Ever had this feeling?

[N8081G]

I don't know about you but in order for me to pay for my flight training i took out loans. Right now i have my private licenses, instrument rated as well as a dispatcher's ticket but i recently applied for a loan to pay for my multi-commercial and CFIs. I have this really empty feeling in my stomach, pretty nervous feeling but i know at the end if all goes well i should have a rewarding career to pay it back off (after some years) Anyone ever had this feeling as in what if?? How did you felt when you took out so many loans knowing one day you will have to pay it all back together with interest? I wish i was John Travolta's son.

[flyingmaniac]

Well presently there are good CFI jobs that should pay pretty well. I'm pretty sure MOST pilots take out loans to pay for flying, even myself. It doesn't seem that bad repaying the loan back, the only thing hurting me now is training pay at ASA.

[pilotty]

It can be pretty sickening at times...I took out a bunch of loans to finish my ratings and am not enjoying paying them back. I am glad I did it though or else I would not have gotten into position to make this a career and I would be still on the other side of the fence dreaming about being a pilot. I didn't want the what if feeling or regret later on in life. It is just hard hearing that your friends make 50-100 grand a year doing something other and they have no loans or their parents paid their way...but hey just keep truckin...I don't think we will make 25 grand forever...

[Matt13C]

There will always be "what ifs". Every choice you make has a what if attached to it. As someone already said, I would rather be a pilot and ask myself what if I chose a different path to reaching this goal instead of asking what if I had tried to be a pilot. Choosing not to do something and take the same path as everyone else is easy, it is why many people have a mid life crisis.

[Chewie von Nubbins]

Methinks some SteveC advice will be along soon. The subject of loans on here is just as popular of a subject as the PFT/PFJ threads. Do a little digging and read some of those threads. No matter what you decide to actually do with dealing with loans, having a prospective from some people that have been doing this for quite a while and weighing their advice on the path you choose to take is probably one of the most valuable things that JC has to offer.

In regards to the "what if" feeling that you are talking about, I had a real lightbulb moment when I took my CFII ride with the FAA Inspector. After spending several hours doing the oral with him, we just returned back from a break. He asked me what my plan in aviation was going to be. I told him....you know, CFI / regional / major. He sat back, sighed deeply, and told me how he ended up at the FAA as an Inspector. In a nutshell, he explained that he had been furloughed a few times and lost his house and almost everything that he owned trying to make his same dream as mine work. But, he loved flying so much that he just couldn't seem to give it up. So, that is how he ended up with that FAA job that he hates doing. The only reason that he is doing that job is because of the stability of having a government job.

I, myself, am still suffering from commitment issues with doing this for a living full-time. I am about to start back at a full-time computer job making close to what I was making before I started my path from 0 TT almost a year ago (around 80k/yr). I want to pay off all my debt before pursuing this full-time for a living. I want to make sure that my wife and I can pay every single bill that we have each month on her salary alone. She is a school teacher here in TX. And, you have no idea how much it is killing me inside to have to go back to working a cube life for around a year and put this on hold. But, at this point in life, I think it is the most responsible thing that I can do. I am 35 yo now. I know that if I played my cards right that I could be on with a regional within a 2 month period. But, what happens if the price of fuel forces the airlines to cut back and start to furlough people? What happens if a few of the mainlines merge? I would bet that the furlough would include me and we would have to live on credit cards to fill in the deficit since I was no longer earning a paycheck flying an airplane for a living.

Sorry for the ramble, but I guess I had to get that off my chest.

[frog_flyer]

Dude, interest rates are so damn low right now, have at it.

[sixoneseven]

Originally Posted by N8081G

I have this really empty feeling in my stomach

You are not alone my friend! I feel the same way sometimes. Though I know 4 or 5 guys in for $100,000. Really makes my $25,000 debt look not so bad and seemingly close to a car loan.

[TexasFlyer]

Heck. I won't have any loans when I am finished with all my flight training. And I'll have no debt at all (truck, motorcycle, etc. is all paid for). I worked hard up until almost 35 years old to make that happen. I simply could not even figure out how to pay back a $30k loan at $300/month when bringing home only around $1,500 a month after taxes for several years. The math simply does not work if you must do it all alone with no help from a significant other or family.

And amazingly, here I am almost finished with my training. I have no debt, and my complete life savings will be totally brought to zero in the near future. And even I have an empty feeling in my stomach. After all, I'll be 35-36 years old. I'll have no debt, but at this age I'll also have zero life savings to my name. And I'll be living like a hermit for a good 5 years. And most likely, I'll incur some debt along the way since I'll have to take out some kind of credit in order to supplement my living expenses (sorry, but no matter how I work the numbers, even being debt free I burn through about $2,500 a month between rent, utilities, insurance, fuel, and food).

The unknown creates that empty feeling. But I'd rather take the chance, follow a passion, and have that empty feeling creep up at times versus get comfortable with life and dislike what I do every day. You see, in the ladder, the empty feeling becomes bitterness for not pursuing your passions.

So stick with it. You'll be okay. And even if times get tough, in the long run it'll be worth it if flying is your true passion. Too many people are left on their death bed saying, "I wish..." And that's a shame. I'd rather be saying, "what a ride!"

[Itchy]

I don't know if you ever bought a house, expensive car, whatever, but you will get the same feeling. It can be a big cloud over your head.

I for one, am dead set against taking loans out to get into this industry, but I also recognize that I am a bit negative on aviation. (someone has to be the devils advocate) The risk to reward ratio seems a bit low right now.

That being said, good luck! The feeling will sooner or later pass.

[troopernflight]

You basically have to sit down and do the numbers. Don't take out any loans that you can't repay while working for $10/hour. Because that may be where you end up if the industry takes a turn for the worse. It definitely helps to have a spouse that can hold a stable job with descent money coming in. I would be very apprehensive about going into this industry on my own with the fear of job loss and no other income. The loan companies do care about the bad circumstances that come your way. They will expect money every month, and they are not compassionate. Once your credit gets messed up, it will take years to recover. If numbers don't add up, you may need to wait until your life and financial situation is a little more stable. We sold our 200K house to move into a 90K house to make it work. It will take sacrifices. Good luck in whatever route you choose. You'll make it as long as you make wise choices and are diligent in your training!

[N8081G]

Initially, my plan was to become an Air Traffic Controller and pay for my flight training but ATC is a career in itself and i would've find it hard to give up around 70-80K a year, (after a couple years in the 40K range), to go fly for <25K a year as a regional pilot. So i crossed that out.

Next came Aircraft Dispatcher. The thing is i am under 23 but i already took and passed the FAA Oral exam, so on my 23rd. birthday i just go to a FSDO, hand in my letter and get my temporary. Right now i can work as an assistant but the pay won't be enough to pay for flight training and bills. So i crossed that out too.

I am now in my second to last semester in my college and i should be done in December. In 2006, i took out a loan and get my private licenses together with the instrument addon but now i just decided to bite the bullet and go all the way. In case of a furlong or anything of that sort, i always have my dispatchers ticket and CFI to fall back on, and i might even take the AT-SAT test and become a controller. I know it is much easier said than done but it is a plan..lol. So i thought about all of this when taking out the loan,..trying to comfort myself that i do have other options but they are all aviation related. Just have to hope for the best. If all comes to worse, i can use my charm and goodlooks to get an older, foxy millionaire that would pay for my loans and pamper me nicely, then tell her there is a slight age difference between us and move on Hey, just a thought!

[N8081G]

Originally Posted by Chewie von Nubbins

Methinks some SteveC advice will be along soon. The subject of loans on here is just as popular of a subject as the PFT/PFJ threads. Do a little digging and read some of those threads. No matter what you decide to actually do with dealing with loans, having a prospective from some people that have been doing this for quite a while and weighing their advice on the path you choose to take is probably one of the most valuable things that JC has to offer.

In regards to the "what if" feeling that you are talking about, I had a real lightbulb moment when I took my CFII ride with the FAA Inspector. After spending several hours doing the oral with him, we just returned back from a break. He asked me what my plan in aviation was going to be. I told him....you know, CFI / regional / major. He sat back, sighed deeply, and told me how he ended up at the FAA as an Inspector. In a nutshell, he explained that he had been furloughed a few times and lost his house and almost everything that he owned trying to make his same dream as mine work. But, he loved flying so much that he just couldn't seem to give it up. So, that is how he ended up with that FAA job that he hates doing. The only reason that he is doing that job is because of the stability of having a government job.

I, myself, am still suffering from commitment issues with doing this for a living full-time. I am about to start back at a full-time computer job making close to what I was making before I started my path from 0 TT almost a year ago (around 80k/yr). I want to pay off all my debt before pursuing this full-time for a living. I want to make sure that my wife and I can pay every single bill that we have each month on her salary alone. She is a school teacher here in TX. And, you have no idea how much it is killing me inside to have to go back to working a cube life for around a year and put this on hold. But, at this point in life, I think it is the most responsible thing that I can do. I am 35 yo now. I know that if I played my cards right that I could be on with a regional within a 2 month period. But, what happens if the price of fuel forces the airlines to cut back and start to furlough people? What happens if a few of the mainlines merge? I would bet that the furlough would include me and we would have to live on credit cards to fill in the deficit since I was no longer earning a paycheck flying an airplane for a living.

Sorry for the ramble, but I guess I had to get that off my chest.

Good read and best of luck to you. It's just interesting to see how much dedication we have to this passion of ours, yet face so much disappointments on our journey!

[N8081G]

Originally Posted by TexasFlyer

Heck. I won't have any loans when I am finished with all my flight training. And I'll have no debt at all (truck, motorcycle, etc. is all paid for). I worked hard up until almost 35 years old to make that happen. I simply could not even figure out how to pay back a $30k loan at $300/month when bringing home only around $1,500 a month after taxes for several years. The math simply does not work if you must do it all alone with no help from a significant other or family.

And amazingly, here I am almost finished with my training. I have no debt, and my complete life savings will be totally brought to zero in the near future. And even I have an empty feeling in my stomach. After all, I'll be 35-36 years old. I'll have no debt, but at this age I'll also have zero life savings to my name. And I'll be living like a hermit for a good 5 years. And most likely, I'll incur some debt along the way since I'll have to take out some kind of credit in order to supplement my living expenses (sorry, but no matter how I work the numbers, even being debt free I burn through about $2,500 a month between rent, utilities, insurance, fuel, and food).

The unknown creates that empty feeling. But I'd rather take the chance, follow a passion, and have that empty feeling creep up at times versus get comfortable with life and dislike what I do every day. You see, in the ladder, the empty feeling becomes bitterness for not pursuing your passions.

So stick with it. You'll be okay. And even if times get tough, in the long run it'll be worth it if flying is your true passion. Too many people are left on their death bed saying, "I wish..." And that's a shame. I'd rather be saying, "what a ride!"

That is really good to hear and thank you for the encouraging words. Must be a relief knowing you have no debts due to flight training! One of my friend is in the same situation as you. He is 30 years old and is paying for everything out of his pocket. It takes him longer but at the end he has one less thing to worry about.

[pilot4500]

I am glad that I earned all of my ratings when I did. That was back in 2001 and 2002. I got my Private, Instrument, Commercial ASEL and AMEL, CFI, and CFI-I and it only cost me $24,000 in tuition. I am sure that it would cost at least double that right now.

[tonyw]

Think it through, folks.

You're going to go into $25-50K in debt and you are going to be taking jobs that pay you $20K a year for a while.

And you're going to have to pay your debt as well as your living expenses on that.

Think you're going to be able to do that?

If you're not 100 percent sure, then don't do it. Slow it down and take your time. What's the rush?

[N8081G]

See this is a tricky situation. Those who pay from their own pockets usually end up getting where they want in a longer time frame. If asked what different route they would've chosen, many would say they would've started out younger.

[PGT]

I don't know about you guys but when I saw the title I thought of the song...

then this popped into my head