ATC Error to Near Miss w/Delta & PSA

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Glad it all worked out.

Near miss blamed on air traffic control trainee


Associated Press
March 6, 2008 at 5:49 AM EST

OBERLIN, OHIO — Two airplanes carrying more than 120 passengers narrowly averted a mid-air collision east of Pittsburgh after an air traffic control trainee told a Delta Air Lines pilot to turn into the path of an oncoming plane, officials said.
The Delta pilot made a nosedive and missed the plane by about 120 metres, the Federal Aviation Administration said. The other pilot also took evasive action, the FAA said.
A cockpit collision avoidance system alerted the pilots to the danger.
Delta Flight 1654 was en route from Cincinnati to LaGuardia International Airport in New York Tuesday morning and was carrying 57 passengers.
The other plane, PSA Flight 2273, was flying from Wilkes-Barre, Pa., to Charlotte, N.C. It had 70 people on board.
The controller only had about a year on the job, said Melissa Ott, National Air Traffic Controllers spokeswoman at the Cleveland Air Route Traffic Control Center in Oberlin.
“We watched the recording of the incident three times and each time I said, ‘Oh my God,'” Ms. Ott said. “It was the closest call I have ever seen in my 18 years of air traffic control.”
FAA spokeswoman Elizabeth Isham Cory called the incident an operational error. She said a second controller was working with the trainee at the time.
“This ended with the aircraft taking the appropriate action,” Ms. Cory said. “The controllers will be retrained.”
A Delta spokeswoman said the passengers “were never in danger.”

[firebirdswm]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

“We watched the recording of the incident three times and each time I said, ‘Oh my God,'” Ms. Ott said. “It was the closest call I have ever seen in my 18 years of air traffic control.”

Is that really the kind of thing the spokeswoman should be saying? I thought their job was to downplay everything.

[flyguy969]

I love the last line "passengers were never in danger" Yeah I wonder if they feel that way!

[PGT]

Originally Posted by firebirdswm

Is that really the kind of thing the spokeswoman should be saying? I thought their job was to downplay everything.

no the FAA probably cut her salary as well so she's not a happy camper either

[canadian_atc]

Almost 700 feet separation, considering aircraft can cross with 800 feet separation and be legal (+/- 200 foot altitude reporting error) hardly the closest call we've ever heard of, still scary nonetheless.

Two commerical airliners will collide again, it's only a matter of time unfortunately. Thankfully technology and training advances should continue to extend that timeline.

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Originally Posted by canadian_atc

Almost 700 feet separation, considering aircraft can cross with 800 feet separation and be legal (+/- 200 foot altitude reporting error) hardly the closest call we've ever heard of, still scary nonetheless.

700 feet vertically (with zero lateral separation) isn't that bad. 700 feet horizontally (with zero altitude separation) is pretty bad. Then again, if the 700 feet vertical separation was rapidly decreasing until the TCAS issued the RA, thats pretty bad too. Based on the fact that the article says "an air traffic control trainee told a Delta Air Lines pilot to turn into the path of an oncoming plane", my take on it is that it was a loss of lateral separation, not vertical.

[jtrain609]

Every time I go into Cleveland, it becomes more obvious to me that it's a training facility.

"Jetlink 2032 turn right heading 185."

"Heading 185 Jetlink 2032."

*2 seconds later*

"Jetlink 2032 turn right heading 190."

"190 Jetlink 2032."

*2 seconds later*

"Jetlink 2032 turn left heading 170."

"170 Jetlink 2032."

*2 seconds later*

"Jetlink 2032 contact Cleveland center on 132.55"

"See ya"

I mean seriously, WTF is with that place!?

[Schinpop]

When did the FAA start talking in meters?

[Cav]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Every time I go into Cleveland, it becomes more obvious to me that it's a training facility.

"Jetlink 2032 turn right heading 185."

"Heading 185 Jetlink 2032."

*2 seconds later*

"Jetlink 2032 turn right heading 190."

"190 Jetlink 2032."

*2 seconds later*

"Jetlink 2032 turn left heading 170."

"170 Jetlink 2032."

*2 seconds later*

"Jetlink 2032 contact Cleveland center on 132.55"

"See ya"

I mean seriously, WTF is with that place!?

You forgot a couple things...

"Jetlink 2032, slow to 170 KIAS"

followed shortly thereafter by an expedited descent from 7000 to 3000 in icing.

Oh and a runway change 3 miles outside the marker.

and followed shortly by me saying, "unable."

[JDMcFly]

Where did you guys get 700 feet from?

120m ~= 400ft

?

[bike21]

The thing that caught my eye was that the PSA flight had more people on it than the DL mainline flight

[GaTechKid]

Thank god for TCAS.

[FiveO]

Originally Posted by GaTechKid

Thank god for TCAS.

Yes, but why did they wait so long to take "appropriate action"?

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Cav

You forgot a couple things...

"Jetlink 2032, slow to 170 KIAS"

And then fly two downwinds!

[EDUC8-or]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Every time I go into Cleveland, it becomes more obvious to me that it's a training facility.

"Jetlink 2032 turn right heading 185."

"Heading 185 Jetlink 2032."

*2 seconds later*

"Jetlink 2032 turn right heading 190."

"190 Jetlink 2032."

*2 seconds later*

"Jetlink 2032 turn left heading 170."

"170 Jetlink 2032."

*2 seconds later*

"Jetlink 2032 contact Cleveland center on 132.55"

"See ya"

I mean seriously, WTF is with that place!?

I'll piggyback with a different callsign...

Bluestreak 1234, you are now departing Class Bravo airspace. (this is on a downwind) Uhh, okay. Great vectoring CLE ATC.

[kellwolf]

Amazingly, I didn't get a news story on me. Had this same thing happen to me yesterday. Got an RA on a Lear at 28,000 ft thanks to ATC clearing him to the wrong altitude (ours). I guess since we weren't near a major metropolitan area, though, it wasn't newsworthy.....

[frog_flyer]

Anyone find it funny that mainline DAL had 50 pax when PSA had 70?

[bike21]

Originally Posted by bike21

The thing that caught my eye was that the PSA flight had more people on it than the DL mainline flight

Originally Posted by frog_flyer

Anyone find it funny that mainline DAL had 50 pax when PSA had 70?