Hired with low time

[LoadMasterC141]

If your friends did not get an RJ course, they will get sent to a very lengthy FSA ERJ course.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

If your friends did not get an RJ course, they will get sent to a very lengthy FSA ERJ course.

But I think AE pays for it, so that is a GOOD THING!!

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

But I think AE pays for it, so that is a GOOD THING!!

Yes they do!!

[JaceTheAce]

I got hired with low time too (201TT and 33ME). I do believe I had a disadvantage coming into training with my lack of experience, but I did get through it all okay. I kept a positive attitude and focused as much as I could. Now I have around 510TT and 290ME, mostly Part 121 turboprop... and I still feel I have lots more to learn.

[GalaxyIFE]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

I got hired with low time too (201TT and 33ME). I do believe I had a disadvantage coming into training with my lack of experience, but I did get through it all okay. I kept a positive attitude and focused as much as I could. Now I have around 510TT and 290ME, mostly Part 121 turboprop... and I still feel I have lots more to learn.

Dude, when you stop learning...find a new job 'cause you are officially dangerous at that point.

200TT...holy crap!!! Not saying if it's right or wrong, just man how things change.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by GalaxyIFE

Dude, when you stop learning...find a new job 'cause you are officially dangerous at that point.

200TT...holy crap!!! Not saying if it's right or wrong, just man how things change.

As pilots we are always learning - and we all still have lots to learn! We learn new things everyday. What's wrong with that?

I wish I were as perfect as you - knowing everything you need to know to be a perfect professional airline pilot!

[Pilot84]

Just thought I'd share that I have two friends that just got hired at AE. One with 290TT and barely 20 ME, and the other with 380TT and 45ME.

Crazy isn't it. All they did was send their resumes in and apply. No special connections or anything. I guess their published mins of 400TT and 50ME aren't set in stone

How did they just send in their resumes? I thought Eagle only uses AirlineApss to recieve applications. And if so, I thought that the system filters off anyone who is below certain hour mins. Just wondering.

[cfii2007]

I was wondering that too.......airlineapps is a major pain!

[X-Forces]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

If your friends did not get an RJ course, they will get sent to a very lengthy FSA ERJ course.

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

But I think AE pays for it, so that is a GOOD THING!!

Actually, we have 6 AE funded CRJ course attendees right here at the moment, they started today.

I know that these guys are low time AE hires that have been sent here for RJ training.

Maybe these guys are a couple of them?

[ready2fly]

I love Floyd!

That is all.

[777forever]

The question isn't about low time or high time, its more of is the person an idiot or not an idiot.

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by 777forever

The question isn't about low time or high time, its more of is the person an idiot or not an idiot.

Unfortunately, sometimes it is a question of "low time or high time..." especially when it comes to peoples lives.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by 777forever

The question isn't about low time or high time, its more of is the person an idiot or not an idiot.

I partially agree with your assertion and partially disagree.

Intelligence does certainly help someone get through training. There's material to be learned, flows and patterns and procedures to be memorized, and there is pressure to complete all of this successfully. A low-time smart person should be able to get through training.

You use the word "idiot" so I will too. There are plenty of idiots out there that are safe pilots. Why? Because they do know enough to follow the procedures. They might be a little slow in the judgment department but they don't break the rules and that is enough to keep someone safe if there is enough experience for them to reflect on and use to get themselves through their current situation.

A 200TT/20ME who is the smartest in their whole company going into ORD during a blizzard isn't really able to do anything more with his or her brain than sit there and do what they know to do. There's a bit more to it than just sitting there, though, as we all know. It takes a while to get a feel for how airplanes handle in different situations.

It is up to the FAA to adjust the minimum for the 121 cockpit to an appropriate level for today's hiring environment.

Is anyone else starting to get the feeling that these minimums aren't going to last much longer though? Maybe I'm the only one or maybe I'm not. I don't see it last much more than another year. Many of the regionals are nearly done growing.

[GalaxyIFE]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

As pilots we are always learning - and we all still have lots to learn! We learn new things everyday. What's wrong with that?

I wish I were as perfect as you - knowing everything you need to know to be a perfect professional airline pilot!

I hope there was some sarcasm there and I missed it 'cause I sure as hell am not perfect and I don't think I came across as being such...I can give you my ex-wife's phone number; she'll back me up! Heck, most of the old heads I fly with have forgotten more about the plane than I know!!!

My point was just that...you should ALWAYS be learning...the day you think you know it all you need to find a new line of work. OK, maybe that came out the way I wanted it. It was a general statement and wasn't directed at you per se.

[MFT1Air]

Originally Posted by 777forever

The question isn't about low time or high time, its more of is the person an idiot or not an idiot.

[MFT1Air]

Originally Posted by Nick

I partially agree with your assertion and partially disagree.

Intelligence does certainly help someone get through training. There's material to be learned, flows and patterns and procedures to be memorized, and there is pressure to complete all of this successfully. A low-time smart person should be able to get through training.

You use the word "idiot" so I will too. There are plenty of idiots out there that are safe pilots. Why? Because they do know enough to follow the procedures. They might be a little slow in the judgment department but they don't break the rules and that is enough to keep someone safe if there is enough experience for them to reflect on and use to get themselves through their current situation.

A 200TT/20ME who is the smartest in their whole company going into ORD during a blizzard isn't really able to do anything more with his or her brain than sit there and do what they know to do. There's a bit more to it than just sitting there, though, as we all know. It takes a while to get a feel for how airplanes handle in different situations.

It is up to the FAA to adjust the minimum for the 121 cockpit to an appropriate level for today's hiring environment.

Is anyone else starting to get the feeling that these minimums aren't going to last much longer though? Maybe I'm the only one or maybe I'm not. I don't see it last much more than another year. Many of the regionals are nearly done growing.

as well! (Hey, shuttle just launched.) It's late!

[sigpilot]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

I got hired with low time too (201TT and 33ME). I do believe I had a disadvantage coming into training with my lack of experience, but I did get through it all okay. I kept a positive attitude and focused as much as I could. Now I have around 510TT and 290ME, mostly Part 121 turboprop... and I still feel I have lots more to learn.

atleast you know that and aren't like some 250hr wonders "Dude I didn't need to instruct, I pretty much know everything about flyin' anyways and I'm so sick of these little planes!"

There are bad 250hr pilots out there, but there are also bad 2500hr pilots as well. I feel you can train a low time guy to fly a plane and maybe he/she is an ace, but the difference between the two is DECISION MAKING AND EXPERIENCE! Can't subsitute a one week RJ course for that.

Its also hard for a lot of us to talk bad about low time cause when I got my first 121 job I had 700TT/300ME. 5-10 years ago everyone needed 2500hrs so I would have been a "low-timer", but 250 is a little nuts when you hear about stories from the captains. The cockpit of a airliner should not be the place where you learn to fly, its where you build upon what you already have learned.

[beechpilot84]

Quote:
Originally Posted by beechpilot84 (Hired with low time)
I think the FAA should make 121 requirements the same as 135. 1200tt to fly boxes and 300 tt to fly people, doesnt make sense.

You're making an apples (PIC) to oranges (SIC) comparison. That 1200 TT to fly boxes is for a PIC; the PIC under 121 has to have 1500 hrs and an ATP. The apples-to-apples comparison would be 135 SIC to 121 SIC; there are no experience requirements for either.
__________________


I wasn't making a comparison, I was stating an opinion.

[TXaviator]

come on guys, how else are us new guys supposed to pay off that 100k in student loans....

buying a new car/house? pfft...forget it!

im gradually starting to change my outlook and be eager to jump on that pay ladder ASAfreakinP just so i can financially afford to BE A PILOT. :-\

[N8081G]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

come on guys, how else are us new guys supposed to pay off that 100k in student loans....

buying a new car/house? pfft...forget it!

im gradually starting to change my outlook and be eager to jump on that pay ladder ASAfreakinP just so i can financially afford to BE A PILOT. :-\

Ouch!! 100K in student loans..that makes me feel better since i'm a lot less than that!!


As for the guys who got hired..just congratulate them for me. Hopefully it won't get to their heads thinking that because they are hired with low times they are the "best". Also it is a wise idea to instruct, i do agree but it depends on the person's position at that particular moment. Perhaps they can't afford to get the CFI so they went ahead and work for the regionals. It won't hurt to get their CFI ticket at a later date to better educate themselves.., nor is it right to assume they are not competent because they have such low time. Hopefully it'll work out for the best!

[Firebird2XC]

I'm curious- the military puts 0 time pilots through training. By the time they get cut loose to fly the line don't they only have a few hundred hours?

It's the quality of the training received and how well the individual applies it. Greater total time usually implies a more experienced, seasoned pilot, true- but it doesn't mean that a low time pilot will always be uncapable.

On the other hand, I flew with a captain the other day who said that he flew with an FO that didn't want to fly any legs. He said the FO was afraid of the jet.

>shrugs<

[Firebird2XC]

I'm curious- the military puts 0 time pilots through training. By the time they get cut loose to fly the line don't they only have a few hundred hours?

It's the quality of the training received and how well the individual applies it. Greater total time usually implies a more experienced, seasoned pilot, true- but it doesn't mean that a low time pilot will always be uncapable.

On the other hand, I flew with a captain the other day who said that he flew with an FO that didn't want to fly any legs. He said the FO was afraid of the jet.

>shrugs<

You get a year of probation here- and a checkride at the end of that year. You get a fair shake to prove yourself on the line. Captains get evaluations for us new hires that print out with the release. All they have to do is fill in the blocks and turn it in.

At year's end, the non-hackers will wash out. Those that have stepped up and met the standard will enter year 2, regardless of whether or not they're low or high time.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by Firebird2XC

I'm curious- the military puts 0 time pilots through training. By the time they get cut loose to fly the line don't they only have a few hundred hours?

Yeah, but that's an apples to oranges comparison as well. Even if we're not talking about quality, just the selection process alone is going to make a heck of a difference.

And I'm really talking about the AF or the Navy - clearly the Army will let just about anyone be a helo pilot.

[CaptainChris87]

Originally Posted by faceof5

Just thought I'd share that I have two friends that just got hired at AE. One with 290TT and barely 20 ME, and the other with 380TT and 45ME.

Crazy isn't it. All they did was send their resumes in and apply. No special connections or anything. I guess their published mins of 400TT and 50ME aren't set in stone

Did they come from Aviation universities or some type of bridge program? Are they also 21+?

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by Ian J

Yeah, but that's an apples to oranges comparison as well. Even if we're not talking about quality, just the selection process alone is going to make a heck of a difference.

And I'm really talking about the AF or the Navy - clearly the Army will let just about anyone be a helo pilot.

I know you poke fun at yourself here- but I saw some real clowns climb into UH-60 cockpits before I got out.

One guy actually asked me "Hey there, Sarge.. what do you think I could be doing better? I'm a fixed wing CFI and all that stuff... I've got a few hundred hours as a pilot already. Why can't I hack it?"

We were doing closed pattern training and the IP simulated an engine failure. Mind you, we've got two damned engines. He asks the pilot I mentioned above for memory items. He starts sputtering nonsense that included things like "Jettison cockpit doors". I later told him if he actually HAD jettisoned my doors, I'd have told him to go after them. He also said something about landing off airport. That was REALLY funny, because we were IN THE DOWNWIND AT AN AIRPORT. One with a huge runway, too.

This points out a few things:

1) Yes, there are places that will take applicants with less skills than even some of the more desperate regional airlines...
2) Being a CFI can help you be a better pilot- but this is NOT always true, contrary to what some might say.
3) UH-60s rule. Chinooks drool!