Skybus and the Teamsters

[surreal1221]

Hmm. . .now part of me doesn't think that's fair at all.

We may not like what PCL is saying (we used in the general sense) but I strongly disagree that anything he has said comes remotely close to what is seen on other forums.

Not everything is cotton-candy.

[Doug Taylor]

We're going to keep it informative and light on vitriol.

I hate Skybus as much as the next guy, but when the vitriol level rises to the point I don't want to read my own forum, that is a major problem because I write the checks.

[MQAAord]

It's not what he's saying, or the message he's trying to get across.

It's the juvenile name-calling & nastiness that we do not want here.

I think JC does a pretty good job of telling the good & the bad about things in the industry, but the good and the bad can be said without the distracting venom coating.

We have the opportunity to shape the future of this industry by shaping the minds of those to follow us. We have a better chance of reaching people via reasoned statements rather than poo-slinging.

[surreal1221]

Understandable.

Can we have a vitriol level indicator? That can be voted on daily by the members? A nice little gauge to tell how we are doing for the day?

Now that'd be kickass. A simple "Is the level up or down?" Two choices, Up, and Down. With a nice little themostat type graphic.

[Doug Taylor]

That'd be interesting!

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Hmm. . .now part of me doesn't think that's fair at all.

We may not like what PCL is saying (we used in the general sense) but I strongly disagree that anything he has said comes remotely close to what is seen on other forums.

Not everything is cotton-candy.

so you don't think using the term "scumbus" vs "skybus" is coming remotely close to what's seen on other forums? oh comeon now, even i know better than that....how often do you see terminology like this used in the aviation sections of JC? hardly never...so why start now?

[PCL_128]

I really can't believe that there's this much conversation about using the term "SkumBus."

[Doug Taylor]

I think they understand now.

The issue is that the average reader doesn't understand the background of why Skybus is detrimental to the aviation profession.

It's an emotional issue. There's a lot of angry people about what's going on there and things will be said... HOWEVER, I think it's important that we describe for the "silent user" the reasons why professional pilots are so emotional about doofus ops like Skybus.

Like the "Beech 1900 carrier named after a major flow of water on the east coast". Turning up the vitriol without background information on why is largely why we're losing that battle.

But then, it's largely a natural human reaction. Much like picking on Canadians!

OK, back to the topic at hand, move along, nothing to see here!

[surreal1221]

Scumbus I don't think has even reached a level seen on other forums. Only reference of that term in a search was this thread.

Try that at other forums (which will remain nameless) and I'm sure you'll find much higher numbers of the terms use.

Would it help these "blind users" if we had more documents / editorials / write-ups on the main page explaining the negative aspects of these companies?

I mean, there is one about PFJ/PFT and why that is bad for professional pilots.

[Cptnchia]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

I really can't believe that there's this much conversation about using the term "SkumBus."

Well, think of it as a gateway vitriol. You know, begin using Skumbus, then the next thing you know you're resorting to stronger words. Suddenly everyone is talking intervention and you get sent off to rehab.

[surreal1221]

Yeah - Amy Winehouse!

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by JDMcFly

I'd probably be willing to grab some water if I had to for $40 dollars an hour. But not on my own time, ever.

On the clock, I might consider it.

Off the clock, hell no.

For the record, I have come in on my days off before at work, but that was because I needed to finalize a few things in order to get a deal done and get a commission check.

If I was asked to come in on my day off to fill out TPS reports, I'd say can't they wait until the next day I'm working?

[WAFlyBoy]

Originally Posted by Kristie

...we'd rather you just appease us with our requests to keep this site civil, friendly and "warm".

Does that mean Velo can't post anymore? I'll miss his unbridled animosity!

[skydog]

So it's no longer enough to be union. Now it has to be the "right" union in order to have legitimacy conferred upon you by your fellows. And it apparently the person who is leading the union drive is also of critical importance.

90% want to sign union cards after only a couple of months on the job. That tells me that they always intended to unionize as soon as they could.

[PCL_128]

No, it just means that a bunch of pseudo-scabs undercut the rest of us in order to get ahead themselves, and then later realized just how much it sucks to make $30k a year.

[Rocketman99]

Originally Posted by skydog

So it's no longer enough to be union. Now it has to be the "right" union in order to have legitimacy conferred upon you by your fellows. And it apparently the person who is leading the union drive is also of critical importance.

90% want to sign union cards after only a couple of months on the job. That tells me that they always intended to unionize as soon as they could.

To you maybe. What it tells me is that the idiots that went there in the first place have finally realized that mgt there could care less and the operation is a joke. The sooner that airline is gone the better. Good riddance. Unfortunately it seems places like that are just like weeds. Pluck one and then another one pops up in its place with more pilots rushing over to destroy what's left of the industry. All the while they're using whatever reasoning they can think of to help the feel better and sleep at night. Not wholly unlike the ones who choose to cross a picket line. No wonder people like Velo call them proto-scabs!

What's really sad though is that even when you go through the trials of laying out all the reasons an airline like that is worthless you STILL get folks to argue that it's not really true. Like the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water...

[jtrain609]

Hey I like Canadians, they're nice folks! I'm spending 31 hours with them up in Moncton right now.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

No, it just means that a bunch of pseudo-scabs undercut the rest of us in order to get ahead themselves, and then later realized just how much it sucks to make $30k a year.

As someone earlier pointed out, Skybus is heavily populated with Gojet guys. What does that tell you?

Originally Posted by Rocketman99

To you maybe. What it tells me is that the idiots that went there in the first place have finally realized that mgt there could care less and the operation is a joke. The sooner that airline is gone the better. Good riddance.

Unfortunately it seems places like that are just like weeds. Pluck one and then another one pops up in its place with more pilots rushing over to destroy what's left of the industry. All the while they're using whatever reasoning they can think of to help the feel better and sleep at night. Not wholly unlike the ones who choose to cross a picket line. No wonder people like Velo call them proto-scabs!

What's really sad though is that even when you go through the trials of laying out all the reasons an airline like that is worthless you STILL get folks to argue that it's not really true. Like the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water...

I love you guys!

[Kingairer]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

No, it just means that a bunch of pseudo-scabs undercut the rest of us in order to get ahead themselves, and then later realized just how much it sucks to make $30k a year.

Sounds like some other airline.

[DE727UPS]

"I'm hearing that the pilot who got the IBT drive going at SkumBus was the same GoJet pseudo-scab that brought the IBT to GoJet"

Is that anything like a Gulfstream PFJer who becomes an ALPA Mec rep at Pinnacle?

I'm no fan of Skybus, but I tire of PCL's attitude, given his background....

By definition, Velo and PCL have no anti-Skybus argument if Skybus votes in a union. Or, will the all non-ALPA pilots now get booted off Velo's jumpseat?

Time will tell. I hope Skybus goes union and I hope they raise the bar. Funny thing is, I'm old enough to remember when Southwest was scorned as the low pay operation that was bringing down the biz. And they were union.....

And now they pay better than Alaska?

Strange times.....

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"I'm hearing that the pilot who got the IBT drive going at SkumBus was the same GoJet pseudo-scab that brought the IBT to GoJet"

Is that anything like a Gulfstream PFJer who becomes an ALPA Mec rep at Pinnacle?

No, not really. He brought the IBT to GoJet at the direction of management so they could keep ALPA off the property. For all we know, he's doing the same thing in this situation.

I tire of PCL's attitude

I love you too, Don.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Understandable.

Can we have a vitriol level indicator? That can be voted on daily by the members? A nice little gauge to tell how we are doing for the day?

Now that'd be kickass. A simple "Is the level up or down?" Two choices, Up, and Down. With a nice little themostat type graphic.

Yeah, but then we might wind up with a TSA-style "The current Vitriol Level is ORANGE- ELEVATED".

[skydog]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

For all we know, he's doing the same thing in this situation.

And that's the real trick isn't it. We don't KNOW what is happening over at Skybus, we can only speculate.

I see no difference between Skybus and any other start-up airline. You gotta start somewhere. If they're successful, pay and benefits will come up. If not, than what they paid will not matter.

[zmiller4]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

No, it just means that a bunch of pseudo-scabs undercut the rest of us in order to get ahead themselves, and then later realized just how much it sucks to make $30k a year.

So, if a pseudo-scab goes to a scumbag airline to undercut other pilots and then realizes it was a mistake, are they still a scumbag themselves?

Wouldn't you say that it's possible for someone who makes a terrible mistake that hurts the profession to redeem themselves by attempting to improve things at their airline through unionization?

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by Firebird2XC

Yeah, but then we might wind up with a TSA-style "The current Vitriol Level is ORANGE- ELEVATED".

NO!!!!11 NOT VITRIOL LEVEL ELEVATED!!!