're just going to be a hindrance.


As an aside - BobDDuck, you sound remarkably like me in the fact that you don't do drugs/drink. Good for you, man.

[Matt13C]

Originally Posted by frog_flyer

Zoinks, Scoobs. Did he say he was a college grad?

Dude, get a degree. Don't do it just to check a box on an application or to fill a line on your resume, do it to make yourself a better, more rounded individual.

...And bang some hotties while you're in college. And drink lots of beer.

DOO! Terrible grammar!

Grammar lessons aside, I say only go to college if it is where you want to be. If you are not interested you won't get all you should out of the experience. I think you should do what you want and what makes you happy, if that happens to be flying, then fly.

Too many people go to college because it is what society says is the next step when in reality they have no idea what they want to study. I think it is just a huge waste of time and money.

If your goal is the Majors then a degree is pretty much a certainty, as far as I know. But there is not a specific path you must take. If flying is what you love, do it. As you do, you may find a subject that interests you enough that you want to earn a degree.

Since you say you like being around older people, take night classes.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by DrewWalden

Thanks again for all the help.

Another thing I have been thinking about.

Would it not be smart to go ahead to the quick academy program, get into a regional and start building seniority.

While doing an online degree.

I mean if I work to pay for my flying with no debt, but it takes me longer. I might end up not being able to get a regional. Thus pushing back when I can start making seniority. It seems like this is a great time to start flying with all the hiring regionals are doing.

Ahh, so many factors play into this.

Thanks so much for the help.

You're assuming you can get on with a regional quickly and easily.

Mesaba is offering voluntary furloughs.

ExpressJet is offering voluntary furloughs.

Skywest has stopped classes.

Colgan is about to get stapled to the bottom of Pinnacle's seniority list.

Big Sky just disappeared.

Skyway just disappeared.

So...where are you gonna head?

Eagle? They're getting sold off.

Pinnacle? How much do you like being abused?

Mesa? Erm...seriously?

Great Lakes? Again...seriously?

You could go to PSA, Republic, ASA or Air Wisky, but those are probably the only decent regionals to head to that are still hiring.

Get your degree, get a backup and be ready to face a furlough. I've got two resumes I keep polished up; an aviation resume and a non-aviation resume in case things go south.

[Matt13C]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Funny story...

I don't drink, and have never done drugs. I'm a pretty boring person as far as that all goes. Anyhow, growing up in high school, most of my friends were into that sort of thing, although it certainly wasn't ALL they did, it was a large part. I just kept telling myself, when I get to college there will be other people who like to do "other" stuff (what ever that might be). So I end up going to what at the time was the number one party school in the country because they had the program I wanted, and surprise, surprise, all most people did was do drugs and drink. So I kept telling myself, well, when I graduate and get into the real world... I'm here now (ain't that scary?) and guess what? Most people out there still get drunk, party and many (not so much in the aviation industry) do drugs.

My point being, you are going to find those people pretty much anywhere in life. It's not just a collage thing. A lot of my friends are certainly "those" people. But just because they do that stuff (some of them A LOT) doesn't mean I can't be friends with them. Eventually, you will find a group of people, who similar to you would rather do other stuff. The trick is balancing the two different sorts of people out.

Now, as I type this I realize there is a generation gap between me in my late 20s and you on the underside of 20. I really didn't believe it, but looking at a lot of the "me" generation stuff that is going on now, I'll admit I may be way off base with a lot of this stuff.

Is that difficult on the road? I have a few friends who are pilots and their stories from the road revolve around getting drunk. I am much like you in that I do not drink much and don't do drugs.

[wheelsup]

Personally I think pilots drink on the road because 1) there isn't much else to do and 2) after a drink or two everyone becomes friends and it gets a lot easier to have a good time . Also reason number 3) because it takes the pain away.

[PGT]

Originally Posted by majorityof1

hahahahahah... this is the funniest post I have read in a while. Boy, thanks for making me laugh!

Sorry but I want more out of my youth than just scrambling to the regionals trying to get my magical "1000" PIC.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by PGT

Sorry but I want more out of my youth than just scrambling to the regionals trying to get my magical "1000" PIC.

Word. I want much more out of my life than any airline is going to offer me. I'm marrying TheShortOne, not my employer.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by Matt13C

Is that difficult on the road? I have a few friends who are pilots and their stories from the road revolve around getting drunk. I am much like you in that I do not drink much and don't do drugs.

I've never really had a problem. There has been only one time were a captain gave me some grief about NOT drinking (and was serious about it) but if we had no fly lists, he'd be on a bunch of people's.

I have no problem going out with the crew even if they are drinking. The one downside is in states where they haven't banned smoking in bars yet. I have to suffer through that and for no real reason as I could go get a lemonade at 7-11, where as the drinking crew members can at least enjoy a beverage they couldn't have elsewhere.

I do have a little less tolerance for people doing stupid crap because they are drunk. To me, it's not an excuse for doing dumb things and I am VERY reluctant to offer my help in solving somebody else's drunk induced problem. One thing I can't stand is when somebody does something while drunk that forces me (or other people) into a position of HAVING to fixed the problem. JC07 comes to mind.

And would you believe it that several times woman have bailed on a date after they found out I don't drink? At least that's what they told me. Maybe they were just trying to be nice.

[majorityof1]

Originally Posted by PGT

Sorry but I want more out of my youth than just scrambling to the regionals trying to get my magical "1000" PIC.

Well, I want more out of my youth than Ramen Noodles and Old Milwaukee beer. I want things like being able to pay my bills, having no debt, and a college degree.

I agree about not being married to your job or your airline. But to say college is the only way to network, have a good time, get stories to tell, and that while in the airlines you are a lifeless, joyless sack of meat, is insane.

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by Matt13C

Is that difficult on the road? I have a few friends who are pilots and their stories from the road revolve around getting drunk. I am much like you in that I do not drink much and don't do drugs.

The best way to deal with it is to bid PM trips. If you never get into your overnight until after 10pm, then most crews aren't interested in going out anyway. Then you can all go for lunch the next day sans alcohol before your show time. That's what I usually bid. I'm a drinker, but usually not on overnights. Another advantage to PM trips? The crotchety old geezers usually bid AM trips, so you can avoid them.

[Matt13C]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

The best way to deal with it is to bid PM trips. If you never get into your overnight until after 10pm, then most crews aren't interested in going out anyway. Then you can all go for lunch the next day sans alcohol before your show time. That's what I usually bid. I'm a drinker, but usually not on overnights. Another advantage to PM trips? The crotchety old geezers usually bid AM trips, so you can avoid them.

Ha, thanks for the advice.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

The best way to deal with it is to bid PM trips.

The one downside of that is you may get stuck with the guy who is going to fly Mmo to get there in time to get his beer in before the 12 or 8 hour rule kicks in. I watched one guy scream at the van driver because he wasn't outside waiting for us. Funny thing was the night before this guy didn't seem to care that the van took 30 minutes to get there.

[PGT]

Originally Posted by majorityof1

I agree about not being married to your job or your airline. But to say college is the only way to network, have a good time, get stories to tell, and that while in the airlines you are a lifeless, joyless sack of meat, is insane.

I don't want my stories starting out with "one time I was building time over Kansas in a Seminole when..."

Different strokes for different folks I guess

[MQAAord]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

The best way to deal with it is to bid PM trips. If you never get into your overnight until after 10pm, then most crews aren't interested in going out anyway. Then you can all go for lunch the next day sans alcohol before your show time.

I found the exact opposite to be true.

If you get into the overnight at 10 pm, that gives a drinker 3-4 hours of bar time before last call, AND they don't have to get up for an early show.

Many people I flew with would pass on going out "drinking" if they have an early show.

By far, in my experience, the drinking and partying was done by the PM shift folks.

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by PGT

I don't want my stories starting out with "one time I was building time over Kansas in a Seminole when..."

I always knew I was in for a crappy trip when my FO started a story with "dude, this one time in college I was so frickin' drunk...."

Sorry, just not interesting.

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

I found the exact opposite to be true.

If you get into the overnight at 10 pm, that gives a drinker 3-4 hours of bar time before last call, AND they don't have to get up for an early show.

Many people I flew with would pass on going out "drinking" if they have an early show.

By far, in my experience, the drinking and partying was done by the PM shift folks.

It's weird how this stuff is different from airline to airline, or even from domicile to domicile sometimes. I've only flown with one PM Captain that wanted to go out drinking, and virtually no FAs. The AM guys almost always do, though. But, we also have an 8-hour rule instead of a 12-hour rule, so if you've got a 6am show, you can keep going till 10pm.

[ElyJs]

If you don't want to go to college then don't go. I would take a very close look at your reasons for staying/leaving. The dorms can be tough. If you think that you are better than everyone because you think you are more focused, don't smoke, and don't drink you have some serious self evaluation to do.

I felt this same way my freshman and part of my sophomore year. I had 3 A- and a GPA of 3.98. Eventually I realized that I was missing out and the only one making myself unhappy was myself. I loosened up, my grades dropped a little, I got a misdemanor or two, but grew more as a person. This is part of maturity and growing up. I used to think when I was 19 that I was mature as 25 year old. You may be able to get along and be friends but you are not as mature (unless you had a kid or something crazy). I felt the same way. Now I realize that I am 22 and I have the maturity of a 22 year old. When I had 350 hours I thought I easily had the experience of someone with 1000 hours because it had all been cross country (literally from the east coast to west coast) hours. Now that I have 600 hours I realize that I have the experience level of a 600 hour pilot.

This thread and the one about regional hiring just kind of makes me laugh. Everyone is so concerned about flying for the airlines and moving on they never get to enjoy where they are at. Are you too good to work as a CFI? Are you too experienced to fly for a regional? Is that LCC paying you too little? Why are you stuck on domestic? I have never flown for an airline, but my QOL may never be much better than what it is right now. A big part of that is learning to enjoy life and realizing that if you live your life always looking at what better and whats below, your missing the point. I am still figuring all this out but most older more experienced pilots or anyone with more maturity has this figured out. I have a few friends that fly for netjets, another that has been flying for United since he was 22 and others. They are just at a different point in their careers and made different choices. No better no worse.

Ask a regional FO or even new captain and the general sentiment is you don't know ####. I am better than you and twice the pilot. This may be true, but I sure feel bad for those guys. Their values are based on whack principles. How about I am a happier more satisfied pilot than you? You don't really have to go to college or CFI. You will however enjoy or at least grow doing both of these things, I promise. I wasn't sold on either when I first began them. Right after I got my CFI I was wishing for some of my cash back. Now I can see the light a little bit more. Change schools, give it a chance.

-Jason

IMO Online classes are a waste. The only reason to take these is to check a box. You will learn nothing you couldn't learn from going to the library. If you really just want to check a box then go for it but I would rather spend my money on travel or something that will actually help me grow as a person. Life is more about the journey than the destination.