Jet Transition?

[Gonzo]

CC you don't get it. It is not the RJ course it is most of the people taking the course aren't to get a head they are going to take a shortcut.

The people you named: how many App to mins did they have how much actual time did they have.

[surreal1221]

Uh huh. . .yup.

Nevertheless, just cause people are being hired without these courses, does not make them ethical for the profession.

But I digress. . .discussing this subject with individuals who are so gung-ho about them is just like talking to a brick wall.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

I've had current Pinnacle pilots come up to me and when they see my ID (so when they see my name), they say, "hey, you're xxxxxxxx?" I've heard good things about you from [insert pilot I flew with]. etc. etc.

Ya know... I'm going to have to call BS on this. 9E is about 3 times bigger then where I am, and even at a small place like here NOBODY would say something like that. I mean, I guess it's possible that your pilot group is a bunch of neighborly dudes who give back rubs in the crew room, but some how I doubt it. If your name is coming up as much as you say it is, I'd be 99% sure that it is because people think you suck and don't want to fly with you. Most people come to work to do a job and go home. Being just another anonymous FO (or Captain) is pretty much everybody's goal. The names that get mentioned are the trouble makers and the low skill guys who's captain's have to watch every move they make (or who's FO's have to play captain for the trip.

But hey, in 9E land maybe good work really does get noticed. I've been wrong before.

And before you get all upset, I'm not making any judgments about you. I'm just saying that I think it's a fairy tale that somebody would look at your badge and say they heard you were a rock star on the flight deck.

[adreamer]

CC, I am just wondering about this. If RJ course is not short cut any more, why would you want to spend the money for an airline interview?

If you are a good pilot, good for you. But, I agree with Bobduck. Most of people are try to be "un-noticed" in the pilot group. Unless, you have my kind of accent(everybody can recognized my voice on freq.)

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by adreamer

CC, I am just wondering about this. If RJ course is not short cut any more, why would you want to spend the money for an airline interview?

Because a lot airlines have a jet sim evaluation I think it is BS. For a lot of people they have never been in a sim before and don't know they can pay for time in a sim.

[kellwolf]

If I remember correctly, there was some serious selective hearing going on when C_C first started all this. As in, the mentors he selected were ones that thought the RJ transition course was great. Any one with other opinions wasn't picked as a "mentor." If that's the case, you could potentially argue that scabs are fine as long as you pick the right guys at Continental as mentors. If you want a good, overall viewpoint, you need to listen to differing opinons, not plug your ears when you hear something you don't agree with.

It's not a "b*tchfest" as some would call it. It just doesn't line up with what some people want to hear. That's it. Is CFIing the only way? Nope. Is it the "best way?" Not for everyone. If someone REALLY wants an RJ transition course taught by Pinnacle pilots with Pinnacle manuals and checklists.....I'll do it. In fact, since I don't have the fancy sim or the HR kick backs, I'll do it for half of JetU's price. Save yourself thousands of dollars that way. If you're not really in it for a short cut, then why pay the extra for JetU?

Now, when it comes to getting through checkrides....I can take someone with bare bones basic instrument skills and get them a IR in TX. Why? B/c I know EXACTLY what the DE is gonna do and what he's gonna ask in the oral. I can do the same thing for a PPL, CSEL, CMEL, and CFI add-ons, too. Like Jtrain said, you can fake it through a check ride. You can even fake it through OE and your entire time as an FO, too. For every "That guy was good" story you might have about jet transition guys, I've heard at least as many "I thought I was gonna die/have to take the controls" stories.

[jtrain609]

I've done sim evals for interviews before, trust me it doesn't matter what the eval is done in. Most guys that I did evals for had never seen the type of sim we were doing them in and had never seen the profiles. A good applicant won't let that stand in their way, and their fundamental instrument skills and teachability will shine through fumbling through the new aircraft.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Because a lot airlines have a jet sim evaluation I think it is BS. For a lot of people they have never been in a sim before and don't know they can pay for time in a sim.

Which regionals, though? PCL used to have a Frasca sim, but I guess too many guys were busting it. They ditched it. XJT doesn't have a sim eval, and I'm pretty sure Skywest's eval is NOT a "jet sim." Colgan is in a sim, but not a jet. Not sure about Mesaba, ASA or RepubChutaquAmerica.

[jtrain609]

That's RepubliAirShuttleChataquatron, my friend.

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Which regionals, though? PCL used to have a Frasca sim, but I guess too many guys were busting it. They ditched it. XJT doesn't have a sim eval, and I'm pretty sure Skywest's eval is NOT a "jet sim." Colgan is in a sim, but not a jet. Not sure about Mesaba, ASA or RepubChutaquAmerica.

I didn't know PCL(I might put them back on my list) dropped the Frasca and I think Skywest uses a FTD both I can't fly to save my life.

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

I've done sim evals for interviews before, trust me it doesn't matter what the eval is done in. Most guys that I did evals for had never seen the type of sim we were doing them in and had never seen the profiles. A good applicant won't let that stand in their way, and their fundamental instrument skills and teachability will shine through fumbling through the new aircraft.

But the sim at ASA my number one is a pass or fail sim.

[jtrain609]

Every interviewer will tell you that, it's not exactly how things tend to work in my experience. The reason it's "pass or fail" is because you either have the skills to move on, or you don't. It's pretty obvious to an interviewer within a few minutes whether somebody has those skills or not.

And you wanna know the biggest way to blow the sim eval? Complain about how you have never flown X sim before. The interviewer doesn't care, and has seen tons of folks get through the interview before without having touched that sim either. Intsead, when you screw something up say, "Hey, I screwed up X, I should have done Y and here's how I'd fix it."

Got me at job at Amflight!

[777forever]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

But the sim at ASA my number one is a pass or fail sim.

Don't worry bout it just practice on flightsim and keep your scan going. Its a real basic profile and they give you a through briefing on how to fly it. Just don't get nervous and mess up.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Ya know... I'm going to have to call BS on this. 9E is about 3 times bigger then where I am, and even at a small place like here NOBODY would say something like that.

Call what ever you want, I'm saying things as is, as happened.

I guess it's possible that your pilot group is a bunch of neighborly dudes who give back rubs in the crew room,

<deleted>

but some how I doubt it. If your name is coming up as much as you say it is, I'd be 99% sure that it is because people think you suck and don't want to fly with you. Most people come to work to do a job and go home. Being just another anonymous FO (or Captain) is pretty much everybody's goal. The names that get mentioned are the trouble makers and the low skill guys who's captain's have to watch every move they make (or who's FO's have to play captain for the trip.

I am just another FO. It's only happened three times where another pilot came up and said hi and that stuff in the previous post. Our pilot group is small, but spend enough time at the crew room on airport reserve, and you get to know many pilots. Even on first name basis.

But hey, in 9E land maybe good work really does get noticed. I've been wrong before.

And before you get all upset, I'm not making any judgments about you. I'm just saying that I think it's a fairy tale that somebody would look at your badge and say they heard you were a rock star on the flight deck.

Kinda late for apologies there, pal. With stuff like "call BS on this" and "I'd be 99% sure that it is because people think you suck and don't want to fly with you" ......... you've shown your true colors.
Don't bother judging me, you've never met me, and you don't know me.

[surreal1221]

Uh ouh. . .

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

As I said before, to each his own!

If you CFI and get to the regionals, then great!

If you take an RJ course and get to the regional, then great!

If you traffic watch/pipeline/fly skydivers, etc, and get to a regional, then great!


I don't care where people come from at a regional. All that matters to me is that you get hired at a regional, make it through training, and come on the line to join our pilot family.


At my airline, there are plenty of Gulfstream Academy pilots, and I love 'em. I don't care if anyone comes from Gulfstream. If you get hired at the regional I am, then I'm happy for you. And none of those BS that Gulfstreamers will never get hired at a major legacy. I know a Pinnacle Captain who just got hired at United. He was a Gulfstream Academy guy, came to Pinnacle, and will now go to United.


As I said before, to each his own.

[surreal1221]

Spine

Meet

Less. . .

[MQAAord]

I would love to leave this thread open.

Let's keep it on topic, and keep it civil.

[kellwolf]

Sorry, CC. I can't be an "ends justifies the means" kinda guy. GIA guys lower the bar b/c they prove to management that someone will pay for a job that the airline should be paying them to do. JetU and other transition courses prove to management that people will pay for ground school (more or less). Do we really want to go back to the days when everyone had to pay for ground school? 'Cause JetU especially sets up that slippery slope. We've already got enough "I'm just happy to be here" guys at PCL. We don't need more people that will roll over for Phil T and Co just so they can keep flying a shiny jet.

[D_R_ATC]

O.K. folks, this thread has officially gone south...that was not the intend. I'd like to thank everybody for their comments/thoughts..etc. positive/negative/realistic...whatever!!! but i think it is time to let it go.....

[30West]

...

[30West]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Learning systems will MAYBE help you get through ground school. Really, the systems on most RJs are so easy a cave man could learn them.

NOT COOL!

[jtrain609]

Dude that's so a Metroliner, and a cave man couldn't even begin to think about how ####ed up a Metroliner is.

[KC Jake]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

Know a guy hired at Piedmont with 260 hrs and 40 hrs ME time. No RJ course.

Know a guy hired at PSA with 275 hrs and 50 hrs ME time. No RJ course.

Know a guy hired at Mesaba with 300 hrs total time and 40 hrs ME time. No RJ course.

Know two guys hired at TSA with about 270 hrs total time each, one with 30 hrs ME and one with 50 hrs ME. No RJ courses for either of them.

Aren't you kind of proving the point of the people saying jet transition courses are worthless? If you can get a job with or without it, why would you waste thousands of dollars on it?

[777forever]

Man you guys hurt your head over this subject every other week. In the real world nobody cares. Do what you gotta do to get where you want to go. If somebody don't like how you did your training, thats between them and their self-esteem. Enough with all this bringing down the industry baloney. Lets get real. If somebody doesn't want to CFI let it go. This is America. Freedom of choice. They aren't spending your money.