Cross Country Suggestions

[Hubbs]

A friend of mine is coming to visit from London for a couple weeks in early May and we were thinking of going on a little tour and I am looking for some advice, seeing as I am not from around these here parts.

I will be instrument rated with the best part of 200 hours and access to a Bonanza at a pretty cheap rate.

We will be leaving from Dallas and heading West and I have a few questions:

• How far do you thing it would be reasonable to go and be able to return in around 7 days? All the way to Cali?
• How much flying would you want to do in a day?
• There are some obvious things to see such as the Grand Canyon (and Bryce and the other canyons in the area), the Hoover Dam, possibly Yosemite. However, I would really appreciate some suggestions on other things to see.
• What's the deal with getting around locally? Do you have to hire a car or is it possible to get courtesy cars or shuttle buses?
• What about flying into Mexico? Do you need to fly to and from 'International' Airports? Are you likely to get intercepted by the DEA or anything crazy like that?
• Any other suggestions or advice?

Also, does anyone have any experience with taking a small dog on a plane? How do they respond? Could it damage their hearing?

Thanks very much for your advice

[germb747]

Kind of depends on what your goal is. Do you want to fly as far as possible and get as much flying in, or do you want to spend most of your time on the ground sightseeing? Also, you'll need to look as what the weather is doing. That time of year usually brings severe thunderstorms to Texas. If you're lucky enough to find several days of high pressure over the southwest U.S, the sky's the limit. Personally, if I were planning a trip like that, I'd probably fly a couple of two-hour legs per day, weather permitting, to give yourself a chance to stretch, use the restroom, etc. You could make CA in a couple of days at this pace. Just don't put yourself in a situation where the weather sucks on the way back and you're up against a deadline--that makes the trip much less fun and causes "get home itis." Something about Mexico--you need Mexican insurance to fly there--I personally wouldn't bother, but if you must, call AOPA and get their advice. Failure to follow proper border crossing procedures can result in hefty fines from our good friends at CBP. Carlsbad caverns might be a good stop, as is the Grand Canyon. Be careful with the mountains if you're not familiar with that type of terrain. Good luck and have fun!

[sopdan]

Is your friend a licensed pilot? That will have a huge impact on how much flying you will want to do (in numerous ways). I would imagine Mexico may be more work than it's worth, I have no idea what they require in Mexico, but on the way back to the US you will have to go through an airport with Customs, and it is not just a matter of showing up on the Customs ramp. There are things you have to setup ahead of time.

Also, you say that you will be instrument rated, which means to me that you aren't yet. You may be the best pilot ever, or you might not be. Just be honest (truly honest) with yourself about your abilities, and don't push too hard about getting somewhere. It sounds like you have lots of time to do all of this, so hopefully that will relieve some pressure.

As far as sightseeing, make yourself familiar about the rules in those areas that you speak of. The Grand Canyon has some different rules about min. altitude if I'm not mistaken, and I wouldn't be too surprised if the Hoover Dam had some sort of restriction around it.

How much time do you have in the Bonanza? If you don't have much, you may want to think about getting a bit before embarking on your journey.

Some of the stuff I've said may seem discouraging, but it's more a matter of pointing out what you or others may not see. I'll be honest, "future inst. pilot w/ 200 hrs wants to take friend for trans-american trip in a HP/complex plane during t-storm/tornado season" does raise a red flag if not done smartly.

[PatrickCPS]

Some very good points raised here. The biggest concern I would have is weather. You don't want to find yourself, as a low time newly instrument rated pilot, in an unfamiliar plane in bad weather, esp with a passenger (who may or may not also be a pilot).

Use good planning, and fly within the realm of whats comfortable to you. Above all else, be safe.

[skycowboy]

Go for like a New York to London, Direct, nonstop...

[Hubbs]

Thanks for all the replies.

As of this afternoon, I am a private pilot! I have zero time in the Bonanza and have not yet started working on my IR. I am training full time, and truly expect to have my IR by mid-march and should have a couple of hundred hours by May, however, I completely understand that things happen and schedules are not always kept to.

I am not going to push myself if I don't feel confident, and honestly think I am pretty level-headed and have a mature attitude towards my flying. I will try to get as close to 50 hours of time in the Bonanza as possible before embarking on this trip. Otherwise I also have access to to a C177RG (for an even cheaper rate) which I will use if I don't feel 110% confident in the Bonanza. Again, I will try to get as many retrac hours as possible beforehand.

My friend is a non-pilot, so I will be doing all the flying. The main purpose of the trip is sight-seeing rather than just hour building. We both really want to see as many cool things in the southwest. I guess we will give Mexico a miss based on what you have said, seems like it'd be more hassle than it is worth.

What about the 'getting around' issue? I imagine it will get pretty expensive if we have to hire cars everywhere we go? I have heard of some FBOs that have courtesy cars or some municipal airports that have old police cruisers with the keys in them for general use. Is this the case, or just wishful thinking?

Any other suggestions of what to see? Other comments?

Thanks again

[germb747]

It's generally not difficult to secure a courtesy car, if you're planning to buy fuel/handling from the FBO. I don't know how old you are, but when I was under 25, occasionally I'd catch grief about taking the car, but usually not.

[Maurus]

I wouldn't try to go over the rockies till you get proper training for that terrain. If you don't know what to expect at higher elevations you could easily get a prop strike and end your trip fast.

[fosters]

You could go up to KOJA - Weatherford, Oklahoma.

They have a pretty nice air/space museum on the field. Lots & Lots of stuff. I know it's kind of out in the middle of nowhere but, it's a good find.
It's probably about an hour or so from Dallas in a Bonanza.

Good airport, friendly people, courtesy car, and cheap, cheap fuel!

here are some links.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KOJA

http://www.staffordspacecenter.com/

Hope this helps!

[bdhill1979]

Originally Posted by Hubbs

A friend of mine is coming to visit from London for a couple weeks in early May and we were thinking of going on a little tour and I am looking for some advice, seeing as I am not from around these here parts.

I will be instrument rated with the best part of 200 hours and access to a Bonanza at a pretty cheap rate.

We will be leaving from Dallas and heading West and I have a few questions:

• How far do you thing it would be reasonable to go and be able to return in around 7 days? All the way to Cali?
• How much flying would you want to do in a day?
• There are some obvious things to see such as the Grand Canyon (and Bryce and the other canyons in the area), the Hoover Dam, possibly Yosemite. However, I would really appreciate some suggestions on other things to see.
• What's the deal with getting around locally? Do you have to hire a car or is it possible to get courtesy cars or shuttle buses?
• What about flying into Mexico? Do you need to fly to and from 'International' Airports? Are you likely to get intercepted by the DEA or anything crazy like that?
• Any other suggestions or advice?

Also, does anyone have any experience with taking a small dog on a plane? How do they respond? Could it damage their hearing?

Thanks very much for your advice

early may is actually probably one of the better times to venture into the rockies, with caution and some prep work ahead of time it would probably be a pretty nice trip. The best piece of advise that I give to "flatlanders" in regards to the mountains is simply respect them, but don't panic about them. I do a lot of checkout flights with guys from out of town and almost every one of them flips out at the 6000 foot vertical rise 5 miles from the end of the runway; but to me that 5 miles might as well be 100. It is not like a solid wall that you must go over, there are lots of breaks and valleys.

Stick to the victor airways with lower MEAs and you will be just fine.

In regards to KBCE (Bryce Canyon) specifically I personally got my first lesson that forgetting about density altitude can kill you there. The field elevation is 7590 ft and on a hot day I have heard the ASOS reporting a 13000 foot density altitude. Definitely worth stopping there, have lunch at Ruby's Inn (they will send a van to pick you up at the airport) and see the park, but plan accordingly.

A few pics from the last time I was there:

Originally Posted by Maurus

you could easily get a prop strike and end your trip fast.

Huh?

[Maurus]

Originally Posted by bdhill1979

Huh?

Less dense air + same IAS = faster GS

Faster GS + no Instruction = Prop strike or worse on landing. I have spoken to people that have made the mistake on landing at a high elevation airports with little training. Ended up with prop strikes on the runway.

[bdhill1979]

Originally Posted by Maurus

Less dense air + same IAS = faster GS

Faster GS + no Instruction = Prop strike or worse on landing. I have spoken to people that have made the mistake on landing at a high elevation airports with little training. Ended up with prop strikes on the runway.

I have done nearly all of my flying from the 5000 foot level and above and have never heard that as a concern. Takes more runway sure, but there is no difference in controllability. I don't understand how coming in a few knots faster TAS is going to cause a loss of control.

Assuming a constant temperature going from sea level to 10,000 is only going to make 10 knots difference in True airspeed.

10,000 foot pressure altitude and 35 degrees C making a 14000 foot density altitude will only make 15 knots true airspeed difference. That is an EXTREME example. The vast majority of airports in the inter-mountain west are between 4000 and 6500 feet

I don't know what kind of instruction those people got, but every one of my students was taught how to land 15-20 knots faster than usual in event of flap failures. None of them struggled with it.

[mojo6911]

I flew from Arlington (Dallas Suburb) to Vegas last month in a 182. It was about 8.5 hours of flight time each way. We landed in Albuquerque both ways for rest/fuel. We saw mountains, the Hoover Dam, the Grand Canyon.

We didn't notice a big difference in the performance of the airplane, except that it took a little longer to takeoff.