Log book lies - Page 3

granlistillo · March 5th, 2008, 21:18

It is called "P51ing" (I think after the pen not so much the airplane). You have any incident and the FAA will hammer you. The fool that killed Aaliyah (pop singer)and entourage p51 his logbook and the FAA caught it, unfortunately for all involved he killed everyone on the plane. You gotta live with yourself, as someone else pointed out.

jtrain609 · March 5th, 2008, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtpilot

Realizing that you're just playing devil's advocate, the problem in my view isn't with the relatively slim chance of becoming 'this guy' who got his certificates revoked, the problem is with the 100% chance becoming 'that guy' who doesn't have the moral fortitude to do the right thing! Just because it is unlikely you'll get caught, doesn't mean it should be done.

Soooooo......NJC?

I'm not playing devil's advocate at all. Let me say it again for you.

You will not get caught.

I'm not saying you should do it, I'm saying you won't get caught.

Trust me. I've never padded my logbook but know plenty of folks who have.

ppragman · March 6th, 2008, 01:06

there are plenty of people who have done it, I heard a guy from south africa who says that its a big problem there that you can only "cheat on 10%" anything over ten percent and its obvious. still unadvisable.

BajtheJino · March 6th, 2008, 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

I'm not playing devil's advocate at all. Let me say it again for you.

You will not get caught.

I'm not saying you should do it, I'm saying you won't get caught.

Trust me. I've never padded my logbook but know plenty of folks who have.

I know a couple of people that have done it, too. How would anyone know the difference?
One guy in particular padded a couple of hundred hours after he graduated Riddle because he told me "...who would suspect me?". A duchass to an RJ and guess what, even if he had flown those hours what good would it have done him in that jet?
Tsk, Tsk, Tsk.

Tram · March 6th, 2008, 03:14

I say:

ljg · March 6th, 2008, 05:26

There was a guy at my flight school who falsified his 141 records and swore up and down to his instructor that his solo time was legitimate. The Cheif Flight Instructor pulled his records, pulled his invoices, and confronted him on a night solo singed complete that matched an invoice marked 4:15pm. He lied at first, and then admitted. I'm embarrassed with the outcome.

A slap on the wrist, no FAA, no academic board hearings, redid the lesson, finished the program, graduated, PFT'd, Mesa.

MidlifeFlyer · March 6th, 2008, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

I'm not playing devil's advocate at all. Let me say it again for you.

You will not get caught.

I'm not saying you should do it, I'm saying you won't get caught.

Trust me. I've never padded my logbook but know plenty of folks who have.

Here's the story of one guy who "will not get caught"

http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/AVIATION/5039.PDF

(BTW, it's also the case that deals with the "it didn't really count" argument)

jtrain609 · March 6th, 2008, 10:20

I'm not going to deny that case, midlife, but I'll bet you I can name at least 10 guys off the top of my head for that 1 that didn't get caught.

Minnesota_Flyer · March 6th, 2008, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

I'm not going to deny that case, midlife, but I'll bet you I can name at least 10 guys off the top of my head for that 1 that didn't get caught.

I'd guess it's a little like cheating on your taxes. You're probably not going to get caught, but if you do (and it does happen, perhaps rarely), the gubmint will make an example out of you.

I find it interesting that so many people who do pad their time apparently feel comfortable enough about it to tell others. Things that make you go, "hmmmm . . . ".

jtrain609 · March 6th, 2008, 10:34

Most of them are not, actually.

I've never padded my logbook (if I was going to do it, you'd be seeing me sitting in the left seat of a Metroliner right now instead of sitting in the right seat of an RJ), but I've got buddies who have. It's not like we were sitting around talking about girls one day and they yelled out, "Yeah I'm a real man, I padded my logbook!" But if you talk with enough guys long enough, it comes out. Different guys do different things; some guys need a few extra hours of multi time to get an interview, some guys need another 20 hours of night to make 135 mins, etc. etc.

And NJA_Capt is right, you can tell who REALLY has 2,000 hours and who SAYS they have 2,000 hours when they are goign through a 135 training program. That's the real litnus right there.

Tram · March 6th, 2008, 11:18

Wow.. that poor sap got drilled for making up less than 200 hours worth of time... Buuummmerr..

But.. You plays the game.. you takes your chances...

MikeOH58 · March 6th, 2008, 11:45

Heres the real question for all of the morally correct guys.....As soon as the hobbs or tach begins to show the next #, regardless how much of the # is showing, you are getting billed for that time. So do you take the moral high road and pay for 1.6 and only log 1.5, or do you do some padding and add 5 or 6 minutes to your time.

ryanmickG · March 6th, 2008, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Again, you'll never get caught. Everybody's got these horror stories about how they know "this guy" who got his certificates ripped away from him, but there are A TON of people who have logged some BIC time and never had any problems with it.

Ask me about at NJC.

Johns right.

I've know dozens of pilots that pencil whipped hours before a interview.
Not sayings its right, but getting caught is unlikley.

Tram · March 6th, 2008, 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeOH58

So do you take the moral high road and pay for 1.6 and only log 1.5, or do you do some padding and add 5 or 6 minutes to your time.

That's like saying if you flew 12 minutes, you should log .1 instead of .2?

If the hobbs clicks over to 1.6, I'd log 1.6..

While we are speaking hobbs/tach, here's a question..

If you fly a plane equipped with a hobbs and you get in at 5.0 on the hobbs.. You get out at 6.5 on the hobbs.. Do you log 1.5?

Stone Cold · March 6th, 2008, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tram

That's like saying if you flew 12 minutes, you should log .1 instead of .2?

If the hobbs clicks over to 1.6, I'd log 1.6..

While we are speaking hobbs/tach, here's a question..

If you fly a plane equipped with a hobbs and you get in at 5.0 on the hobbs.. You get out at 6.5 on the hobbs.. Do you log 1.5?

Absolutely...first thing you do is a brake check, right? I mean, you wouldn't want to be running your after starting and before taxi checklist and have the brakes fail, right? Brakes released, and you're moving for the purpose of flight...

Stinger · March 6th, 2008, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tram

While we are speaking hobbs/tach, here's a question..

If you fly a plane equipped with a hobbs and you get in at 5.0 on the hobbs.. You get out at 6.5 on the hobbs.. Do you log 1.5?

I'm thinking that you might be able to log 1.6 for a case like this. You could log the 5.0 tenth all the way up to the 6.5 tenth, which would make 16 tenths of an hour. It's just a personal interpretation, but I think that you could do it.

Stone Cold · March 6th, 2008, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinger

I'm thinking that you might be able to log 1.6 for a case like this. You could log the 5.0 tenth all the way up to the 6.5 tenth, which would make 16 tenths of an hour. It's just a personal interpretation, but I think that you could do it.

That must be that new math I always heard of...

subpilot · March 6th, 2008, 13:35

As the old saying goes: "You fly what you can and log what you need."

My ground school instructor told us that "joke" at AE.

Stinger · March 6th, 2008, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stone Cold

That must be that new math I always heard of...

HAHA, yeah

. You get all these people who want the fastest way to the regionals and I'm just giving them some new tricks to speed up the process.

It'll also give everybody something new to discuss.

typhoonpilot · March 6th, 2008, 13:55

This thread is unbelievable!! It seems like there is tacit approval of padding a logbook from many of the members of this forum.

It's no wonder America is becoming a second rate country. The moral and ethical makeup of it's citizens is in decline.

If you ever pad your logbook make sure not to ever call yourself a professional pilot. A pretender maybe, but certainly not professional.

Typhoonpilot

Bumblebee · March 6th, 2008, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tram

That's like saying if you flew 12 minutes, you should log .1 instead of .2?

If the hobbs clicks over to 1.6, I'd log 1.6..

While we are speaking hobbs/tach, here's a question..

If you fly a plane equipped with a hobbs and you get in at 5.0 on the hobbs.. You get out at 6.5 on the hobbs.. Do you log 1.5?

yes

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeOH58

Heres the real question for all of the morally correct guys.....As soon as the hobbs or tach begins to show the next #, regardless how much of the # is showing, you are getting billed for that time. So do you take the moral high road and pay for 1.6 and only log 1.5, or do you do some padding and add 5 or 6 minutes to your time.

You log what you pay for . . . that's reasonable and it will average into what is accurate as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinger

I'm thinking that you might be able to log 1.6 for a case like this. You could log the 5.0 tenth all the way up to the 6.5 tenth, which would make 16 tenths of an hour. It's just a personal interpretation, but I think that you could do it.

and you could call a pig a bunny . . . but it's still a pig

Tram · March 6th, 2008, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by bumblebee

yes

So, if you log the 1.5 for the hobbs..

What do you log if you fly for 1.5 hours on an aircraft only equipped with a tach?

Stone Cold · March 6th, 2008, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tram

So, if you log the 1.5 for the hobbs..

What do you log if you fly for 1.5 hours on an aircraft only equipped with a tach?

The usual method we used at all 3 flight schools I worked at was 1.2 times Tach was a fairly good guess. You could also run a stopwatch, but the mx and billing were run off of 1.2 X tach. Yes, it varies on what you were doing, but it usually rounds out in the end.

Tram · March 6th, 2008, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stone Cold

The usual method we used at all 3 flight schools I worked at was 1.2 times Tach was a fairly good guess. You could also run a stopwatch, but the mx and billing were run off of 1.2 X tach. Yes, it varies on what you were doing, but it usually rounds out in the end.

Yeh, that's about what I've always used.. Our 6 doesn't have a hobbs..

KC Jake · March 6th, 2008, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by typhoonpilot

This thread is unbelievable!! It seems like there is tacit approval of padding a logbook from many of the members of this forum.

It's no wonder America is becoming a second rate country. The moral and ethical makeup of it's citizens is in decline.

If you ever pad your logbook make sure not to ever call yourself a professional pilot. A pretender maybe, but certainly not professional.

Typhoonpilot

I don't think that most people here are displaying any approval for logging bic time. In fact, most of the posts say that you should not do it. Some are saying that you won't get caught, that is different than approval.