X-Country not for a rating

Pietrantonio · March 6th, 2008, 09:32

Just need varification, but I'm looking at the def of Cross-Country 61.1 and it states: That includes a point of landing other than departure, and involved the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, etc...

Is this the correct cross country def I'm looking for that involves cross country time not for a rating? I know it doesn't state anything about NM, so I'm guessing a flight 5NM to another airport would satisfy this req?

Thanks all. Just need a clarification before I start updating my logbook with x-country time not for a rating.

Berkut · March 6th, 2008, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pietrantonio

Is this the correct cross country def I'm looking for that involves cross country time not for a rating? I know it doesn't state anything about NM, so I'm guessing a flight 5NM to another airport would satisfy this req?

Yes.

Ian J · March 6th, 2008, 09:42

A common technique is to start another column in your logbook for this time.

Pietrantonio · March 6th, 2008, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian J

A common technique is to start another column in your logbook for this time.

Awesome thanks guys! Yeah I started a new column, but before I started adding any numbers, I just wanted to verify that this was the correct def so I wasn't falsifying any flight time.

Thanks!

Pietrantonio · March 6th, 2008, 10:00

One more thing. Can you log both as XC for a rating and not a rating if the flight was more than 50NM? I have a few flights where my XC were > 50NM to build time for the IR req, but could that also be logged as time not for a rating as well because it was to another airport with a landing?

Also, I have time in a R22 where I made landings at another airport. I'm going to assume that I can't log that as XC not for a rating because I'm only rated in airplanes?

MidlifeFlyer · March 6th, 2008, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkut

Yes. It counts for the ATP cross country requirement as well.

No it doesn't. Look again.

MidlifeFlyer · March 6th, 2008, 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pietrantonio

Just need varification, but I'm looking at the def of Cross-Country 61.1 and it states: That includes a point of landing other than departure, and involved the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, etc...

Is this the correct cross country def I'm looking for that involves cross country time not for a rating? I know it doesn't state anything about NM, so I'm guessing a flight 5NM to another airport would satisfy this req?

Thanks all. Just need a clarification before I start updating my logbook with x-country time not for a rating.

Yep it does. The multiple conditions for the use of cross country time depending on what you are counting it for is a bookkeeping issue. Whatever method you use, it should make it easy for you to separate one from the other.

mooneyguy · March 6th, 2008, 10:23

You are correct. If it’s not for a cert. or rating a cross country could be from small Ville to Podunk 5 miles away. However, Keep in mind, if you ever want to acquire your IR, or commercial cert the x-c must have a landing 50nm from your point of departure! I'm sure any future employer would have the same requirement if they have a X-C requirement!
Make a note of this too, The ATP cross country requires 50NM as well, but there is no requirement to land 50nm away, only that a landing be made at a point other then your point of departure!

Berkut · March 6th, 2008, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

No it doesn't. Look again.

You're right, I was thinking of fulfilling the part 135 cross country requirement.

beechpilot · March 6th, 2008, 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian J

A common technique is to start another column in your logbook for this time.

This is what I did. While this time doesn't count toward another certificate or rating it will count towards part 135 mins.

Pietrantonio · March 6th, 2008, 11:59

For my IR rating, I'm flying the 50NM or > to satisfy the XC req for a rating. A question I'm concerned about, is a scenario like this:

TT: 2.7
KJQF - KCRE
Distance One way (125NM)

Now, I can use that as a XC for the IR, but can I also add the TT of the trip to my XC not for a rating category as well, since it is a landing at another airport other than the departure airport? I think midlifeflyr might have answered this, but I wasn't sure if it was for this question, or what he quoted from me.

MikeOH58 · March 6th, 2008, 12:11

Am I the only one who thinks it sounds a little cheap to use CC flights not done for a rating towards 135 mins? The FAR's say it is completely legal to log a 5NM flight as a CC, but when happens when you go to interview and the company realizes half of your CC time is less than 50NM flights and rejects it, just like some 121 operators reject certain types of PIC time?

Personally, I have never bothered to make a new column for less than 50NM cross country's...I just don't see the point. I can't apply them to the ATP, and by the time I have my ATP i'll be ready to move to either 121 or 135, making the point moot.

mooneyguy · March 6th, 2008, 12:11

YES. For me ANYTHING over 50 NM goes into my X-C time column. I would just be sure to watch anything below the 50NM leg and just be sure that it is not mixed into rating/cert requirments.

mooneyguy · March 6th, 2008, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeOH58

Am I the only one who thinks it sounds a little cheap to use CC flights not done for a rating towards 135 mins? The FAR's say it is completely legal to log a 5NM flight as a CC, but when happens when you go to interview and the company realizes half of your CC time is less than 50NM flights and rejects it, just like some 121 operators reject certain types of PIC time?

Personally, I have never bothered to make a new column for less than 50NM cross country's...I just don't see the point. I can't apply them to the ATP, and by the time I have my ATP i'll be ready to move to either 121 or 135, making the point moot.

Berkut · March 6th, 2008, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeOH58

what happens when you go to interview and the company realizes half of your CC time is less than 50NM flights and rejects it

What happens when you go to an interview and the company realizes that the majority of your CC time is less than 250NM flights and rejects it? What happens when the interviewer thinks that 172 time is crap and rejects it?

Companies are free to set their own arbitrary minimums, but the feds set the 135 minimums and they are fine with CC's of less than 50NM.

Pietrantonio · March 6th, 2008, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooneyguy

YES. For me ANYTHING over 50 NM goes into my X-C time column. I would just be sure to watch anything below the 50NM leg and just be sure that it is not mixed into rating/cert requirments.

Of course. I have a few flights which would be for example:
Distance 1 : 17NM
Distance 2 : 80NM
Distance 3 : 80NM
Distance 4 : 17NM

TT: 2.0

BUT...I would add 1.7 in the XC for a rating column. The 34 miles that do not constitue as a XC for a rating are omitted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeOH58

Am I the only one who thinks it sounds a little cheap to use CC flights not done for a rating towards 135 mins? The FAR's say it is completely legal to log a 5NM flight as a CC, but when happens when you go to interview and the company realizes half of your CC time is less than 50NM flights and rejects it, just like some 121 operators reject certain types of PIC time?

Personally, I have never bothered to make a new column for less than 50NM cross country's...I just don't see the point. I can't apply them to the ATP, and by the time I have my ATP i'll be ready to move to either 121 or 135, making the point moot.

I see what you are saying. I also don't plan on building all my xc time with 5nm trips either. I am just adding this column because it's a nice way to really break it down into it's catagories. Just my opinion. I know everyone has their ways, but I see where you're coming from.

mtsu_av8er · March 6th, 2008, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeOH58

Am I the only one who thinks it sounds a little cheap to use CC flights not done for a rating towards 135 mins?

One of the few!

MidlifeFlyer · March 6th, 2008, 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeOH58

Am I the only one who thinks it sounds a little cheap to use CC flights not done for a rating towards 135 mins? .

I don't know.

Scenario:

You are a CFI and a small FBO in western Connecticut that happens to have a contract to do cargo runs in their Cherokee. Small stuff. The pilot who usually does these has been offered a job somewhere else. The FBO owners know you and trust you, so they ask whether you want the job. Of course you do! It's small, but heck, it's a "real" pilot position.

So you go through your logbook and, sure enough, if you counted all those flights with your students to the towered airport 12 NM away, you clear the 135 cross country minimums. But without it, you come up short.

So you turn to your prospective employer and say,

"Sorry, but I can't take the job. It would be a little cheap."

Douglas · March 7th, 2008, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pietrantonio

Of course. I have a few flights which would be for example:
Distance 1 : 17NM
Distance 2 : 80NM
Distance 3 : 80NM
Distance 4 : 17NM

TT: 2.0

BUT...I would add 1.7 in the XC for a rating column. The 34 miles that do not constitue as a XC for a rating are omitted.

are you talking about legs of one trip? if one leg of the whole trip is more than 50 nm long, you count the whole thing in your over 50nm column.

mooneyguy · March 7th, 2008, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

I don't know.

Scenario:

You are a CFI and a small FBO in western Connecticut that happens to have a contract to do cargo runs in their Cherokee. Small stuff. The pilot who usually does these has been offered a job somewhere else. The FBO owners know you and trust you, so they ask whether you want the job. Of course you do! It's small, but heck, it's a "real" pilot position.

So you go through your logbook and, sure enough, if you counted all those flights with your students to the towered airport 12 NM away, you clear the 135 cross country minimums. But without it, you come up short.

So you turn to your prospective employer and say,

"Sorry, but I can't take the job. It would be a little cheap."

Well, of course we would all be scraping up every last hour we can get...right!

I guess what I was thinking when I had agreed with mikeoh is that it is now my goal to make each flight 50nm (if possible), knowing that I intend on getting the ATP in the future. However it all adds-up and is usuable one way or the other!
The cfi doing hops to near by airports is a great example!

Pietrantonio · March 7th, 2008, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas

are you talking about legs of one trip? if one leg of the whole trip is more than 50 nm long, you count the whole thing in your over 50nm column.

I'll try to explain it better. I might have not explained it right.

Point A-B 17NM (with a landing)
Point B-C 80NM (with a landing)
Point C-B 80NM (with a landing)
Point B-A 17NM (with a landing)

BajtheJino · March 7th, 2008, 15:36

No, the whole flight would be logged as cross country.

MidlifeFlyer · March 7th, 2008, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by BajtheJino

No, the whole flight would be logged as cross country.

That's right. The >50 NM requirement to count it for most certificates and ratings is based on the =flight= having at least one point of landing that is >50 NM from where you started it. It does not require >50 NM =legs=. In the example, so long as C is more than 50 NM from A, the whole round robin counts as a cross country.

Pietrantonio · March 7th, 2008, 22:31

Sweet! I'll have to update the logbook. Thanks everyone!