Jet Transition?

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by 777forever

They aren't spending your money.

No, they're just reducing your ability to earn it.

[meyers9163]

Just to add what has already been touched on. I really was considering a Jet Transition course while working for ATP. I really was thinking it'd be the quick way to get hired more so to get a job and pass training. That was the ONLY reason I was considering it. If you are considering a Jet Transition course because you think it will help with passing sim, and flows, and passing IOE perhaps you should rethink if you are ready to make the jump to a regional. At this point if you are about to head to a regional you should have the fundamentals of IFR down solid, be able to make quick and accurate decisions, and you should really have a good feeling if you are ready or not. I recently have just completed 121 training and am awaiting IOE. I am VERY GLAD I did not spend a dime of mine trying to get hired sooner by taking a Jet Course. I however was not one who was trying to get hired at a commercial wet and had around 600/200 when hired. My best word of advice on a jet course is if you are doing it to gain experience to prepare you for the airline world perhaps your money would be better spent getting actual flying time such as being a CFI and getting real world experience. I cannot say from what I saw the guys in my class with an RJ course did any better or worse. If anything they had to unlearn items that were not company standards and procedure.....

Most of all as I mention before, I really believe if you are considering a RJ course due to being scared of failling out of training perhaps you need to re think if you truely are ready to make the jump into the 121 world.

[Trip7]

Originally Posted by SteveC

No, they're just reducing your ability to earn it.

not really. Cherokee Cruiser going to Jet U is having NO effect on my salary. I don't know where you guys get that fantasy from.

[NJA_Capt]

Originally Posted by 777forever

Cherokee Cruiser going to Jet U is having NO effect on my salary. I don't know where you guys get that fantasy from.

You just keep telling yourself that.....

[Trip7]

Originally Posted by NJA_Capt

You just keep telling yourself that.....

I will

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

If you are considering a Jet Transition course because you think it will help with passing sim, and flows, and passing IOE perhaps you should rethink if you are ready to make the jump to a regional....

Most of all as I mention before, I really believe if you are considering a RJ course due to being scared of failling out of training perhaps you need to re think if you truely are ready to make the jump into the 121 world.

You have learned much, young padawan.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by 777forever

not really. Cherokee Cruiser going to Jet U is having NO effect on my salary. I don't know where you guys get that fantasy from.

Umm... Marcus, it might not effect YOUR salary, but it is effecting your fellow pilot's salary. Now if you want to be one of those old school ALPA guys who says "I got mine, screw you!" then fine. But some how I don't think you are like that.

Lets look at two guys right now...

We'll call one "IndianBoat" and the other "TheDude".

Both have 300 hours. Both are competent pilots (for their time) and are applying to the same regional. In the PRE RJ course days, if they could pass the interview, good for them... they were both hired and tooling around in their shiny jets gettin' da ladies. Of course, on their salary of 21K a year it was hard to do much with the ladies, but we all know chicks love the uniform so at least they were getting them.

Well, along comes the Big Bad RJ Course. IndianBoat is worried about his ability to make it through training AND he's seen in the nice pretty advertising of the BBRJC that it will GET HIM A JOB FAST. All he has to do is spend $6000. So off he goes to CAE, ATP, RAA, FSI or what ever other catchy three letter place does it and he gets himself an edumacation. He gets no flight time out of it. He gets no ratings out of it. But he got him self learnified.

Now, IndianBoat and TheDude (who spent his time instructing or running freight or something) both go to the interview. Now TheDude's got 100 more hours then IndianBoat, but IndianBoat's got the BBRJC. The HR lady's all swoon over IndianBoat (they must be picturing him in his uniform) and offer him the job. Then they say to TheDude, "well, you have some experience, but your flight time is too low. If you go take the RJ course, we'll hire you."

So now TheDude has got a choice to make. He can spend 6K and then get hired or he can keep doing what he's doing, make some cash, but lose out on seniority at the Airline.

Let me do the math for ya...

For IndianBoat:
$21,000 - $6000 (and investment in the future) = SHINY JET!!!

For TheDude
$21,000 - $6000 (a waste of money to him) = $16,000

So, Marcus, just because YOU aren't spending the money doesn't mean the people that do aren't hurting the bottom line for others.

And this is my problem with the program. I have no problem that it's a "short cut" (I personally don't think it is that much of one). I don't care that it wasn't available to me (it was in fact and I turned it down). I don't care so much that it is putting highly inexperienced pilots in the right seat (although I probably should start worrying about that in the next month or so). But what bothers me is that it is making people spend money that they otherwise wouldn't have to that comes DIRECTLY off their first year pay, which sucks enough as it is.

I think I'm done with this thread before I say something I regret. You never know, I may run for office some day or something and I'd hate to have something dug up

[kellwolf]

Except, once you figure in the cost of the RJ course, wouldn't TheDude actually make $15K instead of $19K?

[Gonzo]

The saddest thing is most of the RJ courses cost less then getting your CFI ratings.

[meyers9163]

An RJ course cost nearly 7k... If you cant get your CFI, CFII, and almost your MEI for 7k perhaps you need to rethink the route you are doing it. All of your CFI's together should cost maybe the same amount. However the price isnt the issue. The fact of the matter is the experience you learn even if you only give 200-300 hours of dual is far better then an RJ course....

[SmoothLanderJ]

Originally Posted by 777forever

Man you guys hurt your head over this subject every other week. In the real world nobody cares. Do what you gotta do to get where you want to go. If somebody don't like how you did your training, thats between them and their self-esteem. Enough with all this bringing down the industry baloney. Lets get real. If somebody doesn't want to CFI let it go. This is America. Freedom of choice. They aren't spending your money.

I agree.....

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

An RJ course cost nearly 7k... If you cant get your CFI, CFII, and almost your MEI for 7k perhaps you need to rethink the route you are doing it. All of your CFI's together should cost maybe the same amount. However the price isnt the issue. The fact of the matter is the experience you learn even if you only give 200-300 hours of dual is far better then an RJ course....

But, Paul.....It's a JET! And....and...seniority is everything!

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

An RJ course cost nearly 7k... If you cant get your CFI, CFII, and almost your MEI for 7k perhaps you need to rethink the route you are doing it. All of your CFI's together should cost maybe the same amount. However the price isnt the issue. The fact of the matter is the experience you learn even if you only give 200-300 hours of dual is far better then an RJ course....

I know a company that offers the cheapest RJ transition course around.

Sub-3k.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

I know a company that offers the cheapest RJ transition course around.

Sub-3k.

You can always give me 3k and I'll help ya out..... Fresh out of Ground/Sim I am sure that stuff can be replicated and help one out.....

For real though 3k you can get your MEI and a chunk of your CFII out.....People should remember a CFI/CFII/MEI is a matter of how much work you put into it. Its not a matter of paying an FBO a crap load of money to teach them. You put the work in yourself you can get any of thsoe ratings done fairly cheap.

[surreal1221]

Have to agree with that, easily.

I gained all three of mine for less than $1500.

But really Paul. . .who are we to think that people want to actually use their knowledge for a job, when they can just run out to the cheapest vendor of a get there quick scheme gone wrong?

[Tram]

Guys, the transition courses are very useful..

My captain just tonight was talking about how it obviously helped me...

[TheAlchemist]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Gonzo, it's not about CFIing vs RJ Courses. It's about experience. If you are going to rent a 172 and tool around in it to get 500 hours, that's fine. But make sure you actually DO stuff in that time. Not just repetitive point A to point B and back. Go fly into congested airspace. Go fly into some (manageable) weather. Force yourself into situations where YOU have to make hard decisions. Fly with other people. Get used to sitting next to a guy in a hot and sticky (or freezing cold) airplane for a few hours. That's what experience is about.

The Anti RJ course people are NOT saying (for the most part) that CFIing is the only way. It's just that MOST of them got their experience that way and hence, it's what they know. I don't think anybody who CFIed to get their time would say going to fly freight is a bad thing. It's just that they don't know anything about it.

I'm sure there are a few people who did both (Lloyd comes to mind, and maybe when he's done feeling sorry for himself about how crappy his job currently is he could talk about the different types of experience gained from instructing versus running freight...)

It just seems like there are a group of people who's goal is to get into a jet as fast as they can and aren't concerned about the fact that once they get there (and they with an RJ course they probably will... it DOES teach you how to get through ground and sim) will have NO CLUE as to what is actually going on in the airplane. The right seat of a jet (or a prop for that matter) is NOT the place to be learning basic stuff you should have learned in a Cessna or a light twin.

You got your RJ job fast? Who cares. If you suck at the basics you're not helping anybody but your self.

And that's what this is mostly about. I'm generalizing, but the ME generation, that thank god I somehow avoided, doesn't really care that they aren't qualified for the job. They got it and they're sitting in their jet and that's all that matters.

Best post by far!

Good job BobDDuck!

[JEP]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

........
For IndianBoat:
$21,000 - $6000 (and investment in the future) = SHINY JET!!!

For TheDude
$21,000 - $6000 (a waste of money to him) = $16,000
.....

BDD, might want to re-edit your numbers again:

let me get my calculator, but 21000-6000= $15,000

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by Tram

Guys, the transition courses are very useful..

My captain just tonight was talking about how it obviously helped me...

I surely hope there was a sarcasm tag attached that somehow was lost?

[JEP]

Originally Posted by Tram

I did my jet transition course at Pinnacle..

Originally Posted by Tram

Yeh, it was nuts.. They paid me to do it..

Originally Posted by meyers9163

I surely hope there was a sarcasm tag attached that somehow was lost?

see above two quotes

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by JEP

BDD, might want to re-edit your numbers again:

let me get my calculator, but 21000-6000= $15,000

I hawb a cawld....


Actually, I'm feeling slightly better today, but not good enough to go back to work today (or probably tomorrow). Damn... I guess that means I'll be home to watch the super bowl.

(and just in case any management spies are reading this... I DIDN'T PLAN IT THAT WAY!)

[JEP]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

I hawb a cawld....


Actually, I'm feeling slightly better today, but not good enough to go back to work today (or probably tomorrow). Damn... I guess that means I'll be home to watch the super bowl.

(and just in case any management spies are reading this... I DIDN'T PLAN IT THAT WAY!)

Why would mgmt types from Xjet be reading this on a Saturday?

[Tram]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

I surely hope there was a sarcasm tag attached that somehow was lost?

I <3 Jet Transition Courses!

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Actually, I'm feeling slightly better today, but not good enough to go back to work today (or probably tomorrow). Damn... I guess that means I'll be home to watch the super bowl.

(and just in case any management spies are reading this... I DIDN'T PLAN IT THAT WAY!)

Sorry to hear you are under the weather. Maybe running around in 30,20,10 degree weather with wind chills without a major coat did you in!

At least it isnt food poisining!

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by JEP

Why would mgmt types from Xjet be reading this on a Saturday?

Good Lord! I wouldn't be caught dead flying an ERJ. Eww.



(I don't work for them. And the company I work for... I seriously doubt any of the current management is computer literate enough to find the "any key" to get things started... but you never know.)