ASA's new minimums, and something interesting... - Page 3

mtsu_av8er · January 20th, 2008, 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

It'll never pay enough, you'll never have enough days off and the work rules will never be good enough. If you have any other attitude, in my opinion, you'll just settle.

John, I love you like a brother. However, that's one of the most obnoxious things I've ever heard with regards to the issue.

Of course, it's your opinion, and you're entitled to sound as obnoxious as you like.

mtsu_av8er · January 20th, 2008, 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecweb

I just can't let that one go.
Hey Lloyd how much were you making flying that 210 and Baron?

It was better than 40, and that was assuming that I never flew an hour over schedule.

PCL_128 · January 20th, 2008, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

John, I love you like a brother. However, that's one of the most obnoxious things I've ever heard with regards to the issue.

Come on, he's said a lot more obnoxious things than that.

I actually agree with him on this one. We need to always be striving for better. The fact is, we'd have to triple UPS and FedEx payrates just to get back to inflation-adjusted rates from 30 years ago. We've fallen a long way, and we need to keep striving for improvements constantly. If we settle, then management has beaten us.

jtrain609 · January 20th, 2008, 07:18

My boy PCL here summed it up extremely well.

What I'm saying is that if we're not moving forward, management is pushing us back. And why shouldn't they? It's their job to minimize their cost structure and we are a part of that equation so to offset their natural position we need to be fighting for as high of a pay rate as we can possibly get, because we can see from a historical perspective that said pay rate will go out the window during tough economic times. Or in other words, make as much money as you possibly can when you can. In a true capitalistic system, with the rules that we have in this industry, either we should be getting more or we should be getting less, but our pay rates *should* be fluid all the time.

Now Lloyd I don't know about you, but I like gadgets, and settling for less money buys less gadgets. That, to me, is all I need to think about when I say that, and it gives me reason to work for an even better contract in 2010!

surreal1221 · January 20th, 2008, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCL_128

Come on, he's said a lot more obnoxious things than that.

I actually agree with him on this one. We need to always be striving for better. The fact is, we'd have to triple UPS and FedEx payrates just to get back to inflation-adjusted rates from 30 years ago. We've fallen a long way, and we need to keep striving for improvements constantly. If we settle, then management has beaten us.

Continue to Speakth the turth brosef.

SmoothLanderJ · January 20th, 2008, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

It was better than 40, and that was assuming that I never flew an hour over schedule.

WOW, for flying a 210 and an Baron thats not too bad. Kind of puts things in perspective when considering the pay at the regionals...

mtsu_av8er · January 20th, 2008, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Now Lloyd I don't know about you, but I like gadgets, and settling for less money buys less gadgets. That, to me, is all I need to think about when I say that, and it gives me reason to work for an even better contract in 2010!

John, I agree 100% with the spirit of what you're saying, but not with what you're saying. There's a huge difference.

jtrain609 · January 20th, 2008, 20:54

Then what do you think we need to give up in our work rules or pay?

Nick · January 20th, 2008, 21:15

Show me a thoroughly satisfied man and I will show you a failure.

- Thomas Edison

That does not mean go to work and be miserable all the time, which some people I fly with seem to do. They are pain to fly with.

However, I do also have the mindset that the current situation can be made better.

jtrain609 · January 20th, 2008, 21:49

Really? I think every captain I've flown with has been completely upbeat about everything except for one or two who just didn't seem to care about anything and didn't say a word about anything...ever.

Nick · January 20th, 2008, 21:54

I have only flown with five or less like that. I was just using that as an example of what that quote and that mindset in general does not mean to me.

jtrain609 · January 20th, 2008, 21:57

For sheezy.

RPJ · January 20th, 2008, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by aloft

And believe me, there's no shortage of opportunities to deal with different personalities here...ain't that right, Ryan? lol

Oh man please don't get me started!

aloft · January 21st, 2008, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

My boy PCL here

Alright, just who the hell are you and what have you done with John??

Seggy · January 21st, 2008, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by aloft

Alright, just who the hell are you and what have you done with John??

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general...tml#post780951 (It is funny)

mtsu_av8er · January 21st, 2008, 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Then what do you think we need to give up in our work rules or pay?

Who said anything about giving anything up?

surreal1221 · January 21st, 2008, 07:10

If you're not fighting for more, you're giving up your chance for any future improvement.

The status quo can not be the end all be all.

jtrain609 · January 21st, 2008, 09:12

Exactly.

Things are always fluid Lloyd, if you can't understand that key concept then you'll be used by somebody else for their bidding.

It really comes down to who controls you. Either the company controls you, or you control yourself. It's pretty simple really!

mtsu_av8er · January 21st, 2008, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Exactly.

Things are always fluid Lloyd, if you can't understand that key concept then you'll be used by somebody else for their bidding.

It really comes down to who controls you. Either the company controls you, or you control yourself. It's pretty simple really!

Thanks for that - I see the light now!

From now on, I too will be bitter and unhappy!

I can't believe that for so long, I've been out of control! I will put my happiness in the hands of the other unhappy people, and trust all!

How could I be so foolish and sit around happy all the time . . . HA!

Nick · January 21st, 2008, 14:44

I think the point that is trying to be made is, if a group of employees doesn't constantly make attempts to improve things here and there, then they eventually will see the good things about their job degrade.

For example the SkyWest pay proposal. They are going to get a raise of 1-2% each year. Well, that doesn't even cover inflation. So without making an actual effort to improve things, they actually taking a paycut every twelve months.

SIUAv8r · January 21st, 2008, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

I wish I'd just gone Jet U. Then I could have been a lot farther ahead than I am now.

All I do is short flights, multiple airplane changes during the day, and long airport sits. My schedule sucks, and the pay stinks. If I'd just gone Jet U and skipped the CFI and freight crap, I'd be a Captain now. Making more money, and probably have a lot more seniority.

Life sucks.

I'm tellin' ya Lloyd, come on over to STL...Weekends and 17 days off next month

jtrain609 · January 21st, 2008, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Thanks for that - I see the light now!

From now on, I too will be bitter and unhappy!

I can't believe that for so long, I've been out of control! I will put my happiness in the hands of the other unhappy people, and trust all!

How could I be so foolish and sit around happy all the time . . . HA!

Hey man I couldn't be happier! I'm not positive of it yet, but it looks like next month I'll have the time off to ski with Emily's folks for a few days AND go watch my Pistons kick the crap outta the Jazz!

You seem to think that if I'm ready to throw because I stop getting treated well that I'm angry, which couldn't be further from the truth.

cfii2007 · January 21st, 2008, 16:38

I think both ways are good to accumulate time. Typically CFI's don't fly the aircraft that much, I tend to get more stick time when doing traffic watch.

PCL_128 · January 21st, 2008, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Thanks for that - I see the light now!

From now on, I too will be bitter and unhappy!

I can't believe that for so long, I've been out of control! I will put my happiness in the hands of the other unhappy people, and trust all!

How could I be so foolish and sit around happy all the time . . . HA!

I don't know why you think we're talking about being pissed off and unhappy. I'm very happy where I work now, but I'll continue to work to improve things. That will never stop, no matter how happy I am with my job. The second you stop working for improvements, management is going to push you backwards.

surreal1221 · January 21st, 2008, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Thanks for that - I see the light now!

From now on, I too will be bitter and unhappy!

I can't believe that for so long, I've been out of control! I will put my happiness in the hands of the other unhappy people, and trust all!

How could I be so foolish and sit around happy all the time . . . HA!

Who exactly is being bitter and unhappy?

Really. What is your obsession with this thought that if people are trying to improve their profession, they must be bitter and unhappy?

January 20th, 2008, 07:18	#54
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,100	Re: ASA's new minimums, and something interesting... My boy PCL here summed it up extremely well. What I'm saying is that if we're not moving forward, management is pushing us back. And why shouldn't they? It's their job to minimize their cost structure and we are a part of that equation so to offset their natural position we need to be fighting for as high of a pay rate as we can possibly get, because we can see from a historical perspective that said pay rate will go out the window during tough economic times. Or in other words, make as much money as you possibly can when you can. In a true capitalistic system, with the rules that we have in this industry, either we should be getting more or we should be getting less, but our pay rates should be fluid all the time. Now Lloyd I don't know about you, but I like gadgets, and settling for less money buys less gadgets. That, to me, is all I need to think about when I say that, and it gives me reason to work for an even better contract in 2010! __________________ "I could stand at the end of the line of the general mills cereal plant to make sure that all the lucky charms are up to par for 38k a year." -snickersnwa

January 20th, 2008, 20:54	#58
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,100	Re: ASA's new minimums, and something interesting... Then what do you think we need to give up in our work rules or pay? __________________ "I could stand at the end of the line of the general mills cereal plant to make sure that all the lucky charms are up to par for 38k a year." -snickersnwa

January 20th, 2008, 21:15	#59
Nick Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,183	Re: ASA's new minimums, and something interesting... Show me a thoroughly satisfied man and I will show you a failure. - Thomas Edison That does not mean go to work and be miserable all the time, which some people I fly with seem to do. They are pain to fly with. However, I do also have the mindset that the current situation can be made better.

January 20th, 2008, 21:49	#60
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,100	Re: ASA's new minimums, and something interesting... Really? I think every captain I've flown with has been completely upbeat about everything except for one or two who just didn't seem to care about anything and didn't say a word about anything...ever. __________________ "I could stand at the end of the line of the general mills cereal plant to make sure that all the lucky charms are up to par for 38k a year." -snickersnwa

January 20th, 2008, 21:54	#61
Nick Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,183	Re: ASA's new minimums, and something interesting... I have only flown with five or less like that. I was just using that as an example of what that quote and that mindset in general does not mean to me.

January 20th, 2008, 21:57	#62
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,100	Re: ASA's new minimums, and something interesting... For sheezy. __________________ "I could stand at the end of the line of the general mills cereal plant to make sure that all the lucky charms are up to par for 38k a year." -snickersnwa

January 21st, 2008, 07:10	#67
surreal1221 Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Alpha Tango Lima Posts: 8,655	Re: ASA's new minimums, and something interesting... If you're not fighting for more, you're giving up your chance for any future improvement. The status quo can not be the end all be all. __________________ AGI.MEI.CFI.CFII.FO.CRJ2 \| Josh \|The TRoP \| Ramble On \|ALPA \| Your DD-214 is where?

January 21st, 2008, 09:12	#68
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,100	Re: ASA's new minimums, and something interesting... Exactly. Things are always fluid Lloyd, if you can't understand that key concept then you'll be used by somebody else for their bidding. It really comes down to who controls you. Either the company controls you, or you control yourself. It's pretty simple really! __________________ "I could stand at the end of the line of the general mills cereal plant to make sure that all the lucky charms are up to par for 38k a year." -snickersnwa

January 21st, 2008, 14:44	#70
Nick Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,183	Re: ASA's new minimums, and something interesting... I think the point that is trying to be made is, if a group of employees doesn't constantly make attempts to improve things here and there, then they eventually will see the good things about their job degrade. For example the SkyWest pay proposal. They are going to get a raise of 1-2% each year. Well, that doesn't even cover inflation. So without making an actual effort to improve things, they actually taking a paycut every twelve months.

January 21st, 2008, 16:38	#73
cfii2007 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,175	Re: ASA's new minimums, and something interesting... I think both ways are good to accumulate time. Typically CFI's don't fly the aircraft that much, I tend to get more stick time when doing traffic watch.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode