Colorado Flight Schools - McAir vs. Western Air

[vonfonk]

I was hoping someone could give me some advice on which is the better schools for my career goals. I am new pilot hoping to make a change to a full-time aviation career. I have about $35K saved for my trainning and want to make it go as far as possible. I'd evetually like to go the RJ route.

My question is which school is more cost effective. I know McAir has the nice shinny new aircraft but I am really more interested in which will give me more bang for the buck.

Thanks

[Brian Z]

I did my primary and IR at McAir. I am doing my Multi at Western. Both have their merits. I liked the McAir ships because they are all the same. You will have enough to worry about in your primary and IR so take aircraft familiarity out of the equation. McAir does have a higher percentage of time-builders, but they are good instructors.

I went to Western for a few reasons. The Duchess is cheaper and you have the option of flying it solo with a checkout. You cannot do that at McAir. The other main point was I wanted a well seasoned instructor. The one I have is a 20000hr retired CAL captain. I wanted that for him to instill good commercial habits into me.

Feel free to PM me and we can discuss this further.

Brian

[fletchersteel]

I am currently trying to finish up my Private at McAir. I have not looked into Western so I don't have anything to say about them. Now as for McAir, I think that it has been a great choice for me. They have quite a few planes, and they all are fairly new. I have never had a problem with MX or scheduling. They tend to be a fairly busy FBO, so when you do schedule, try to schedule a few weeks ahead of time, otherwise you may not always get the plane and/or the instructor. My instructor has taught me many things above the normal route, and I am greatful of that. I priced other FBO's in the DEN metro area, and McAir seemed to be equal to most others, but their aircraft tended to be a lot newer. There is a lot to learn, and trying to learn it in an "old, wore out" a/c is probably not a good idea. If I were to be in your shoes, I would be certain that I could get all my ratings done at that place. I don't have the funds to continue at McAir, and the loan rates for McAir are well beyond what I can afford, so I am going to have to do the rest of my ratings at one of the "big" schools. If you have any questions about McAir, please send me a pm. Overall, I think McAir is an A+ school, and otherthan the financial arrangements they have, I would finish up there. Just me $.02.

[aerospacepilot]

Originally Posted by vonfonk

I have about $35K saved for my training and want to make it go as far as possible.

You just answered your own question. If you want to get through flight training for just $35k, you CANNOT go to McAir. I like McAir. They are a good school and they have nice airplanes. Unfortunately, no one really cares whether you did your training in a brand new Cessna 172SP with G1000 or if you did your training in a 1980 era Cessna 152. One costs about $65/hr, and the other costs about $145/hr. When we are talking about 250 hours worth of flight training, I think you begin to see the picture.

I personally recommend Journey's. I started flying at Air West and it was bought by Journey's aviation. Journey's is the largest FBO on the field. My favorite part is they have a very diverse fleet. Cessna's 152/172/127RG/182/206, Pipers Cherokee, Archer, Arrow, Seminoles, Diamond Katana's and Diamondstars, and a few others that I forget.
There rates are very reasonable. About $65/hr for a 152, about $85/hr for a 172, and about $165/hr for a Piper Seminole. FYI, that is the cheapest I have ever seen a multi engine airplane.

The best part is Journey's is what every FBO should be. It is a good size. They have plenty of airplanes to meet your need. Scheduling should be much easier since you have so many options. Their rates are very reasonable. And they have very experienced instructors. Unlike a place like ATP where your instructor may have never touched an airplane 6 months ago, almost all of Journey's instructors have over 1000 hours, and several have well over 10,000 hours. If I had to give an example of what a great FBO should be, I would give Journey's.

I am giving you advice because I think it is the best choice. I do not have a vested interest in Journey's. I don't even fly there anymore. But I think they are a top notch FBO and that is a great place to get your ratings.

McAir is just too expensive, and Western Air is alright, but they are smaller than Journey's and not as good in my opinion.
Let me know if you want any more info.

[vonfonk]

Thanks for all of the great info! I guess I have a little bit more research to do. I didn't really consider Journey. I'll have to go back up there and chaeck it out. When you guys were looking at potential flight schools did you setup a time to talk with any of the CFIs?

thanks

[wrxpilot]

Originally Posted by aerospacepilot

I personally recommend Journey's. I started flying at Air West and it was bought by Journey's aviation. Journey's is the largest FBO on the field. My favorite part is they have a very diverse fleet. Cessna's 152/172/127RG/182/206, Pipers Cherokee, Archer, Arrow, Seminoles, Diamond Katana's and Diamondstars, and a few others that I forget.
There rates are very reasonable. About $65/hr for a 152, about $85/hr for a 172, and about $165/hr for a Piper Seminole. FYI, that is the cheapest I have ever seen a multi engine airplane.

I recommed journeys as well for all the same reasons. I have quite a bit of time in good old N4978G. Before I started instructing, I had 0 hrs in a G1000 and very little time with GPS. Guess what? Didn't matter at all. Nobody cares and when I started instructing the school paid for my G1000 training and checkout.

I do recommend considering other locations to instruct though... My CFIs were not treated too well at Journeys. That plus the weather is why I moved to south FL to teach.

[wrxpilot]

Originally Posted by vonfonk

Thanks for all of the great info! I guess I have a little bit more research to do. I didn't really consider Journey. I'll have to go back up there and chaeck it out. When you guys were looking at potential flight schools did you setup a time to talk with any of the CFIs?

thanks

Yes, and that is a good idea. See if Nissim is still around at Journeys. Good guy (tell him Sam said Hi).

[cignaguy]

If you aren't dead set on staying at Metro airport, then try Flights, Inc at Centennial airport. www.flights-inc.com

[CorbiePilot]

Originally Posted by cignaguy

If you aren't dead set on staying at Metro airport, then try Flights, Inc at Centennial airport. www.flights-inc.com

Have you received instruction from Flights, Inc? They're one of the three I'm currently looking at to start my training. So far it's really between them and McAir, and since Centennial is far closer to me than Rocky Mountain Metro and their rates are lower, they're winning the 'race'.

Anyone have any opinions on Daedalus Aviation out of Front Range? I like their aircraft and the facilities, but I wasn't too fond of their insurance policies.

[ElyJs]

McAir is approx 5 mi from the foothills yet they do not allow mountain flying. If you fly in Colorado and never leave the Front Range you are missing out on the reason to fly in Colorado.

I instructed at Journey's for a few months. They aren't really that bad a deal for the student...I don't know how they keep instructors or airplanes online.

-Jason
www.flyboulder.com

[ElyJs]

Here are the big ones

KBJC

Journey's aviation www.journeysaviation.com
McAir aviation www.mcairaviation.com
Western Flight Academy www.westernairflightacademy.com

KFTG
Daedalus www.daedalusaviation.com

KAPA
Flights Inc. www.flights-inc.com/
Aspen Flying Club www.aspenflyingclub.com/

KEIK
Vector Air www.vectorair.net

KBDU
Flatirons Aero www.flyboulder.com -This is me!
Journeys Aviation - www.journeysaviation.com
Specialty Flight www.specialtyflight.com

KFNL
Colorado Contrails www.coloradocontrails.com

[DavCo]

As both a student of McAir and now an instructor, I have a little detailed information about them.

For one, we have a full spectrum of instructors, most of whom have over 1000 hours. We have about 4 "career" CFI's that have been there for years. But just like any flight school, instructors come and go.

As for your 35k, McAir's rates are $112 for the plane and $47 for the instructor. That is around 220 flight hours. So if flying comes naturally to you (and you study hard), McAir can get you through your private, instrument and multi commercial if you split some time with some of our other students (or your buddies).

McAir makes it easy for you to schedule out your training, and we have many planes at your disposal. PM me anytime for more information on McAir. I have not trained at the other schools, but I have friends at Journey's and Western, and they seemed to like them. So good luck and let me know if I can help you any further.

[Milesar]

I think you'll find the price at McAir is the cheapest when looking at what your getting, 112/hr for a 2006 172SP is pretty good. Like Brian said earlier they are all similar so its seamless to move around the fleet, and there are aircraft available almost all the time.

Mx is great, things will not stay down for long. If your flying through the Winter McAir uses wing covers and hanger space to keep your flights going.

I used to Instruct there, and you may find many others here did too, or are still doing so (HI DAVE). Instructors there are great and they do take very seriously who they hire.

[DavCo]

Hey Tony!