Things line people do that drives you nuts

[Pietrantonio]

Originally Posted by ghoster

Serious question, how do you , in a nice way, signal the line person that you dont need to be marshalled? I feel sorry sometimes when they are standing there in the cold and you dont really need them.

Most usually just point to their watch and give hand signals as to roughly how many minutes they'll be sitting there.

I've got one for mike...taxiing on the ramp at 3am when I'm in the middle of sleeping...hehe jk. You came into Wilson last week, but we never got the chance to introduce each other.

[Cruise]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

I'm not by any way suggesting that pilots should rush through their checklists, but it would be nice if after shutting the door and starting the engines, the pilots wouldn't sit there for 20 minutes before taxiing out. I had a crew do this last week while spooling up the engines every couple of minutes so that I'd start motioning for them to come forward with the wands and since they wouldn't move, I'd just look like an idiot. I'm gonna start taking down tail numbers.

I've worked both sides of the fence......line in the past....now flying.

Honest, if we're sitting there for an extended period of time before taxiing, THERE IS A REASON. And that reason isn't to watch the poor line guy/ gal stand there freezing. Maybe there's a problem. Perhaps it's tough to get a taxi clearance. In fact, it could be any number of issues that as a line person, you would be completely unaware of.

For example...... In the not too distant past, in SYR, I had a line guy flipping out standing there marshaling me out. Apparently he didn't think we were beginning our taxi fast enough. Well, we had an avionics problem that we were working out. Too bad for him! He is there to guide us, not the other way around! Stand there and DEAL W/ IT. Later in the day, we were back in SYR and I found this ramper to find out why he was flipping out and to explain the reason we delayed our taxi. I told him we had a problem and needed time to work it out....tried to shake his hand...and he blew me off. Needless to say, he will not be getting an explanation next time. Too bad, soo sad, stand there and deal w/ it.

So you see, despite your thoughts that making you stand there to marshal us is a conspiracy. IT'S NOT......get over it and have an extra cup of coffee when you're back inside.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by stoki

How about the stuff pilots do that drives line people nuts? hehe I can think of like 50 things off the top of my head.

I'm sure they can go discuss these over on linecareers.com . . .

[FutrLftSeat82]

Originally Posted by Cruise

I've worked both sides of the fence......line in the past....now flying.

Honest, if we're sitting there for an extended period of time before taxiing, THERE IS A REASON. And that reason isn't to watch the poor line guy/ gal stand there freezing. Maybe there's a problem. Perhaps it's tough to get a taxi clearance. In fact, it could be any number of issues that as a line person, you would be completely unaware of.

For example...... In the not too distant past, in SYR, I had a line guy flipping out standing there marshaling me out. Apparently he didn't think we were beginning our taxi fast enough. Well, we had an avionics problem that we were working out. Too bad for him! He is there to guide us, not the other way around! Stand there and DEAL W/ IT. Later in the day, we were back in SYR and I found this ramper to find out why he was flipping out and to explain the reason we delayed our taxi. I told him we had a problem and needed time to work it out....tried to shake his hand...and he blew me off. Needless to say, he will not be getting an explanation next time. Too bad, soo sad, stand there and deal w/ it.

So you see, despite your thoughts that making you stand there to marshal us is a conspiracy. IT'S NOT......get over it and have an extra cup of coffee when you're back inside.

I'm not sure that anyone said it was a conspiracy...just that sometimes it would be nice to know how long you might be before you're ready for taxi. If you tell me 10 or 15 minutes, I'd go help another plane while waiting for you. But if you don't tell me, I have to assume you're close to liftoff. YES, we are there to assist you...but we are NOT your slave. We're there to make sure that you have no problem clearing your wingtip on other aircraft. I think you may have caught the wrong impression here.

A lot of pilots (mostly the brand new FO's) like to treat line folks in a manner that they are inferior. Congrats on the new first flying position in the corp./charter world...but please do not treat me as a piece of dirt. We really are there to help. You'd be amazed at the service you really do get by just shooting a smile or a 'thank you'. Sometimes it's -5*F (and worse) outside...yes, we're doing our job...nice sometimes to know that it's appreciated. For those of you that have not done the work, you'll never be able to appreciate the other side of the fence...but you can try.

[BCTAv8r]

Originally Posted by FutrLftSeat82

I'm not sure that anyone said it was a conspiracy...just that sometimes it would be nice to know how long you might be before you're ready for taxi. If you tell me 10 or 15 minutes, I'd go help another plane while waiting for you. But if you don't tell me, I have to assume you're close to liftoff. YES, we are there to assist you...but we are NOT your slave. We're there to make sure that you have no problem clearing your wingtip on other aircraft. I think you may have caught the wrong impression here.

Like I said earlier, I'm not trying to rush any crew into leaving the ramp prematurely. However, at least where I work, if you are supposed to depart and you shut your doors and start your engine, no matter who you are, we are going to marshal you out. Just keep that in mind and maybe even do what FutrLftSeat82 mentioned above.

Oh, and here in South FL the problem is that it's actually too hot to stand outside.

[minitour]

Originally Posted by FutrLftSeat82

I'm not sure that anyone said it was a conspiracy...just that sometimes it would be nice to know how long you might be before you're ready for taxi. If you tell me 10 or 15 minutes, I'd go help another plane while waiting for you. But if you don't tell me, I have to assume you're close to liftoff. YES, we are there to assist you...but we are NOT your slave. We're there to make sure that you have no problem clearing your wingtip on other aircraft. I think you may have caught the wrong impression here.

As was pointed out, it can be difficult to say "it's going to be 10 minutes".

If I'm just going out to get a clearance and set the radios, I'll tell the line guys "I'm out of here in about 30 minutes give or take".

When I get out to actually go, if I've got an avionics problem and I signal you 5 minutes and it takes me 10, you're still going to stand there 5 minutes. If I signal you 10 minutes and somehow it starts working in the first 45 seconds that you've been inside getting coffee, now I've got to wait another 8 minutes and I'm ready and need to get going.

To summarize, I think most pilots, if they know it's going to take a few minutes they'll let you know...most of the time it's hard to tell until everything starts (or stops) working.

-mini

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by Pietrantonio

I've got one for mike...taxiing on the ramp at 3am when I'm in the middle of sleeping...hehe jk. You came into Wilson last week, but we never got the chance to introduce each other.

Haha.
We'll shut em down entering the ramp and just coast in.
Won't be there tonight but we will next weekend. Just poke your head in the cockpit when we get there and I can show you the plane if you want.

[JDE]

Wow, this tread turned into line guys complaining about pilots...and quickly too! For the most part, like it has already been mentioned, we do things for a reason. Our CEO's are sitting in the back of the plane, do you think they want to sit there any more than you want to stand outside in the cold? Nope. Do you think we want to sit there on your ramp? Nope. We'd rather be on our way to the restaurant at the next destination, or better yet, home.

Avoinics on jets sometimes take some time before we can even move the airplane. For instance, the standby gyro on the Citation Excel is VERY sensitive to any type of movement. It takes 3 minutes to "spool up" and the airplane CANNOT move AT ALL. People walking up the steps will cause it to reset and the 3 minutes begins all over again (which is why we start ours before the pax get there ).

Also, we don't try to blow away the little airplane that you parked us next to. It takes some power to get an airplane to move when it's at its max gross ramp weight...not to mention we have to try to turn at the same time...and I think you guys who fly know what it takes to turn an airplane that is barely moving .

My biggest pet peeve is with the people who marshall. I'm noticing more and more people moving around the ramp while they're marshalling. I find it a lot easier if you stand still and face the direction where you want the plane.

All in all, you guys do a good job. Its been mentioned several times already, but I worked line when I was flight training and I used to complain about the exact same things. Just remember, pretty much every aspect of aviation is customer service and theres no room for a bad attitude. Keep up the good work!

[surreal1221]

Being rude.

There is one, older gentlemen at our field who is just NEVER friendly. Won't say a peep except "Sign here."

Then off he goes.

On the other hand, all the other line members at my field are great and cordial. One even older gentlemen is nothing but professional and friendly, no matter what the conditions outside are. Always a smile, knows most of the instructors and students by their names. Real stand up guy.

[FutrLftSeat82]

Originally Posted by JDE

Wow, this tread turned into line guys complaining about pilots...and quickly too!

I know that most of the line folks that have posted on here are familiar with both sides of field. (Some of us are pilots, too!) And most of us have given some advice as to how to make things run more smoothly for EVERYONE...not just line folks. Surely you can see that much?! No one is really bashing pilots...or else we'd be dogging ourselves as well. This is simply another topic of discussion on JC's. Could possibly even be one of the more "constructive" topics, compared to some.

It does kind of tickle me, to see that pretty much only the guys who have a problem with someone else all of the time feel the need to defend themselves. 90% of the guys/gals that have responded to this thread have done so in a positive manner. I can see why this thread might have originally been opened, but hopefully it has shed some kind of insight for the pilots who haven't done line work. As mentioned before, a lot of us are there as a way to learn about the industry while working on ratings, etc. And when we run across pilots who act like jackasses (don't pretend like this doesn't happen, ), it can deter some folks because they don't want to be around that, or become that. I've seen it. There should be no reason that we can't all have fun doing what we do. In the end, it's the folks that are having a terrible day... and can still flash a smile, that make this industry worth being in. We're supposed to be professionals, right?

[JDE]

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest. Folks on here complained about things pilots do without having a knowledge as to why those things were being done. I cited a couple of examples as to why those things happen, to try to inform those who were unaware. Why are those people unaware? Because they've never been exposed to it...that's what I was trying to do, give a reason why things happen the way they happen.

[Pietrantonio]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Haha.
We'll shut em down entering the ramp and just coast in.
Won't be there tonight but we will next weekend. Just poke your head in the cockpit when we get there and I can show you the plane if you want.

No need to shut it down... Yeah I wouldn't mind taking a peak. I'd appreciate that. We'll cya next weekend man!

[Foxcow]

edit: I misread the thread title.

I dislike it when when they use the incorrect wand signals and when you try and talk to them (respectfully) they laugh and say that they must do stuff differently at (name of base). IAD and BWI come to mind.

[roundout]

when i pull up to the ramp in a turbocharged piston and let it sit there spooling down, some line guys seem upset that i don't shut the motor down as soon as i hit the spot. don't give me an attitude about sitting there idling. if you don't have time to stand there waiting for me to spool down, don't; either leave and come back, or i'll get my own chocks (then complain to your line manager).

most line guys do a good job. it's a lousy job and some pilots treat you like dirt. if a pilot is taking a long time shutting down or starting up, there's probably a good reason; there aren't many of us who sit there on purpose just to seee linemen freeze, get rained on, bake in the sun, etc..

[Joe]

In addition to keeping smaller aircraft from getting blasted by jets, another reason I park the small guys farther away is for spacing. It's not much of an issue this time of year at my airport (OQU), but when we're busy we need all the space on our ramp we can get. Our ramp is made up of concrete blocks that are 15' wide, and we have a list of how many "blocks" various jets and turboprops take up. If I'm expecting a lot of flights, I'll go out and count empty blocks beforehand so I can plan where everyone is going in advance. A Cessna 172 doesn't take up a lot of room, but if it parks itself in the middle of where I was going to park two jets, I might have to park those jets even farther away than I would have had to put the small guy. Also, it's easier to carry catering, coffee, ice, newspapers, and luggage to a jet that's right in front of the door.

I don't commit any of the other offenses on here that I'm aware of; as a pilot, I try to treat pilots (and passengers) the way I would like to be treated (parking and greeting them immediately to see if they need anything, pulling a warmed up rental right up to the aircraft door, etc.), and eventually when I'm on the other side of the line I'll treat line crews with respect as well.

As far as things that pilots do that drive me nuts, one is what Brian said; coming at me at an angle and then turning towards the flight line at the last second. This can affect spacing too if they end up a block left or right of where I intended. But the biggest thing that grinds my gears (and luckily doesn't happen too often) is when pilots completely ignore my marshalling signals. When Runway 34 is in use, the most logical way to get there is to pull forward and turn left towards the fuel farm/local parking, taxi to the end of the ramp, and turn left to taxiway A, followed by a right turn onto A. However, doing so can result in the local tiedowns getting blasted (along with anyone out there preflighting, or one of my coworkers refueling). Here's a picture in case none of that made sense:



The worst case was Beechjet that ignored my signals to turn right and went left instead, stopped after that second left turn, and gunned the engines to get going again, causing a 182 to wiggle like crazy in its tiedowns (I can only imagine if it wasn't tied down). Trust me, I know what the winds are doing, and I'm turning you right for a reason.

[beechpilot]

Originally Posted by Mark815

lol same here, i work at a Class D so no scheduled carriers coming in, but alot of corporate and other GA traffic.

But just for fun, going the other way, I've had pilots yell at me because i didn't hear their fuel order as they were rushing out the door to eat, and get very upset because their Bonanza wasn't fueled while they were gone. I don't touch an airplane unless i know exactly what it needs.

Yeah, that's how I do it too because if you did fuel it, you'd be yelled at for touching it.