Logbook Question

[AviatorDawg]

First off all, I would like to say that this is my first post here and that this site is a great wealth of knowledge! So....Hello! Anyways, on to my question...

I have read about every thread on logbooks in general, but I have a couple of specific questions.

I started flying in 2000 and obtained my Private and Instrument rating. I quit flying (due to funds) in 2002. Since then, I decided to return to flying in hopes of pursuing it as a career. I am about to begin training again and decided to take a look at my logbook. Much to my surprise, I noticed a lot of mistakes. Mostly by my previous CFI's. For example, some logged my time "under the hood" the entire duration of the flight (Total Flight Time=3.0 hours, Limited Viewing Device Time=3.0 hours). Others, logged sim time (ATC-710) as single engine time. All in all, it would take a degree in accounting to make all of the corrections necessary to get my logbook up to snuff.

So, I transferred each line into an electronic logbook book which I have been able to print out. (I have about 150 hours total time). I also purchased a new paper logbook (Jeppesen pro pilot) to replace my old one and use as I continue my training. My question relates to transferring my old logbook entries correctly into my new paper logbook. Would it be ok to do so and simply make a photocopy of my signed endorsements page (you know, the ones for taking the knowledge exams, solos, solo cross countries, practical test) and simply place this in the back of my new paper logbook? All the endorsements I have relate to my PPL and Instrument rating which I currently hold. Do I really need to have a copy of these old endorsements since I already have my PPL and Instrument rating?

I basically want to maintain a clean paper logbook as I pursue my additional rating/certificates. I do not mind transferring the old entries by hand. In fact, I would prefer to have to only bring one paper logbook (and the electronic print out) to any interviews I have in the future. Or, will I have to bring my old paper logbook to interviews to supplement my new one?

Thanks!

Also, from this point forward, NO CFI will touch this logbook except to provide a signature

[Seggy]

You will need to bring ALL logbooks to your interviews.

With that said, don't worry about the endorsements, keep them in the old one. Just transfer the entries you wish over to the new one.

Hope that helps!

Also welcome to JC!

[AviatorDawg]

Thanks for the advice! Looks like that is what I will do.

Will is raise any eyebrows if I bring my old logbook WITHOUT any corrections in it, but the proper line item corrections made in the new logbook when I transferred everything?

Thanks again!

[Seggy]

Yeah make the corrections by a simple line through the entry, make your change then put your initials by it. Then transfer it over to the new one!

[AviatorDawg]

Alright, will do! Thanks, Seggy!

[MFT1Air]

Originally Posted by Seggy

You will need to bring ALL logbooks to your interviews.

With that said, don't worry about the endorsements, keep them in the old one. Just transfer the entries you wish over to the new one.

Hope that helps!

Also welcome to JC!

OK, elaborate. You need to bring ALL your logbooks. Since he's transferred the "old" one to the new, I see no need to bring the corrupted logbook.

He'll need to explain the electronic printout vice not having the old one; I'm believing he doesn't actually "need" to bring all.

[AviatorDawg]

Originally Posted by MFT1Air

OK, elaborate. You need to bring ALL your logbooks. Since he's transferred the "old" one to the new, I see no need to bring the corrupted logbook.

He'll need to explain the electronic printout vice not having the old one; I'm believing he doesn't actually "need" to bring all.

Well, I thought I would need to bring the "corrupted logbook" since it contains the signatures for my old endorsements.

With regard to the electronic version, I would bring it because it would make it easier for an interviewer to see that the totals have been added correctly.

Heck, I will bring all three just in case. I simply want to be organized and not appear as some schmuck who could give a rat's a** about the accuracy and neatness of his logbook. At the same time, I want to ensure anyone reviewing my logbook that it has been rewritten to be more presentable and not for reasons of "doctoring" hours.

Therefore, I guess it WOULD be best to bring all three and present the printout first, and then the "new" paper logbook to supplement the electronic version, and the "old" paper logbook to supplement the new paper logbook...

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by MFT1Air

OK, elaborate. You need to bring ALL your logbooks. Since he's transferred the "old" one to the new, I see no need to bring the corrupted logbook.

He'll need to explain the electronic printout vice not having the old one; I'm believing he doesn't actually "need" to bring all.

Nope he needs to bring them all.

Makes a good point for the interviewer to see how one starts out a logbook and the road to becoming a professional pilot and as his time increases so does the clarity and pride he takes in his logbook. If done properly it can be used as an advantage in the interview if questioned about it.

[Nihon_Ni]

Originally Posted by AviatorDawg

Well, I thought I would need to bring the "corrupted logbook" since it contains the signatures for my old endorsements.

With regard to the electronic version, I would bring it because it would make it easier for an interviewer to see that the totals have been added correctly.

Heck, I will bring all three just in case. I simply want to be organized and not appear as some schmuck who could give a rat's a** about the accuracy and neatness of his logbook. At the same time, I want to ensure anyone reviewing my logbook that it has been rewritten to be more presentable and not for reasons of "doctoring" hours.

Therefore, I guess it WOULD be best to bring all three and present the printout first, and then the "new" paper logbook to supplement the electronic version, and the "old" paper logbook to supplement the new paper logbook...

You will need more than your old endorsements from your first logbook.


(h) Logging training time. (1) A person may log training time when that person receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device.
(2) The training time must be logged in a logbook and must:
(i) Be endorsed in a legible manner by the authorized instructor; and
(ii) Include a description of the training given, the length of the training lesson, and the authorized instructor's signature, certificate number, and certificate expiration date.

If you transfer all the entries over to a new logbook, each flight you flew with a CFI will be incomplete because the CFI must endorse each flight. Although you first logbook may be "currupt" your new logbook could be considered "counterfit" since it lacks all the appropriate endorsements, and that might be worse.

If you read about what airlines expect a pilot's log to look like, you'll see references to statements like "commensurate with certificate level." A student pilot's logbook might look like a first grader filled it in, but a commercial pilot's book should have a quantium improvement. It's okay if an amature's book looks amaturish, but a professional's book should look professional.

FWIW, I recommend pilots make flight entries in ink and do the math in pencil.

[PositionAndHold]

Originally Posted by Nihon_Ni

If you read about what airlines expect a pilot's log to look like, you'll see references to statements like "commensurate with certificate level." A student pilot's logbook might look like a first grader filled it in, but a commercial pilot's book should have a quantium improvement. It's okay if an amature's book looks amaturish, but a professional's book should look professional.

FWIW, I recommend pilots make flight entries in ink and do the math in pencil.

I had a similar problem last May before my interview at XJT. I had transfered all my time into LogBook Pro and printed it out for my interview. I bought the paper and leather binder from them as well (expensive, but looked nice). I had two paper logs, the first looked like a first grader filled it out, the second wasn't much better. Each had various endorsements.

The second log was about half full, so on the page where I stopped logging I simply used the next line to write "Discontinued using paper Logbooks at this point, all logging now done electronically" and signed that line.

For the interview I signed all the printed pages and put them in the leather binder. The binder also had some pockets that the old logs fit in. When they asked for my logs, I just gave them the binder. Never heard a word from them about my logs, or questions about its accuracy. I got the job so they must have been cool with it.

Hope that helps.