Taking photos at airports- illegal?

[saxman66]

This brings up the old question again, about photographers getting harassed about taking photos of airplanes or the airport.

I was going to work one day at JFK getting off the Airtrain and walking across the skywalk to the terminal and a family had gathered by the window with a really nice view the of the terminal and sun setting in the back ground and probably a couple heavy's sitting in the background making for quite a good picture. Just to their luck, National Guard who sometimes patrol the airport walks up and announces taking photos is illegal at airports and to put their camera away. They were nice about it, probably just doing their job. But I really had to bite my lip, because I wanted to tell that family, that was a bunch of BS and they could go ahead and take the photo and I'd even volunteer to take it! But, I think that would be frowned upon in front of the Guard, and didn't think they would appreciate that.

Sometimes I like to stand on the ramp and take picture of aircraft. Wonder what they say to that? Of course how do all the photos on airliners.net get on there too? I'm a big fan of railroading too and enjoy taking shots of trains too. I know lots of those guys too, get some flack from LEO's when they stand on a PUBLIC place to shoot photos.

So whats the deal? Have some airports really banned photography or is it one of those myth's everyone thinks is illegal. We do live in a post 9/11 environment I know. Once, the MTA (NYC Transit) tried to pass a law banning photography of any MTA trains or stations. That never came through fortunately.

[SeattlePilot]

Ask them to show the proof.. As an old aviation photog who 'hammered' a lot I can tell you that taking pictures is NOT illegal. They are just abusing their power.. that's all..

[SD3Dog]

Is this Russia? This isn't Russia is it?

[Doug Taylor]

The only time I got barked at for taking pictures is when I was in Romania.

I even asked the guy, "So it's illegal to take pictures of the airplane I'm about to fly? Nice."

[WalterSobchak]

I'm going to have to bring my camera more often so I can get yelled at. I just bought a new one too.

[SD3Dog]

Originally Posted by WalterSobchak

I'm going to have to bring my camera more often so I can get yelled at. I just bought a new one too.

Do you see what happens when you f with someones legal right to..... Do you see? This is what happens Shut the f up Donny... wait....they posted the team schedules? lol Great movie Dude.

[surreal1221]

No, it's not illegal.

[Nick]

They can get you for loitering depending on where you are but if you're on the AirTrain pointing the camera out the window I think it is important to let them know you are allowed to take pictures of things like that. We don't live in a police state, yet.

[falconvalley]

Yet another case of someone not knowing their job as well as they should. The Guard guys may have been trying to apply some sort of local ordinance, but they were incorrect in their application. Technically, it's not illegal to take pictures of "airplanes and airports", but the family may have been in the wrong place. I can't stand it when someone tries to tell you not to do something and it's not even for the correct reason. Nice job, Farva.

[aloft]

It's prohibited on most military ramps, maybe that was the source of their confusion.

Then again, it's kinda dumb to argue with people carrying automatic weapons.

[WalterSobchak]

Originally Posted by SD3Dog

Do you see what happens when you f with someones legal right to..... Do you see? This is what happens Shut the f up Donny... wait....they posted the team schedules? lol Great movie Dude.

My Buddies didn't die face down in the mud so......

[E6BAV8R]

Originally Posted by aloft

Then again, it's kinda dumb to argue with people carrying automatic weapons.

Too bad those weapons don't have any ammo in them eh?

[aloft]

I wouldn't want to get butt-stroked, either.

[granlistillo]

One of my pet peeves is someone who doesnt know the difference between illegal and against policy. And yes, there are various authorities who can make policy, but photographing planes is not illegal, but may not be permissible.

The national guard troops don't enforce the law anyway due to posse comitatus restrictions.

[surreal1221]

And how is the general public going to know about Local Ordinance / Policy number 08-2432454a(1)(ii) that states it is against local ordinance / policy to photograph _____ (insert item).

You won't.

Also, if it's a policy that is internal to an organization, an outside member can never be held for breaking such a policy because the policy was not written with them as an audience.

Furthermore, if the policy is in public view, and is written in such a fashion to indicate that the public is to abide by such a policy then within that document / sign it must reference the controlling organization/association/office, etc. for further reference and guidance.

[cfii2007]

No, its not illegal......

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by aloft

Then again, it's kinda dumb to argue with people carrying automatic weapons.

It's the National Guard . . . kinda like being yelled at by The Air Force . . . almost make-believe. Just tell them there's a monster coming and that their per diem will be canceled. . . that'll keep 'em occupied for hours.

[USMCmech]

Originally Posted by granlistillo

The national guard troops don't enforce the law anyway due to posse comitatus restrictions.

Not quite,

National Guard troops are effectively State militias, and therefore under controll of the state governers and therefore CAN enforce state laws.

Regular Army (USAF, USMC, or USN) including reserve units, belong to the federal govenrment, and can't be used to enforce laws inside the state.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

It's the National Guard . . . kinda like being yelled at by The Air Force . . . almost make-believe. Just tell them there's a monster coming and that their per diem will be canceled. . . that'll keep 'em occupied for hours.

[tonyw]

No, it's not illegal.

You're allowed to take pictures at airports and anyone who tells you otherwise is just plain wrong.

I would file a complaint with the commanding officer of that unit if you can find out who that is. There's absolutely no reason for their troops to be so uninformed and they need to know about it.

[germb747]

How does one win the argument? For example, If you're caught shoplifting, you can't really demand the cop show you the law saying that's illegal. He's under no obligation to do so--you'll just find yourself slapped in handcuffs and hauled off to jail faster.

These people are trained that photography in places like airports is "suspicious behavior" and to investigate further.

Originally Posted by USMCmech

Not quite,

National Guard troops are effectively State militias, and therefore under controll of the state governers and therefore CAN enforce state laws.

Regular Army (USAF, USMC, or USN) including reserve units, belong to the federal govenrment, and can't be used to enforce laws inside the state.

Depends on their status. Under Title 10, no they can't enforce state laws. Otherwise, they can.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by germb747

These people are trained that photography in places like airports is "suspicious behavior" and to investigate further.

Then investigate. . .

But just like the TSA, most of these little "policies/made-up-laws" from small cadres of officers who think they are police are just absolutely ridiculous.

Since there is no oversight though, they continue until the citizens (us) stand up and tell them to provide the actual literature.

You can't find me responsible for doing something illegal if I've never been told it is illegal.

We all (or most of us here) know shop lifting will easily get you into jail, without a doubt. But taking photos of airplanes at an airport? You better be kidding me.

[ILSstud]

It's funny you bring this up. The other day I was in ATL heading out to the Bahamas, and we had to board via air stairs. Anyways it was a beautiful afternoon, I snapped a picture, and low and behond some TSA guy who is fat as hell eating his sandwich and donuts comes running up to me. He asked why I took the picture and then demanded that I deleted the picture. I was tired enough that I was just like whatever man, so I pretended to delete the picture and was on my way. Sad times we live in I suppose. I remember the days when I could get in the cockpit in flight and get those plastic wings. I agree though, that until people start demanding to see these ridiculous and unfounded "laws" on paper, our rights will gradually get stripped away. Perhaps not to the pt of say V for Vendetta but it is all a parallel. In other news, I saw a pilot get strip searched by the TSA and have his flight bag contents thrown around the table. I don't know how guys deal with people like this on a daily basis. I can barely tolerate it on a few weekends a month!

[Tiger815]

Not debating the utility of such rules, but if they were on airport property, the airport authority has the right to decide if they wish to allow photography or not. (No doubt the TSA powers-that-be applies plenty of pressure to have such a rule so their fat Secret Service Wannabes will have something to enforce).

That said such a rule would not make it illegal, but non-compliance would give security a reason to escort you off said property, making it extremely difficult to catch your plane.

As others have pointed out it is not a police state and property owners can still call the shots on their land. (We'll sort of).

[MQAAord]

I gotta say that airport operators probably have the say-so as to whether or not photography can take place on airport property.

Now, if you're sitting off airport property taking pictures then airport authorities can't tell you no.