Expressjet offering COLAs (voluntary furloughs) to pilots...

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

The hours won't magically get you a job, that's right! Keep in mind, even if you get the interview you still have to pass the interview. Attitude, personality, test scores & the sim ride all contribute to getting that job.

Heck, the hours don't even magically get you an interview.

[crashmbern]

You mean UPS, FedEx, or Delta won't be at my door with a job offer when I get 1000 TPIC??????

[SoCalAprch]

To start off I hope everything turns out good for everyone over there at Xjet. Its amazing how things can change in just a year. Also for some of you guys in the know after your COLA are you guaranteed a position when the 3 months is up? Or can they just say "sorry, flying didn't pick up your SOL, keep waiting and we will call you when we need you." I know with the F word you just wait until they call you back.

Its good to see the positive attitudes towards the whole situation from the Xjeters. I don't really see it as nice and happy as you guys though. This isn't a good thing at all in my humble opinion. This is just the start. I see what some are saying about how they hired to many and all but jeez that kool aid much taste excellent. And I hate hate hate to say it but if you wanna be competitive you gotta lower prices. The majors don't give two ####s whether or not you have good work rules or happy pilots. They only care about how much money they are going to be saving by using your airline. Someone earlier said its good to see Xjet not lowering prices to gain that flying back. I disagree, they should be doing anything necessary to get that flying back. If you don't have flying then you aren't getting paid and pilots are going to start to loosing their jobs and it won't be voluntary. I know first hand that it is possible for an airline to stay competitive and keep their employees happy.

Good luck to all involved...

PS CLE is opening in April for Republic (CHQ side).

[MQAAord]

Generally speaking, a leave like that is bid for a specific amount of time. 3 months for example. After 3 months is up, you go back to work. If your landings aren't current, they may send you to sim for a day or so.

If you're contractually protected, they can not abrogate senority by furloughing out of senority like that. If involuntary absences are required, that must be done in accordance with the CBA. Which means junior people go first.

[surreal1221]

Wow. . .

Really guys/gals. . .if Proud Pilot wants to keep that mindset, then so be it.

Just remember the moment you see him walking across your picket line to treat him accordingly.

Best of luck Proud Pilot. I hope, for the good of the profession, you start treating it with some respect.

In other news

Anyone notice how Chris_Ford hasn't made another comment . . .hmm. . .the cat is finally out of the bag. Mr. Incognito no longer.

[yardman]

As one sits back and look at ExpressJet...........is it at all possible that the same scenario can rare its ugly head at other "decent" regionals?s this sign of the times.......is the cycle finally moving in-line with the economy? Food for thought.

[surreal1221]

Most "decent" regionals are not out there trying to suceed with a business model that has failed once before.

More importantly, it should be known that it is extremely hard, nearly impossible, to turn a profit flying 50 seat (jet) aircraft around anymore.

But hey - they tried, and as of today - the company is still around. I wish them the best of luck and success.

Someone referenced changing Delta/Continental flying environment.

Delta has already told Skywest Inc. that they plan on downsizing their DCI carriers, from 8 to 4.

Some companies will lose, others will win. Nothing against the good pilots and employees of XJT, but I think they will be on the losing side of that coin.

[SoCalAprch]

One good thing I guess, is that there are still jobs around out there. What worrys me the most is if my airline starts F wording and we are the last to do it all the other jobs will have dried up. If this boom as a whole stops all the other instructing/patrol jobs will start to dry up and if you are the last guy to get Furloughed you are gonna be up a crap creek with no paddle.

And ProudPilot, Im assuming you are young and just starting to educate yourself about this industry. Stop thinking with such a self centered mind set. Try to look at the big picture. Don't think of regionals as just a form of time building to get you to the majors. With that attitude the hiring will stop and you will be begging for a regional job. Karma can be a biatch... Send a PM to DE727 he will be happy to enlighten you to what it used to be like and very well may turn back into... Don't take anything for granted in this industry. Just ask the Xjet guys who thought that they were working for the cushyiest regional just a year ago. Things change quick...

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by yardman

As one sits back and look at ExpressJet...........is it at all possible that the same scenario can rare its ugly head at other "decent" regionals?s this sign of the times.......is the cycle finally moving in-line with the economy? Food for thought.

that truly is food for thought!! A lot of cycles are going to start meeting up with the economy soon, we'll just have to see what happens.

[777forever]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

To start off I hope everything turns out good for everyone over there at Xjet. Its amazing how things can change in just a year. Also for some of you guys in the know after your COLA are you guaranteed a position when the 3 months is up? Or can they just say "sorry, flying didn't pick up your SOL, keep waiting and we will call you when we need you." I know with the F word you just wait until they call you back.

Its good to see the positive attitudes towards the whole situation from the Xjeters. I don't really see it as nice and happy as you guys though. This isn't a good thing at all in my humble opinion. This is just the start. I see what some are saying about how they hired to many and all but jeez that kool aid much taste excellent. And I hate hate hate to say it but if you wanna be competitive you gotta lower prices. The majors don't give two ####s whether or not you have good work rules or happy pilots. They only care about how much money they are going to be saving by using your airline. Someone earlier said its good to see Xjet not lowering prices to gain that flying back. I disagree, they should be doing anything necessary to get that flying back. If you don't have flying then you aren't getting paid and pilots are going to start to loosing their jobs and it won't be voluntary. I know first hand that it is possible for an airline to stay competitive and keep their employees happy.

Good luck to all involved...

PS CLE is opening in April for Republic (CHQ side).

Well, XJET did lower their price to secure the 2 year Delta flying. I wonder how profitable that is for them...

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by 777forever

Well, XJET did lower their price to secure the 2 year Delta flying. I wonder how profitable that is for them...

Well they need to run a leaner middle management. Im not one of the arm chair CEOs over at A.net but other regionals are very competitive and have good QOL and pay. I admit that if you wanna get ahold of someone about your parking pass you are gonna go through a 5 day ordeal but I would rather have that then lowering my pay or loosing flying. How does Skywest or Republic always seem to offer the best prices yet still post the biggest profits and keep their crews happy? Everyones playing the same game...

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

In other news

Anyone notice how Chris_Ford hasn't made another comment . . .hmm. . .the cat is finally out of the bag. Mr. Incognito no longer.

There's no cat, there's no bag. My internet has just been beyond crappy for the last few days. It's getting fixed this afternoon, I'll be back in full swing tonight. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Sorry, train, but when you have to scramble to replace almost 20% of your business, its a major hit.

But you keep sippin' that Kool-Aid and hope they get enough volunteers, because if they don't, the involuntary furloughs are sure to follow.

Well what do you want Velo, guys working for the lowest bidder who undercuts YOUR flying and does it without a union but is assured to have a job? Or do you want folks trying to raise the bar and as Bob said very accurately, not dropping rates so we can suck off CAL's tit a little bit more?

Do you want pay rates or security? Because they don't seem to go hand in hand. For somebody that bashes JetBlue pilots it appalls me that you'll say, "Oh, well, we saw this all coming!" because the necessary implication is that ExpressJet pays their pilots too well and costs too much.

Point and shoot all you want, you'll just show yourself to be a hypocrite.

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

And I hate hate hate to say it but if you wanna be competitive you gotta lower prices.

They could start by undercutting CHQ. Close that CLE base right back up (yeah it's wrong to think that...bad for the industry...and stuff)

Though the good news is I heard my university is short on CFIs..and the pay would only be a couple bucks an hour under my hourly rate here. Although I am only flying 3-4 days a month right now, and as a CFI it would be back to 7 days a week 15 hours a day. Yeah we're a little overstaffed at xjet...I figured living in base with 25+ days off a month could only last for so long.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Well what do you want Velo, guys working for the lowest bidder who undercuts YOUR flying and does it without a union but is assured to have a job? Or do you want folks trying to raise the bar and as Bob said very accurately, not dropping rates so we can suck off CAL's tit a little bit more?

Do you want pay rates or security? Because they don't seem to go hand in hand. For somebody that bashes JetBlue pilots it appalls me that you'll say, "Oh, well, we saw this all coming!" because the necessary implication is that ExpressJet pays their pilots too well and costs too much.

Point and shoot all you want, you'll just show yourself to be a hypocrite.

And Velo gets owned by the first year FO...

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

And Velo gets owned by the first year FO...

Hardly. I don't see anywhere that Velo stated he was happy at ExpressJet losing some flying or offering COLAs. So, jtrain calling him a hypocrite seems to be over the top. Velo's simply stating some facts.

[Captain_Bob]

Originally Posted by 777forever

Well, XJET did lower their price to secure the 2 year Delta flying. I wonder how profitable that is for them...

Don't confuse the negotiation of flying outside of a CPA as "lowered prices".

Originally Posted by yardman

As one sits back and look at ExpressJet...........is it at all possible that the same scenario can rare its ugly head at other "decent" regionals?s this sign of the times.......is the cycle finally moving in-line with the economy? Food for thought.

Mesaba is currently offering COLA's from what I understand.

[OldTownPilot]

Street Captains to COLAs in a month.....jeez


Feast or famine.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

Hardly. I don't see anywhere that Velo stated he was happy at ExpressJet losing some flying or offering COLAs. So, jtrain calling him a hypocrite seems to be over the top. Velo's simply stating some facts.

Velo is stating no facts.

As you two commonly say, you're not here, and you don't know what's happening. Everybody automatically attributes out problems to branded, but that simply isn't the case. If you were on the inside, and you saw what was happening, you know it's Continental and our BS CPA with them that's strangling this company more than anything else.

Branded is not the problem, CAL is the problem. I think our pilot group understands that, but you don't see that from the outside. All you see is FlyI references and "YOU CAN'T MAKE MONEY WITH 50 SEATERS!" being strewn across the intarweb.

If we can't make money, then why are we? A reduction in flying from CAL doesn't mean we're not making money, it means CAL reduced the amount of staffing we need.

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Velo is stating no facts.

As you two commonly say, you're not here, and you don't know what's happening. Everybody automatically attributes out problems to branded, but that simply isn't the case. If you were on the inside, and you saw what was happening, you know it's Continental and our BS CPA with them that's strangling this company more than anything else.

Branded is not the problem, CAL is the problem. I think our pilot group understands that, but you don't see that from the outside. All you see is FlyI references and "YOU CAN'T MAKE MONEY WITH 50 SEATERS!" being strewn across the intarweb.

If we can't make money, then why are we? A reduction in flying from CAL doesn't mean we're not making money, it means CAL reduced the amount of staffing we need.

Calm down, jtrain. I'm not criticizing your branded flying. I've always been a supporter. But in reference to the post you quoted of Velo's, he gave nothing but facts. He made two statements in his post:

1. ExpressJet lost nearly 20% of the their CAL flying
2. If enough people don't take COLAs, then furloughs will result

Those are both straight facts. What's the problem here?

[t-cart]

Good luck to all you guys.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

Calm down, jtrain. I'm not criticizing your branded flying. I've always been a supporter. But in reference to the post you quoted of Velo's, he gave nothing but facts. He made two statements in his post:

1. ExpressJet lost nearly 20% of the their CAL flying
2. If enough people don't take COLAs, then furloughs will result

Those are both straight facts. What's the problem here?

You're missing something here.

He recommended I stop drinking the kool aid and that any time you lose 20% of your flying you're hosed. He didn't simply say, "You lost 20% of your flying," he said you're hosed when you do. We're proving otherwise with good luck.

And yes I'm well aware that if enough people don't take the furloughs we're furloughing. I'm on the chopping block as we speak, actually, as I only have 168 people below me

[FlyChicaga]

The problem is not our Branded flying, or our Charter flying. In fact, Branded and Charter have been doing very well. We are pulling some routes on the East coast for Branded that have been unprofitable, and bulking up some of the West coast flying. Also, the Delta flying has been going very well for us. We did not offer our services for less to get the Delta contract. 11 of the 21 aircraft in that deal are operated under a "pro-rate" agreement, which means that we share the burden in marketing and ticket sales.

As for the staffing issues, the problem is that the Crew Planning Department has to make educated guesses each month on how many block hours we'll receive from Delta and Continental, as well as a wild guess on how many pilots we'll lose to attrition. In 2007, we were losing a ton of pilots to the majors, since all the majors were hiring. Now, the majors have slowed or stopped hiring altogether due to the Age 65 rule and the current economy. That means very little attrition. In addition to the attrition problems, Continental keeps reducing our block hours. Not because they are transferring to Chautauqua, but simply because Continental is trying to reduce costs due to fuel prices just like we are. Less block hours means the need for less pilots.

This problem was foreseen while our last batch of new-hire FOs was still in training. Rather than let all those pilots go (they would not be furloughed, since they had not technically become employees), the company finished their training and brought them online. So we are "properly staffed" for Captains, but not so for First Officers. At this juncture, rather than dump 50-100 FOs with a furlough, the company is offering COLAs instead.

So yes, I am drinking the Kool-Aid here... When I had questions about this stuff, I simply asked the right people. I even e-mailed the CEO asking about our future plans, and he responded. That to me shows I work for a good company, so I'll back their decisions. They could have fired all those FOs in training, but they did not want to do that. Now, they could force them to go find new jobs, lose pass privledges, lose medical benefits, and so forth, but instead they'll offer a COLA until we can "right size" the company for the flying that is expected over the next few months. By the end of the summer/early fall, I'd even expect to see a new-hire class or two.

A weakening economy, the Age 65 rule, high fuel prices... We are all in for a very long year. Anyone who thinks they are immune better step back into reality. What happens when we enter turbulence? We put on the shoulder harnesses, tighten our belts, settle in and hang on. That's what we're all going to have to do here for the next few years.

I'll be damned if I'll take a pay cut so we can get another major airline contract. I'm just happy we extended our current contract until 2010... The last thing we'd want is to negotiate in this environment.

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

He didn't simply say, "You lost 20% of your flying," he said you're hosed when you do.

I went back and read both of his posts in this thread, and I couldn't find anywhere where he said that "you're hosed." He said that losing almost 20% of your flying was a "big hit," and I think that's indisputable. I doubt your management would disagree. You may have a backup plan, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a big hit to your existing business.

What's with the Velo hatred? I just don't get it.

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

The problem is not our Branded flying, or our Charter flying. In fact, Branded and Charter have been doing very well. We are pulling some routes on the East coast for Branded that have been unprofitable, and bulking up some of the West coast flying. Also, the Delta flying has been going very well for us. We did not offer our services for less to get the Delta contract. 11 of the 21 aircraft in that deal are operated under a "pro-rate" agreement, which means that we share the burden in marketing and ticket sales.

As for the staffing issues, the problem is that the Crew Planning Department has to make educated guesses each month on how many block hours we'll receive from Delta and Continental, as well as a wild guess on how many pilots we'll lose to attrition. In 2007, we were losing a ton of pilots to the majors, since all the majors were hiring. Now, the majors have slowed or stopped hiring altogether due to the Age 65 rule and the current economy. That means very little attrition. In addition to the attrition problems, Continental keeps reducing our block hours. Not because they are transferring to Chautauqua, but simply because Continental is trying to reduce costs due to fuel prices just like we are. Less block hours means the need for less pilots.

This problem was foreseen while our last batch of new-hire FOs was still in training. Rather than let all those pilots go (they would not be furloughed, since they had not technically become employees), the company finished their training and brought them online. So we are "properly staffed" for Captains, but not so for First Officers. At this juncture, rather than dump 50-100 FOs with a furlough, the company is offering COLAs instead.

So yes, I am drinking the Kool-Aid here... When I had questions about this stuff, I simply asked the right people. I even e-mailed the CEO asking about our future plans, and he responded. That to me shows I work for a good company, so I'll back their decisions. They could have fired all those FOs in training, but they did not want to do that. Now, they could force them to go find new jobs, lose pass privledges, lose medical benefits, and so forth, but instead they'll offer a COLA until we can "right size" the company for the flying that is expected over the next few months. By the end of the summer/early fall, I'd even expect to see a new-hire class or two.

A weakening economy, the Age 65 rule, high fuel prices... We are all in for a very long year. Anyone who thinks they are immune better step back into reality. What happens when we enter turbulence? We put on the shoulder harnesses, tighten our belts, settle in and hang on. That's what we're all going to have to do here for the next few years.

I'll be damned if I'll take a pay cut so we can get another major airline contract. I'm just happy we extended our current contract until 2010... The last thing we'd want is to negotiate in this environment.

Thanks for the additional info.

One thing I picked up as an intern and since I've been an FO is that the management at the top really seems to care.

They could have dumped 69 airplanes worth of crews a year ago. They could have dumped the new hires 6 moths ago. There's probably even more things they could have done but they didn't. It gives me some confidence that they really are working as hard as they can to keep the company moving in the right direction without taking the easy 'get rid of pilots' route.

In any case as close to the bottom as I am there is nothing I can do. And as a low-time (former intern) FO I can't jump ship. At least getting the impression that management is making decisions with me in mind is some comfort (or maybe they're hoping to see the stock price jump a few bucks so they can cash out and retire...either way all I can do is show up to work )