Need a honest opinion. Would you...

[TheAlchemist]

Work for Great Lakes Airlines if:

1) Money is not an issue.

2) 2-3 hours commute is the most you are willing to deal with.

3) You want to move on from a Regional airline in 3 years or less.

4) You want to hand fly a T-prop for 2500+ hours before you go to a fancy all glass cockpit jet.

5) You are aware that QOL and pay sucks but you're willing to do it anyway because you want to reach the next level on your career sooner than later. Let's just say you want to have kids but you are not doing so until you get that corporate or major airline job you've always dreamed about.


I heard GLA have a great pilot group. Is this true?

[JEP]

It may seem like a simple answer, but you have to consider all factors both Pro and Con and make your decision from that.

What works for you may or may not work for another.

As for #5, not all places are like that. That being said, management is counting on you to feel that way.

[TheAlchemist]

Originally Posted by JEP

As for #5, not all places are like that. That being said, management is counting on you to feel that way.

Thanks for the input Jep.

In other words they are counting on me to have the "right" reasons. As for #5 I know not all places are like that. I was specifically talking about GLA.

[Jason]

Be careful regarding step number 5....be sure that you go somewhere that you are ok being "stuck" at for while. You never know what's going to happen in the industry and you can't count on taking the next step in 3 years or 5 years or even 10 years. I had, by all accounts, a golden career...my first job out of college was flying a Starship and King Air. I go to Midway and my plan was to stay at Midway until Delta called and be based in CVG and live happily ever after.......that was, geez, going on 7 years ago now.

My point is, don't be too hasty to make a decision now based on future plans...go to whatever airline is the best fit for you NOW. If Great Lakes works for your commute and your desire to fly the mighty Beech - then great -- just don't count on leaving in 3 years, or at least have a backup plan if you can't leave that soon.

Jason

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by TheAlchemist

4) You want to hand fly a T-prop for 2500+ hours before you go to a fancy all glass cockpit jet.

Why in the world would you want to do that???



Seriously though, if you feel like hand flying old beaters for a while, have you considered freight? Many times the initial pay and schedules are better than the regionals.

[TheAlchemist]

Originally Posted by Ian J

Why in the world would you want to do that???



Seriously though, if you feel like hand flying old beaters for a while, have you considered freight? Many times the initial pay and schedules are better than the regionals.

I have considered flying freight but wife says she will sleep better at night if she knows I'm not flying single pilot IFR at night. Yeah I know, I'm also suspicious that she thinks I suck as a pilot . But you know here at home we do work as a team and her opinions always count. Yeah.. what a wuss...I know, I know. I will keep working on convincing her that single pilot ops is just as safe specially if you don't have a 250 FO messing things up on the right seat.

I have applied with Air Cargo Carriers. I was under the impression they fly the Shorts with a 2 mew crew. Am I right?

[cwu50]

Originally Posted by TheAlchemist

Work for Great Lakes Airlines if:
I heard GLA have a great pilot group. Is this true?

I know a guy who flys for them and he said the same thing. They have a killer halloween party and even ex lakers take care of the ones still there who have to put up with that ****. With pay and QOL like that I'd hope that I had a good group of guys to fly with. He also said the a lot of people only half support Teamsters ( Don’t pay dues) so when it comes to negotiate a new contract, Teamsters only half negotiates.

[TheOneMarine]

Two bits of advice.... Last I checked, they have an 18 month training contract so it had better be a place you can put up with for that long. If you have ANY doubts that you can do so, turn it down.

Second, Hope Velocipede doesn't come in here and read #5

[TheAlchemist]

Originally Posted by TheOneMarine

Two bits of advice.... Last I checked, they have an 18 month training contract so it had better be a place you can put up with for that long. If you have ANY doubts that you can do so, turn it down.

Second, Hope Velocipede doesn't come in here and read #5

I was under the impression they have a 15 months training contract and I'd be willing to be there for 2 1/2 - 3 years.

I would love to hear what Velo has to say. Good or bad it doesn't matter...I'm all ears.

[OldTownPilot]

The shorts is a 2 person airplane no matter the operation.

My opinion: Do whatever you want, fight for all of us no matter where you are, Expect the unexpected, have fun.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by Jason

Be careful regarding step number 5....be sure that you go somewhere that you are ok being "stuck" at for while. You never know what's going to happen in the industry and you can't count on taking the next step in 3 years or 5 years or even 10 years. I had, by all accounts, a golden career...my first job out of college was flying a Starship and King Air. I go to Midway and my plan was to stay at Midway until Delta called and be based in CVG and live happily ever after.......that was, geez, going on 7 years ago now.

My point is, don't be too hasty to make a decision now based on future plans...go to whatever airline is the best fit for you NOW. If Great Lakes works for your commute and your desire to fly the mighty Beech - then great -- just don't count on leaving in 3 years, or at least have a backup plan if you can't leave that soon.

Jason

I think Jason just nailed it.

Within 9 months of graduating college I had a seniority number at Ameriflight, a job that was going to provide me with type ratings and turbine PIC time from about 1,200 hours onward. There was a point at Amflight that I realized I was going to hit Southwest minimums at around 26 and a half, and I realized a few things.

If I got stuck flying a Metroliner sleeping 4 hours during the day and 4 hours during the night I was going to run a plane into a mountain when I fell asleep one early morning.

I was going to find myself miserable, only chasing a career and not enjoying my life. Pissing away my 20's on a "stepping stone carrier" that might turn into a 10 year stepping stone didn't sound like a good idea.

I was going to possibly begin to hate flying, and I'd for sure hate life.

I realized it wasn't worth it on the gamble that the mainlines MIGHT be hiring a few years later, and that I WOULDN'T hate flying, so I joined the regional rat race. You know what?

I couldn't be happier with my move.

I'm not making enough money, I work too many days a month, but overall my quality of life is MUCH better today than it was a year ago, I'm able to see my fiance more while I'm at Express while being based in Newark than I would be able to if I were based at home with Amflight. Further, if the music stops and I get stuck here for 10 years? Big deal. I'll upgrade in 5 years and be making $70,000 a year and I'll have a decent schedule instead of having to make $45,000 a year to fly a Metroliner.

Or in other words, the sacrifice of fast career progression wasn't worth it to me. Maybe it is to you, but it wasn't for me and I couldn't be happier with where I'm at.

[WalterSobchak]

Originally Posted by TheAlchemist

I have considered flying freight but wife says she will sleep better at night if she knows I'm not flying single pilot IFR at night. Yeah I know, I'm also suspicious that she thinks I suck as a pilot . But you know here at home we do work as a team and her opinions always count. Yeah.. what a wuss...I know, I know. I will keep working on convincing her that single pilot ops is just as safe specially if you don't have a 250 FO messing things up on the right seat.

I have applied with Air Cargo Carriers. I was under the impression they fly the Shorts with a 2 mew crew. Am I right?

We have a couple of guys that came from Air Car. It is 2 pilot(due to the sh33 and sh36 being 2 pilot) as previously stated. Be prepared to move if you don't live in one of the domiciles. Your schedule is pretty well...Freight.

Why I wouldn't go to lakes....
The whole problem with people saying "I'm just going to go to X and move on to the majors" is what if they arent hiring? What if 3 years from now there are 3 combined Legacy carriers and lots of furloughs applying for the Spirit's,Sun Country's, Alliegent's etc? Then you are stuck at a POS as a CA making less than most regional yes regional FO's.
My $.02 is plan as if you are going to be stuck at that job. That way if you are for longer than you want you won't be disapointed or have to make a lateral move. Where do you live and can you move? Surely you must have other options to throw around? Single pilot isn't bad as long as you are with a good company. There are enough different back grounds of flying here to bounce some ideas off you.

[TheAlchemist]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

I'm not making enough money, I work too many days a month, but overall my quality of life is MUCH better today than it was a year ago, I'm able to see my fiance more while I'm at Express while being based in Newark than I would be able to if I were based at home with Amflight. Further, if the music stops and I get stuck here for 10 years? Big deal. I'll upgrade in 5 years and be making $70,000 a year and I'll have a decent schedule instead of having to make $45,000 a year to fly a Metroliner.

What you are saying makes a lot of sense. But that would hold true only IF the regional you work for is still around in 5 - 10 years. Not saying it won't be but as we all know Regionals are unpredictable.

[jtrain609]

That's true, but I'll take this bet over my other one.

And when it comes down to it that's what we're discussing here. We're talking about which #### sandwich you want to eat, and how long you're willing to chow down for. Because when it comes down to it you're either talking stability with your job at a freight company and having a horrible schedule, or having a better schedule and less stability at a good regional. I've seen both sides and I'll take what I'm doing now to tell you the truth.

It also helps that I can replace my income by working at Wendy's, so that kinda takes some of the lack of stability out of the equation. If I lose my job, I can still pay the bills making just as much while at a fast food joint.

[pullup]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

It also helps that I can replace my income by working at Wendy's...

Funny, but sad....

[LoadMasterC141]

2 Jr. Bacon Cheeseburgers
Biggie Fry
Biggie Coke

(JohnnyTrain voice) -"Thank you drive through"

[skydog]

Not if they were the last airline on earth would I work for GLA.

[Capt. Caucasian]

A lot of legacies won't hire from GLA or a lot of other turboprop only operations anymore. There are just too many RJ folks out there in the pool. Not saying it is impossible, but improbable. This is not meant to bring up the debate between what is better time, jet or prop, just reality.

Also, three years of flying a prop (let's say 2500 hours) ain't going to get you very far with getting an interview. The average out there right now is in the 6000 - 8000 hour range with about eight to ten years of experience. Unless you have a golden ticket (dad's the VP of Flt Ops) you will need more than 3000ish TT.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by TheAlchemist

I have applied with Air Cargo Carriers. I was under the impression they fly the Shorts with a 2 mew crew. Am I right?

You also have to pretty much live out of your car because you move around so much. It's like permanent TDY. Every thing has trade offs.

I think you'll find your "typical" 121 prop CA moves on to a supplemental or undesirable LCC to sit and wait for the "big boys" to call. This isn't a bad way to go though because that additional heavy time sets them apart. Most of the RJ guys are happy to sit in the left seat because they are making a livable wage and wait for who they want to work for to call. That can be good and bad. I have on good accord that the maximum CAL looks for in a interviewee is around 7000 hours. They want to see people that have ambition to "move up" and not get comfortable.

[Snuggle]

Originally Posted by Capt. Caucasian

A lot of legacies won't hire from GLA or a lot of other turboprop only operations anymore. There are just too many RJ folks out there in the pool. Not saying it is impossible, but improbable. This is not meant to bring up the debate between what is better time, jet or prop, just reality.

I know you don't mean to bring up the debate but I have a hard time believing this. I work for a turboprop only regional and it seems almost every Captain I fly with has an interview or is about to move on. They seem to tell me it's more about how well rounded you are, and how well you network then just your hours. We recently had a beech CA with no prior connections who went to a few career fairs and got hired at CAL with less then 1000 turbine PIC/ less then 3000 total time. There's a few others who may have some interviews coming up, I believe all of them are less then 3000 hours total time.

[Capt. Caucasian]

Originally Posted by Snuggle

I know you don't mean to bring up the debate but I have a hard time believing this. I work for a turboprop only regional and it seems almost every Captain I fly with has an interview or is about to move on. They seem to tell me it's more about how well rounded you are, and how well you network then just your hours. We recently had a beech CA with no prior connections who went to a few career fairs and got hired at CAL with less then 1000 turbine PIC/ less then 3000 total time. There's a few others who may have some interviews coming up, I believe all of them are less then 3000 hours total time.

My experience is with Delta. I know we have not hired many if any prop only guys (besides military) in the last year. The average is 6000 hours for civilian. Yeah, CAL does things a little different.

When I started at XJT I fully believed that I would be there for less than three years. After seven years I started to rethink my life plan. So, I went to AirTran and realized that was a big mistake. So, nine years after getting into this biz I finally end up at the Big D. Moral of the story: life never follows your plans so plan accordingly.

[JDMcFly]

We're talking about which #### sandwich you want to eat

Why even bother, then?

If it's so bad...

[jtrain609]

Oh it ain't really THAT bad, but there's no really great option in front of you to make this career happen.

You can go to a regional and possibly get furloughed, but your QOL will probably be alright.

You can go freight and if you go to Airnet or Amflight most likely won't lose your job within the next few years, but you'll pay for it in not being able to sleep very often. The quality of life is horrible, but the quality of time is great.

You could go to the military but then you've gotta kill people and get shot at, which isn't a game I like to play.

You could go corporate, but part 91 flight departments can disapear fast and I don't think I could deal with that kind of work. I have something against being a limo driver.

But I don't see much of another way to get into a legacy cockpit, and as far as I'm concerned none of those options are really that great. But it's what we're faced with, so you make the best of the situation in front of you. And for some people, it really IS that bad and they leave. More power to them, you'd better believe if the bad outweighs the good with my job I'm out!

[kellwolf]

There are tons of guys here at Pinnacle that just came here to get time to move on to a major. I'm willing to bet Lakes has the same kind of people. If not, they've probably moved on to a different regional. Not exactly an upward move and one that lands them on the bottom of another seniority list.

I had the time, hours and connections to toss my resume in at Lakes LONG before I met the mins for other regionals (this was a couple of years ago, so before the ultra-low time minimums were around). Ya know what I did? I instructed for a couple more months. There's no way I could live in DEN on what Lakes pays with a wife and kid. I coulda told myself "Hey. It's just for a couple of years, then I'm off to (insert favored carrier here)." In the meantime, bills pile up and I'm out hunting illegally b/c I can't afford the store brand at Kroger. And if the economy tanks, you're stuck. Like Jason said, go to a regional you wouldn't mind being stuck at for a bit.

For me, Pinnacle sucks sometimes, but we're working on it and I live in base. I'll upgrade to CA in the next couple of months, and it's cheap to live in MEM. That makes Pinnacle bearable for a while. If I were somewhere where I had to commute.....well, that would change the picture a lot.

[averyrm]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

You can go freight and if you go to Airnet or Amflight most likely won't lose your job within the next few years, but you'll pay for it in not being able to sleep very often. The quality of life is horrible, but the quality of time is great.

As an opposing viewpoint - Here at Airnet (on a typical week) I'm home from 6am until 8pm mon-thurs with friday-sunday off. Last year I overnighted somewhere other than my own bed 18 days (including 10 at simuflite). I eat dinner with my wife every night and see her off to work every morning and as a bonus, I get to wear jeans to the office.

The night life is defenately not for everyone, but for me it's great.