Pinnacle Scope.

phoenix 23684 · March 10th, 2008, 14:23

We just had a visit from Buddy and I asked him about the arbitration and he said that it is all untrue and that no such thing will take place, the two companies will remain separate with Pinnacle flying jets and Colgan the props.

Any one from Pinnacle with an insight on what their union/MEC is saying? I know pinnacle Corp will fight this decision. I'm hoping things do happen since it will definitely better us at Colgan having a Union.

higney85 · March 10th, 2008, 15:01

While I have no "inside Info" as a 9E pilot I have stayed informed with EVERYTHING the MEC has given us in regards to the arbitrator rulings. As I understand the ruling that the head of our MEC read to us the ruling was cut and dry that Pinnacle Corp violated our scope agreement in our CBA. The ruling also had the provision that the issue would stay under the arbitrator's control. I don't have a word-for-word to cut and paste but mgmt will undoubtedly attempt to appeal the ruling. With that being said I would expect that the company mgmt will try and downplay the ruling and make efforts to get all the employees to be against the pilots with more propaganda against us. It would also be in mgmt's interests to try and make the colgan pilots feel they are better off in their hands opposed to being under the ALPA banner. I wish everyone the best at Colgan but I do feel the 9L pilots are going to be played like a pawn with every other employee towards the 9E pilots.

Basically look at BC, look at his background and his connections. He is mgmt and by that connection he is bound to try and help them in their plan for the board and shareholders. I would not doubt that Colgan will fly the props and Pinnacle will fly the jets- but the ruling is not something mgmt gets the option to ignore or push back. I am not a lawyer and I didn't even stay at a holiday inn express last night but this is a rather cut and dry ruling.

kellwolf · March 10th, 2008, 15:52

If it were untrue, I highly doubt management would have said "Here's $15 million to allocate however you want in the contract, but we want this scope thing fixed our way." Of course the neogitating committee said "No, but thanks for letting us know you've got at least $15 million to play with."

Fact: arbitrator ruled that they were in violation of the scope clause. Fact: arbitrator said he would stick with it to make sure they stuck to the ruling.

I'm not exactly sure what options they have at this point considering it's BINDING arbitration. My understanding is that you can't appeal it, but maybe some of the labor law gurus can jump in with more info.

You've just seen another example first hand of how this management team will lie to get what they want. They told us the NWA flying was gone and being awarded to Mesaba if we didn't sign their crappy deal. A week later the groundbreak ASA with NWA was announced. The said we'd never get any outside flying if we didn't sign. Then they announced Delta and the -900s. They KNEW about both of those deals beforehand, and still said they weren't going to happen to try to get us to sign a deal.

PCL_128 · March 10th, 2008, 16:34

I keep in touch with several members of the PCL MEC, including the Chairman. Keep this in mind: if Buddy "f---er" Casey's lips are moving, then he's lying. This case is no exception. The MEC is making sure that ALPA Legal does an extremely thorough review of the language in the arbitration award before releasing anything to either pilot group. As soon as that review is complete, the information will be disseminated. Suffice it to say that Buddy is lying to you, as always.

jynxyjoe · March 10th, 2008, 18:00

I would suggest never listening to a God damned thing out of George "notmybuddy" Casey mouth.

blee256 · March 10th, 2008, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellwolf

If it were untrue, I highly doubt management would have said "Here's $15 million to allocate however you want in the contract, but we want this scope thing fixed our way." Of course the neogitating committee said "No, but thanks for letting us know you've got at least $15 million to play with."

um, huh?

PCL_128 · March 10th, 2008, 19:24

He's talking about the last set of negotiations that happened right after the scope ruling came in. Management suddenly changed their position and said that the union could apportion an extra $15 million anywhere they want in the agreement.......as long as they gave in on scope. The NC refused, of course.

Firebird2XC · March 10th, 2008, 20:33

Fry the bastiches!

If somebody from Colgan management is saying something about the Scope ruling, THEY ARE LYING.

Colgan has been feeding pilots BS to get them to buy into substandard working conditions and situations for years.

Why would they stop now?

kfn091 · March 11th, 2008, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCL_128

I keep in touch with several members of the PCL MEC, including the Chairman. Keep this in mind: if Buddy "f---er" Casey's lips are moving, then he's lying. This case is no exception. The MEC is making sure that ALPA Legal does an extremely thorough review of the language in the arbitration award before releasing anything to either pilot group. As soon as that review is complete, the information will be disseminated. Suffice it to say that Buddy is lying to you, as always.

Chuck Colgan is a piece of work too. He has NO experience being in Human Resources ..I think he was a plumber or something before being hired into the Colgan company!I have never seen anyone sooo unprofessional in all my life!!

The other recruiter Karen is clueless LOL. She is so fake and she cannot think for herself! She is so far up Chuckie's arse!It is hysterical!Talk about clueless!!I have never seen anyone soo scatterbrained.It is amazing she is a recruiter.She cannot even spell on their website! They spell equipment with two t's! Hello, it is a website where many people peruse and their own employees who work in HR cannot even use SPELL CHECK!
I do not see Pinnacle lasting .....it's all about the almighty dollar for THEM not the employees.

phoenix 23684 · March 11th, 2008, 14:55

Thanks for some of the inputs, I figured management is trying to down play the arbitration. Please let us know as soon as ALPA releases the details of the scope. I also do hope that pilots at both groups don't let management pinned us against each other, I chose to fly turboprops for a reason and have no desire to take a job away from a pinnacle pilot, but I think it will benefit both groups to be under one umbrella and union.

grnclvrs · March 11th, 2008, 15:59

Has the scope clause been TA'd in 9E's negotiations?

PCL_128 · March 11th, 2008, 16:59

Nope. That will probably go to the end along with compensation.

Airdale · March 11th, 2008, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebird2XC

Fry the bastiches!

If somebody from Colgan management is saying something about the Scope ruling, THEY ARE LYING.

Colgan has been feeding pilots BS to get them to buy into substandard working conditions and situations for years.

Why would they stop now?

Much better looking in, than looking out. Wouldn't you agree?

March 10th, 2008, 14:23	#1
phoenix 23684 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 129	Pinnacle Scope. We just had a visit from Buddy and I asked him about the arbitration and he said that it is all untrue and that no such thing will take place, the two companies will remain separate with Pinnacle flying jets and Colgan the props. Any one from Pinnacle with an insight on what their union/MEC is saying? I know pinnacle Corp will fight this decision. I'm hoping things do happen since it will definitely better us at Colgan having a Union.

March 10th, 2008, 15:01	#2
higney85 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Memphis,TN Posts: 445	Re: Pinnacle Scope. While I have no "inside Info" as a 9E pilot I have stayed informed with EVERYTHING the MEC has given us in regards to the arbitrator rulings. As I understand the ruling that the head of our MEC read to us the ruling was cut and dry that Pinnacle Corp violated our scope agreement in our CBA. The ruling also had the provision that the issue would stay under the arbitrator's control. I don't have a word-for-word to cut and paste but mgmt will undoubtedly attempt to appeal the ruling. With that being said I would expect that the company mgmt will try and downplay the ruling and make efforts to get all the employees to be against the pilots with more propaganda against us. It would also be in mgmt's interests to try and make the colgan pilots feel they are better off in their hands opposed to being under the ALPA banner. I wish everyone the best at Colgan but I do feel the 9L pilots are going to be played like a pawn with every other employee towards the 9E pilots. Basically look at BC, look at his background and his connections. He is mgmt and by that connection he is bound to try and help them in their plan for the board and shareholders. I would not doubt that Colgan will fly the props and Pinnacle will fly the jets- but the ruling is not something mgmt gets the option to ignore or push back. I am not a lawyer and I didn't even stay at a holiday inn express last night but this is a rather cut and dry ruling.

March 10th, 2008, 15:52	#3
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,229	Re: Pinnacle Scope. If it were untrue, I highly doubt management would have said "Here's $15 million to allocate however you want in the contract, but we want this scope thing fixed our way." Of course the neogitating committee said "No, but thanks for letting us know you've got at least $15 million to play with." Fact: arbitrator ruled that they were in violation of the scope clause. Fact: arbitrator said he would stick with it to make sure they stuck to the ruling. I'm not exactly sure what options they have at this point considering it's BINDING arbitration. My understanding is that you can't appeal it, but maybe some of the labor law gurus can jump in with more info. You've just seen another example first hand of how this management team will lie to get what they want. They told us the NWA flying was gone and being awarded to Mesaba if we didn't sign their crappy deal. A week later the groundbreak ASA with NWA was announced. The said we'd never get any outside flying if we didn't sign. Then they announced Delta and the -900s. They KNEW about both of those deals beforehand, and still said they weren't going to happen to try to get us to sign a deal. __________________ "I'm The Doctor, by the way. Run for your life!"

March 10th, 2008, 16:34	#4
PCL_128 Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ATL Posts: 3,212	Re: Pinnacle Scope. I keep in touch with several members of the PCL MEC, including the Chairman. Keep this in mind: if Buddy "f---er" Casey's lips are moving, then he's lying. This case is no exception. The MEC is making sure that ALPA Legal does an extremely thorough review of the language in the arbitration award before releasing anything to either pilot group. As soon as that review is complete, the information will be disseminated. Suffice it to say that Buddy is lying to you, as always. __________________ Not one nickel, not one job. No concessions!

March 10th, 2008, 18:00	#5
jynxyjoe Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Memphis Posts: 662	Re: Pinnacle Scope. I would suggest never listening to a God damned thing out of George "notmybuddy" Casey mouth. __________________ Rule #8: No matter how responsible he seems, never give your gun to a monkey.

March 10th, 2008, 19:24	#7
PCL_128 Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ATL Posts: 3,212	Re: Pinnacle Scope. He's talking about the last set of negotiations that happened right after the scope ruling came in. Management suddenly changed their position and said that the union could apportion an extra $15 million anywhere they want in the agreement.......as long as they gave in on scope. The NC refused, of course. __________________ Not one nickel, not one job. No concessions!

March 10th, 2008, 20:33	#8
Firebird2XC Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Big D Posts: 1,322	Re: Pinnacle Scope. Fry the bastiches! If somebody from Colgan management is saying something about the Scope ruling, THEY ARE LYING. Colgan has been feeding pilots BS to get them to buy into substandard working conditions and situations for years. Why would they stop now? __________________ “The conduct of TSA was cruel and unnecessary,” said Ms Allred. “The last time that I checked a nipple was not a dangerous weapon.” - Charlie (credentials in profile)

March 11th, 2008, 14:55	#10
phoenix 23684 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 129	Re: Pinnacle Scope. Thanks for some of the inputs, I figured management is trying to down play the arbitration. Please let us know as soon as ALPA releases the details of the scope. I also do hope that pilots at both groups don't let management pinned us against each other, I chose to fly turboprops for a reason and have no desire to take a job away from a pinnacle pilot, but I think it will benefit both groups to be under one umbrella and union.

March 11th, 2008, 15:59	#11
grnclvrs Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: LAS Posts: 99	Re: Pinnacle Scope. Has the scope clause been TA'd in 9E's negotiations?

March 11th, 2008, 16:59	#12
PCL_128 Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ATL Posts: 3,212	Re: Pinnacle Scope. Nope. That will probably go to the end along with compensation. __________________ Not one nickel, not one job. No concessions!

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