But I only have 20 bucks

[Sprint100]

As quoted from AOPA Pilot, January 2008...
"It is profoundly dispiriting that a new Cherokee 180 with IFR steam gaugescost $16,200 in 1967. The essentially identical airframe...at $229,200 increased in price by 1,417 percent in a 40 year span.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, median household income in the U.S. increased from $11,975 to $48,201, or 403 percent during the same time span.
Putting it another way, a median wage earner could buy a PA-28-180 for about 16 months worth of income in 1967. Today, you'll have would have to put 57 months of income to get one."

I hope this recession we're in puts GA airplane prices where they should be.

[esa17]

Prices today are more a function of litigation rather than inflation. All this "recession" will do is lead to decrease in GA production which will....wait for it....drive up prices.

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by esa17

Prices today are more a function of litigation rather than inflation. All this "recession" will do is lead to decrease in GA production which will....wait for it....drive up prices.

..and the demise of GA shall begin LOL

[esa17]

Originally Posted by Sprint100

..and the demise of GA shall begin LOL

Again....just like apple computers was about to die in 1998.

[scramjet]

Eh, I rather not see Joe Schmo be able to afford an airplane just like that, he can't even drive a freaking car right. But I seldom doubt most Schmos have it in them to stick to the difficulty of getting a pilot's license if they don't really want it. So I suppose price matters little in that regards.

[Falcon10]

Originally Posted by scramjet

Eh, I rather not see Joe Schmo be able to afford an airplane just like that, he can't even drive a freaking car right. But I seldom doubt most Schmos have it in them to stick to the difficulty of getting a pilot's license if they don't really want it. So I suppose price matters little in that regards.

Just because you have money doesn't mean you have brains. Ever fly with the weekend warriors at your airport?

[tonyw]

And vice versa.

Just because you have money doesn't mean you have brains. See any random celebutard.

[B767Driver]

Airframes weren't made to last forever. At some point in time the older airframes are going to be junked and there will be no cheap avenue for airplane ownership. That is a serious threat to GA.

I know the LSA models are supposed to be the "cheap" avenue into aviation, but they are 6 figures and that ain't cheap.

And for me personally, the designs of the LSA's do nothing for me. Maybe I'm too "old school" for the newer designs.

[BenWlson]

Originally Posted by Sprint100

..and the demise of GA shall begin LOL

Begin? I think it started a long time ago.

How many small GA airports have you seen close up and disappear over the years?

I remember going to the airport as a kid with my dad and the tie-down ramp was packed with airplanes from one end to the other and you had to join a waiting list to rent a spot. That same ramp today barely has two rows of airplanes and that is it.

Watch the documentary "One Six Right". (It's outstanding in HD!) This film hits on this issue real well.

There is an aviation history book I read (can't remember the name, but I'll try and find it) that discusses how many investors/entrepreneurs after WWII had dreams of providing airplanes to all the pilots returning from the war and envisioned every family owning an airplane. Countless factories were created and produced a huge supply of reasonably priced aircraft. The problem is that they didn't sell well enough. Companies were left with inventories that they couldn't get rid of and were left in bankruptcy. There were lots of buy-offs and mergers and it left the industry with just a few remaining suppliers who could set their prices accordingly to demand to maximize their profits, hence, unaffordable to the majority.

[Berkut]

Looks like kitplanes and car gas are the future of GA.

[BenWlson]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Looks like kitplanes and car gas are the future of GA.

I've flown one of these kit-planes for $9/hour in auto gas!

Building a new one will still cost you $50-75k, though, even if you already have the tools.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by BenWlson

Building a new one will still cost you $50-75k, though, even if you already have the tools.

Compared to the cost of a type-certificated aircraft, $75k is quite a bargain.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Falcon10

Just because you have money doesn't mean you have brains. Ever fly with the weekend warriors at your airport?

Originally Posted by tonyw

And vice versa.

Just because you have money doesn't mean you have brains. See any random celebutard.

"Vice versa"???

[Foxcow]

Is inflation taken into consideration?

What cost $16200 in 1967 would cost $97244.52 in 2006.

Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2006 and 1967,
they would cost you $16200 and $2698.76 respectively.

[KLB]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Looks like kitplanes and car gas are the future of GA.

You can always find an STC to use avgas in most ga planes now! The flight school that I used to instruct at did.

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by Foxcow

Is inflation taken into consideration?

Yep inflation was accounted for.
As far as litigation issues there has to be laws that can protect the manufacturer so those extreme costs aren't passed to the consumer.

[esa17]

Originally Posted by Sprint100

Yep inflation was accounted for.
As far as litigation issues there has to be laws that can protect the manufacturer so those extreme costs aren't passed to the consumer.

See: General Aviation Revitalization Act signed by President Clinton.

[staplegun]

Originally Posted by SteveC

"Vice versa"???

From the OED:

vice versa

/viss vers, visi/

• adverb: with the main items in the preceding statement the other way round.

— ORIGIN Latin, ‘in-turned position’.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by esa17

See: General Aviation Revitalization Act signed by President Clinton.

That certainly helped, but it's going to take a lot more than that to save GA.

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by Berkut

That certainly helped, but it's going to take a lot more than that to save GA.

What else would be needed to bring prices down.

[Berkut]

Less liability for manufacturers.

[BenWlson]

Originally Posted by KLB

You can always find an STC to use avgas in most ga planes now! The flight school that I used to instruct at did.

Every auto gas STC I've ever seen does not permit for the use of any gas containing ethanol. I haven't seen a gas pump in years that didn't say 10% ethanol now. There are a FEW airports that have a pump onsite with ethanol free auto gas, but good luck making a cross-country out of them.

[esa17]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Less liability for manufacturers.

Thats a social problem, not a legislative problem. If people weren't so sue happy then this wouldn't be an issue. Beyond the liability you have the "aviation inflation". Some parts could easily be purchased at Auto zone for less than $200 but to be installed on an airplane it must be an "approved" part which means the price just jumped to $800. Same part, same quality inspections but a different data platen which means foolishly higher cost.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by esa17

Thats a social problem, not a legislative problem.

It's a social problem that could be reduced through legislation, just as it was in 1994. Of course, the ideal thing would be people assuming more personal responsibility and not being so sue-happy.

Same part, same quality inspections but a different data platen which means foolishly higher cost.

Much of that can be traced to liability costs as well. Check out this press release from November 2007: http://www.amtonline.com/article/art...tion=1&id=4679

Supply and demand plays a huge role as well. Marine parts don't have to be approved and inspected, but they are a lot more expensive than automotive.

Originally Posted by BenWilson

I haven't seen a gas pump in years that didn't say 10% ethanol now.

That must be a regional thing, since I can't recall the last time I saw 10% ethanol here. In any case, the technical problems of operating a recip aircraft engine on ethanol aren't insurmountable, not by a long shot. There have been experimentals burning it for years.