FAA Opens Investigation on Go! Airlines

[falconvalley]

Was this a CDO? Because at my airline you wouldn't catch me falling asleep at the wheel on an outbound in the morning. Outbounds in the morning are verboten as per our contract. You fly the inbound and that's it, you're done for the day. Now, how I stay awake on the inbound...that's pure magic!

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by Cruise

Or sprawled out across rows 4, 8, and 12!

Exactly. And that's how I'm envisioning this incident. Regional CDOs are not one out, 4-5 hours in the hotel and one back.

Mesa's are more like a turn, one out, sleep in the plane, one back and a turn. These guys most likely fell asleep on the outbound leg of the turn (9 am).

While PCL might enjoy his CDOs, Mesa's are dangerous, though not illegal.

There is nothing in evidence that suggests Go's are any different from Mesa's.

[Ddub1214]

Actually Go doesn't do CDO's. I believe the flying is split between an AM shift and a PM shift. Its possible to do a PM shift followed by an AM shift, but you would get 8 hours in between. Short overnights are still not enough rest if you ask me, but perfectly ok per the FAA.

[zmiller4]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Exactly. And that's how I'm envisioning this incident. Regional CDOs are not one out, 4-5 hours in the hotel and one back.

Mesa's are more like a turn, one out, sleep in the plane, one back and a turn. These guys most likely fell asleep on the outbound leg of the turn (9 am).

Not *all* regional stand-ups are like that--Mesa is in a class by itself

The stand-ups I did at Eagle and the ones I have all month here at Skywest are one leg in, an 8hr layover (6.5hrs at the hotel or so if we aren't late) and one leg back. It's not too bad, even when we're delayed. I agree with PCL, they're OK if you just treat the day as the rest period it's supposed to be and end up with at least 7-8hrs of sleep a day. And they pay pretty well, too.

[sharkey]

Here's an article that was in this morning's paper, toward the end it touches on the scheduling issue and singles out Mesa and not the whole industry. Go! gets a lot of bad press, and people see that they play dirty, but they are still popular with the public.


http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ap...802200422/1001

[jml2992]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

When did Moose's move down to Lewers? It used to be up near UH (back in my day).

Over by Magoo's or further up the hill? Man, I certainly do miss the trips out to Sand Island for drinks by the lagoon at La Mariana. Besides, folks who work at Mesa would be based on Maui and would have to drive all the way down to Lahaina to go to Moose's or would have to hit up Mama's Fish House for the $15 Mai Tai (best one you will ever have in your entire life though...) Anyway, they fly for JO, meaning that they are probably drinking on somebody elses tab or doing unimaginable things for free drinks. Glad everybody is o.k. though.

[FlyChicaga]

At my previous company we had great CDO's. Of course, they provided us with hotels which made a huge difference. There was only two nights in the four months I flew CDO's that I wasn't able to get a few hours sleep. One night we had to deadhead to our maintenance case (a 30-minute flight), pick up a plane, fly back to the hub, then off to Toledo, OH. I think I just stayed up that night watching a movie in the two-something hours at the hotel. The other time was when we rolled up to the hotel to find a college mixer going on... All these women in fancy dresses... My female Captain and I infiltrated the party. No, we didn't drink, but it was fun nonetheless!

Although the CDO's weren't too bad, I'd prefer to never do them again in my career. Reduced rest overnights are difficult enough.

[nwa757]

If they were tired, they should have called in fatigued. That's the FAR. But wait, Mesa chief pilots second guess and put pressure on fatigue calls due to their 'money before safety understaffed culture'.

I really hope this national media attention gives people a heads up about the dirty operations that goes on behind the curtain at Mesa.

Pressure to fly fatigued at Mesa is real, and so are the safety risks.

Friends don't let friends fly for Mesa.

-LAMA

[SeanD]

This story made national headlines today on both msnbc and cnn. The msnbc segment even used the phrase "low time overworked pilots".

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by SeanD

The msnbc segment even used the phrase "low time overworked pilots".

Low time? HA! Some of those guys had 600 or 700 hours when they got hired!!!!

[CamYZ125]

The FO had over 500 in type, and the CA had over 25,000TT and 8,000 in type. Both pilots had over 14 hours of rest in between duty periods in the preceding days, the CA had an average duty day of 8 hrs 39 min, and the FO had an average of 9 hrs and 6 min over the preceding days.

[Jason]

This same thing happened at Allegheny (the 'new' Allegheny) back in the day - probably mid-90's or so. Crew fell asleep and woke up over BOS (destination) at 11,000 ft. (cruise altitude for the Dash). Maybe people weren't watching airlines as closely back then but it was never reported in a public venue and aside from some internal discipline, nothing ever came of it.

Jason

[WalterSobchak]

Atleast turn the ATIS up so it will wake you up when you get close.

[JDMcFly]

Originally Posted by WalterSobchak

Atleast turn the ATIS up so it will wake you up when you get close.

Hmm that's a good idea.


zzzzzz.. winds 220 at 15.. zzzzzz. what's that? *stretch* Time to start the descent!

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by WalterSobchak

Atleast turn the ATIS up so it will wake you up when you get close.

That's such a freight trick.

[CamYZ125]

Wasn't there a mainline flight going into Denver a little while back where both pilots fell asleep? I think I remember that being reported in the media..

[Doug Taylor]

Lemme think... 1996 then, 2008 now... ok, that's 12 years.

Back during my SYX 1900 days...

I'll admit that I was in flight, beat to death from being on leg 7 of 8 one day, and I asked the captain if I could take a 10 minute "combat nap" during his leg. So basically all he had to do is continue flying but take over my radio duties.

I was out about five minutes when I kept hearing Chicago center repeatedly call "Skyway XXXX, Chicago?"

I woke up and the skipper was asleep too. Daggummit!

The scary part is that we had no autopilot.

The GOOD part is that the 1900D is so silky smooth and stable, that we weren't more than 20 or 30 feet off of our altitude and still on course.

[AP2B]

I hope to be able to trim like the pros one day.

[MissedApproach]

It seems amazing to me that these guys could fall asleep as the flight can't be much longer than 20 minutes. I would imagine you'd be getting the destination ATIS and preparing for the arrival while still on the climb out.

GO! pilots work day trips of 4, 6, or 8 legs per day. There's a "morning" shift and an "evening" shift. Here's an example of a typical 6 leg day:

1034 HNL-ITO 0720 0809
1035 ITO-HNL 0828 0915
1035 HNL-LIH 0935 1014
1012 LIH-HNL 1035 1109
1012 HNL-OGG 1135 1210
1004 OGG-HNL 1230 1302

The GO! pilots I know seem to love it out there. They're home every night and work shorter duty days than those on the main land.

[Bog]

The CA on that flight may have plenty of hours in the logbook, but he doesn't have a good reputation with FOs ... or other CAs. I've seen videos taken by at least two FOs of this CA falling asleep in flight ... in the morning. This is nothing new for him.

Yes, they contacted Pro Standards. Yes, he's been demoted more than once.

[PCL_128]

Is it true that he's a Freedumb a-lister?

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

Is it true that he's a Freedumb a-lister?

Do you have a list?

[CamYZ125]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

Is it true that he's a Freedumb a-lister?

And that matters because?? It makes him more susceptible to falling asleep in flight?

[SIUav8er]

Originally Posted by CamYZ125

And that matters because?? It makes him more susceptible to falling asleep in flight?

Sure does! thats why they call em pseudo scabs!

[Gonzo]

And that matters because?? It makes him more susceptible to falling asleep in flight?

Karma