Foreign Pilot Training.....thoughts please

SierraPilot123 · February 28th, 2008, 04:31

I would be interested to know what many of you think about the pursuit of higher knowledge in aviation.

I am in a bit of a dilemma lately with students and the type of training we are now performing. As a student and an instructor I have gone above and beyond the minimums for my ratings and ground knowledge. All of my instructors were this way and it was the way the school was set up before. Learning about things like high speed aerodynamics, memorizing electrical systems on twins, core turbine engines, accelerate stop, accelerate go, fixed NDB flying, etc.

Now all the training seems to be geared to getting people done asap, with the least amount of training, the cheapest way possible, and just enough to pass. Which is a another whole story given that we have in-house Designated Examiners. Following 141 procedures looks like the past, stage checks with without "approved" stage check pilots common, etc.

Much of this belief is due to the fact that these are foreign students that will return home with 300 hours and fly an A-320. They are under the impression that they wont ever fly anything without an HSI, auto pilot, and other pilot friendly features. Many with over confidence you would never imagine. Flying 250 nm night xc's the day after they get their private to build time.

I have even heard it from one of the DE's mouth that he wouldn't pass a particular student but because they wont be flying here (U.S.) he let it slide. Sure I see his logic, but they will still be carrying a load of passengers eventually.

What do you guys think about this? The truth is, we will be sharing the skies with these pilots one day.

I am all ears.

jwp_145 · February 28th, 2008, 08:20

Welcome to training Indians/Chinese my friend.

DO NOT FEEL BAD WHEN IT TAKES THEM 30 HOURS TO SOLO!!!!! That is the average.

I understand your concerns, as i have had them too. Just don't sign off a student if you are afraid he will not meet the FAA standards. Who cares about the DGCA or the CAAC. FAA STANDARDS!!!

But yeah, when they return home to India/China, sure they only have 300, but the guy in the left seat will have 10,000 to babysit them with.

Give them as much knowledge as you can, and DO NOT compromise YOUR requirements. It will make them a better pilot if you hold them to YOUR standards. Remember, it is YOUR ticket on the line.

That having been said, I"m about to leave for my 400th hour of Dual Given with an Indian. ALL of my dual given is with foreign students, so I know how they think/work/think.

Happy skies,

Joseph

ashtonATL · February 28th, 2008, 08:23

he is right on the money, I had some friends who had solos in the 60-90 hour range!

jwp_145 · February 28th, 2008, 08:37

Actually Ashton, YOUR quote is the average!!! At my last job, and we knocked them out QUICK, the average was more like 45-50!!!! But the upper end was about 65-70. They just don't deal well with machinery like we do... difference of culture. My BEST student, and his dad was a fighter pilot, and this kid was the best one of them, soloed in 35 hours. BUT, the solo is the hardest... they still get their AMEL in 250. Once past the solo, it goes fast. They just have to get the first part.

On to work...

moxiepilot · February 28th, 2008, 08:52

JWP has hit the nail on the head.

Because I had noticed that foreign students really are not held to the same standards, I believe it is my obligation to adhere to the PTS and not sign them off until they can perform.

I dislike undertrained pilots. It annoys the heck out of me.

Speaking English and understanding it also peeves me. I can deal with accents, but a lack of comprehenshion is difficult. I give these people credit for training in an english speaking environment (I couldn't do it in another language), but they're just too darn young. Fluency is paramount IMHO

Training foreign students burnt me out, so I left that environment. I want to enjoy instructing.

SierraPilot123 · February 28th, 2008, 12:23

Ya thanks guys for confirming my thoughts. I have been working with them for 8 months now and everyday I see more and more compromise by the administration. But I will continue to hold to the FAA written standards and PTS for what it is worth.

perpetual · February 28th, 2008, 14:22

You guys have it easy,... what do you do when you start training someone for a PPL license and during your weekend off they were "somehow" magically scheduled for, took, and ahem.. "passed" an Instrument Checkride.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to corruption at its finest, only in China.

Shall I go on?

Toonces · February 28th, 2008, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by perpetual

You guys have it easy,... what do you do when you start training someone for a PPL license and during your weekend off they were "somehow" magically scheduled for, took, and ahem.. "passed" an Instrument Checkride.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to corruption at its finest, only in China.

Shall I go on?

Did you work at BPIFTA?

February 28th, 2008, 04:31	#1
SierraPilot123 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bay Area Posts: 361	Foreign Pilot Training.....thoughts please I would be interested to know what many of you think about the pursuit of higher knowledge in aviation. I am in a bit of a dilemma lately with students and the type of training we are now performing. As a student and an instructor I have gone above and beyond the minimums for my ratings and ground knowledge. All of my instructors were this way and it was the way the school was set up before. Learning about things like high speed aerodynamics, memorizing electrical systems on twins, core turbine engines, accelerate stop, accelerate go, fixed NDB flying, etc. Now all the training seems to be geared to getting people done asap, with the least amount of training, the cheapest way possible, and just enough to pass. Which is a another whole story given that we have in-house Designated Examiners. Following 141 procedures looks like the past, stage checks with without "approved" stage check pilots common, etc. Much of this belief is due to the fact that these are foreign students that will return home with 300 hours and fly an A-320. They are under the impression that they wont ever fly anything without an HSI, auto pilot, and other pilot friendly features. Many with over confidence you would never imagine. Flying 250 nm night xc's the day after they get their private to build time. I have even heard it from one of the DE's mouth that he wouldn't pass a particular student but because they wont be flying here (U.S.) he let it slide. Sure I see his logic, but they will still be carrying a load of passengers eventually. What do you guys think about this? The truth is, we will be sharing the skies with these pilots one day. I am all ears.

February 28th, 2008, 08:20	#2
jwp_145 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tulsa, OK USA Posts: 180	Re: Foreign Pilot Training.....thoughts please Welcome to training Indians/Chinese my friend. DO NOT FEEL BAD WHEN IT TAKES THEM 30 HOURS TO SOLO!!!!! That is the average. I understand your concerns, as i have had them too. Just don't sign off a student if you are afraid he will not meet the FAA standards. Who cares about the DGCA or the CAAC. FAA STANDARDS!!! But yeah, when they return home to India/China, sure they only have 300, but the guy in the left seat will have 10,000 to babysit them with. Give them as much knowledge as you can, and DO NOT compromise YOUR requirements. It will make them a better pilot if you hold them to YOUR standards. Remember, it is YOUR ticket on the line. That having been said, I"m about to leave for my 400th hour of Dual Given with an Indian. ALL of my dual given is with foreign students, so I know how they think/work/think. Happy skies, Joseph

February 28th, 2008, 08:23	#3
ashtonATL Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 62	Re: Foreign Pilot Training.....thoughts please he is right on the money, I had some friends who had solos in the 60-90 hour range!

February 28th, 2008, 08:37	#4
jwp_145 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tulsa, OK USA Posts: 180	Re: Foreign Pilot Training.....thoughts please Actually Ashton, YOUR quote is the average!!! At my last job, and we knocked them out QUICK, the average was more like 45-50!!!! But the upper end was about 65-70. They just don't deal well with machinery like we do... difference of culture. My BEST student, and his dad was a fighter pilot, and this kid was the best one of them, soloed in 35 hours. BUT, the solo is the hardest... they still get their AMEL in 250. Once past the solo, it goes fast. They just have to get the first part. On to work...

February 28th, 2008, 08:52	#5
moxiepilot Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: CFI / CFII in PA Posts: 2,549	Re: Foreign Pilot Training.....thoughts please JWP has hit the nail on the head. Because I had noticed that foreign students really are not held to the same standards, I believe it is my obligation to adhere to the PTS and not sign them off until they can perform. I dislike undertrained pilots. It annoys the heck out of me. Speaking English and understanding it also peeves me. I can deal with accents, but a lack of comprehenshion is difficult. I give these people credit for training in an english speaking environment (I couldn't do it in another language), but they're just too darn young. Fluency is paramount IMHO Training foreign students burnt me out, so I left that environment. I want to enjoy instructing.

February 28th, 2008, 12:23	#6
SierraPilot123 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bay Area Posts: 361	Re: Foreign Pilot Training.....thoughts please Ya thanks guys for confirming my thoughts. I have been working with them for 8 months now and everyday I see more and more compromise by the administration. But I will continue to hold to the FAA written standards and PTS for what it is worth.

February 28th, 2008, 14:22	#7
perpetual Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: RKNN Posts: 185	Re: Foreign Pilot Training.....thoughts please You guys have it easy,... what do you do when you start training someone for a PPL license and during your weekend off they were "somehow" magically scheduled for, took, and ahem.. "passed" an Instrument Checkride. Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to corruption at its finest, only in China. Shall I go on?

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