B727 ?'S

[Bandit_Driver]

Well after flying the B727 for a couple years now I haven't been able to find a good anwer and hoping someone on here might shed some more light. I know the -2 means they are a 200 series aircraft and F is freighter but I haven't been able to figure out the rest of the code.

727-2B6F JT8D-15 engines
727-2H3F JT8D-9A engines
727-225F JT8D-9A engines

[ERfly]

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

Well after flying the B727 for a couple years now I haven't been able to find a good anwer and hoping someone on here might shed some more light. I know the -2 means they are a 200 series aircraft and F is freighter but I haven't been able to figure out the rest of the code.

727-2B6F JT8D-15 engines
727-2H3F JT8D-9A engines
727-225F JT8D-9A engines

The last 2 numbers (letters) are the airline designation from Boeing. Each airline (customer) is given a code to designate them. Being a second hand fleet, as I assume your airline is, you'll have a mix of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...customer_codes

Wikipedia is the best thing ever!

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

Well after flying the B727 for a couple years now I haven't been able to find a good anwer and hoping someone on here might shed some more light. I know the -2 means they are a 200 series aircraft and F is freighter but I haven't been able to figure out the rest of the code.

727-2B6F JT8D-15 engines
727-2H3F JT8D-9A engines
727-225F JT8D-9A engines

What bus does a 727 F/O ride to work on? (The non-essential bus.)

BTW, check essential!!

[Bandit_Driver]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

What bus does a 727 F/O ride to work on? (The non-essential bus.)

BTW, check essential!!

I love that - LMAO

Essential, Operating Generator.

Do you remember the memory aid fot the 5 generator faults?

E
P
S
V
D

Thanks ERFLY

[bustinminimums]

one of the 727's you fly is an ex -eastern airplane since thier designator code from boeing is 25 and you mentioning it having -9 engines probably means it is a non advanced 200 model. If I remember right the 2B6 ship might be an old Royal Air Maroc bird and I am guessing she is an advanced model since she has the dash 15 engines even though some of the advanced 200 models have the -17 engines on them.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

I love that - LMAO

Essential, Operating Generator.

Do you remember the memory aid fot the 5 generator faults?

E
P
S
V
D

Thanks ERFLY

Hmm....excitation fault, phase unbalance, speed fault, over/under voltage, and phase differential.

Every Pilot Has VD.


How about Break In Up Stairs Every Afternoon!

[Bandit_Driver]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

Hmm....excitation fault, phase unbalance, speed fault, over/under voltage, and phase differential.

Every Pilot Has VD.


How about Break In Up Stairs Every Afternoon!

Yup, and don't forget about NEAT GOLF for System A.

Still wish Boeing has put Hydraulics on Eng 3. Got love manual reversion, single enginge NDB's during training. They are my favorite

I have so much fun going into ORD when they say "max forward airspeed followed by please slow to 320"

Who did you fly the 727 for?

[Pépé le Pilot]

How is it to fly the 72's ? This is actually one of my all time favorite aircraft, along with the DC-10.... Sigh...

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

Yup, and don't forget about NEAT GOLF for System A.

Still wish Boeing has put Hydraulics on Eng 3. Got love manual reversion, single enginge NDB's during training. They are my favorite

I have so much fun going into ORD when they say "max forward airspeed followed by please slow to 320"

Who did you fly the 727 for?

TWA and Delta. I think the 727 was the last of the "when men were men" airplanes. These automated jets now are nice...but definitely are making sissies out of us!!

In the 767 I don't even know what the volts and freqs are...it just tells me if they are bad. Checking volts and freqs used to be a big deal.

[MQAAord]

Aw, you were TWA too?

Bill says he learned more about how airplane systems work from being on the 72 panel at TWA and DL than from any other flying experience he's had.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

Aw, you were TWA too?

Bill says he learned more about how airplane systems work from being on the 72 panel at TWA and DL than from any other flying experience he's had.

I have a master's degree level of education and some of the best teachers I've ever had were the professional instructors at TWA that had been teaching ground schools in their training department for 30+ years. Delta seemed to have more retired military guys that never had any practical experience in the airplane. Simulator instructors were all active pilots that were pretty good.

TWA training was pretty hard core.

[Bandit_Driver]

Pepe, as B767 said, the 72 it is a real pilots airplane and it is a must to have good system knowledge. You can seriously screw yourself in the 727 if you are not careful with the electrics. You have to taste everything before using it to make sure it is within limits. In some cases you have to manually parallel the generators. Not to mention if you lose an engine, the FE has to download quickly since there is no automatic load shedding and you can toast the other gens end up with the essential on standby, which has to be manually selected on most 72's. The APU was an after thought and located in the main gear wheel wells so it can't be started in flight. The FE has probably the hardest job in the plane as he pretty much has to monitor and control nearly everything.

Physically flying the plane is great. It is quite stable, responsive, and fast (M90 or 372KIAS) although we don't get to use that speed too much due to the high fuel prices. Boeing really thought of the pilots too when making the plane giving it fighter like handling. If you put the speeds brakes 1/2 out you double your roll rate. It's fun to see a new FO put the brakes out and not be thinking about the roll rate and try and make a turn. I do miss some of the toys the new planes have but feel fortunate to have flown a piece of aviation history. I have never flown an Airbus but I am serioiusly impressed with Boeing right now on how well the plane it built.

It does take some getting used to routinely see the red lights going by before getting airborne when doing MTOW takeoffs at nearly 196K lbs.


B767 How does the 76 fly? Is it as solid as the 72?

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

B767 How does the 76 fly? Is it as solid as the 72?

It is very responsive and light on the controls like the 72...of course they both have 2 sets of ailerons that provide for that touch. It is easier to land, and seems to have much more excess climb power for better performance off the runway. In the 727, if you could point the nose at a spot...you could land on it. Not so in the 757/767. It will go down or slow down...but will not do both very well. So it really requires better descent planning...or you'll end up high and dry around glideslope intercept time and working extrememly hard to slow to gear and flap speeds which are too low IMO. The 727 was like fielding a ground ball in the flare...you never knew if you needed to push or pull or add power or take it off. The 75/76 is just solid. It trims up perfectly and only requires small power adjustments on final and behaves exactly the same during the flare every time. It is not quite as humbling as the 727...but it is a very rare occurrence to get a greaser as well. In spite of it's size, the 757/767 is a great hand flying airplane. Just very solid. Because of its predictability in flying characteristics, it's a good airplane for international pilots who only get to make one or two landings a month.

Interestingly enough though, a lot of long time 727 pilots flunked out of 757/767 school during the transition and were never able to make it through training.

The 3 man crew was something special. International flying with the relief pilot is close to it. The division of workload was really nice...and the camraderie was great as well.

Bottom line though...is the FMS. Once you get used to the FMS I don't know how you go back. If it came down to the 3rd pilot or the FMS, I'm not sure which I'd rather have...but probably the FMS.

But the 727 was definitely a classic, classic machine.

[Pépé le Pilot]

Thanks for those great answers ! Man, whish I was like 15 years older ! Any 707 driver around ?

[GalaxyIFE]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

It is very responsive and light on the controls like the 72...of course they both have 2 sets of ailerons that provide for that touch. It is easier to land, and seems to have much more excess climb power for better performance off the runway. In the 727, if you could point the nose at a spot...you could land on it. Not so in the 757/767. It will go down or slow down...but will not do both very well. So it really requires better descent planning...or you'll end up high and dry around glideslope intercept time and working extrememly hard to slow to gear and flap speeds which are too low IMO. The 727 was like fielding a ground ball in the flare...you never knew if you needed to push or pull or add power or take it off. The 75/76 is just solid. It trims up perfectly and only requires small power adjustments on final and behaves exactly the same during the flare every time. It is not quite as humbling as the 727...but it is a very rare occurrence to get a greaser as well. In spite of it's size, the 757/767 is a great hand flying airplane. Just very solid. Because of its predictability in flying characteristics, it's a good airplane for international pilots who only get to make one or two landings a month.

Interestingly enough though, a lot of long time 727 pilots flunked out of 757/767 school during the transition and were never able to make it through training.

The 3 man crew was something special. International flying with the relief pilot is close to it. The division of workload was really nice...and the camraderie was great as well.

Bottom line though...is the FMS. Once you get used to the FMS I don't know how you go back. If it came down to the 3rd pilot or the FMS, I'm not sure which I'd rather have...but probably the FMS.

But the 727 was definitely a classic, classic machine.

That's what I'm talking about...the engineer makes the crew!!! (OK, just a little )...I know all the thousands of FE time will do me no good when I leave the AF, but man I love the job!!!

[LoadMasterC141]

I would hesitate to say that it will do you NO good. Certainly can't add into your actual flight time, but I am sure a future employer would note all of your hours in a cockpit, particularly those that have pilots that worked their way up through FE positions, like UPS. If Don were a CP doing hiring, I would have to think he would think favorably upon an applicant with lots of FE time.

[GalaxyIFE]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

I would hesitate to say that it will do you NO good. Certainly can't add into your actual flight time, but I am sure a future employer would note all of your hours in a cockpit, particularly those that have pilots that worked their way up through FE positions, like UPS. If Don were a CP doing hiring, I would have to think he would think favorably upon an applicant with lots of FE time.

Very true...I guess I should have elaborated about just the "hours"...I know I have a lot of extras to put on there...school house instructor/evaluator, CRM program manager, now QA for the ground school/SIM instructors...lots of great "extras" just the flight time does me no good "technically."