Pinnacle future? if Delta/Northwest merge

[GlenWimpy]

What will happen with Pinnacle if Delta and Northwest merge?

[kellwolf]

Who knows?

Local paper interviewed PT and asked that question. His response was that we'll be fine b/c of our cost structure. Then again, this is the guy that was telling people we didn't have a staffing issue when scheduling was JMing people left and right.

The big question is, if the two merge will MEM hang around as a base. DTW and MSP are pretty much safe, but MEM is in ATL's backyard. I tend to think that keeping MEM open would be a good thing since ATL is so saturated. That and if NWA pulled out, the MEM airport would be a ghost town. Might be able to get some subsidies from the city and county as an incentive to stay.

Either way, if MEM closes, Nessa and I were discussing invoking the company's involuntary re-location clause in the contract.....

[Jason]

PT is an assclown of the highest magnatude.

I just pulled up the website -- 991 days!! Wow...I remember when it said "1".

[GaTechKid]

I'd wager it would be business as usual.

[Velocipede]

It will be if they're the lowest bidder for the branded flying. Ask XJT how that goes.

[fadec]

Who really knows....except that I really cannot see that many more aircraft coming into ATL. We simply don't have the concrete. Plus as the widget continues to add winglets to its aircraft, parking is only going to get worse. Don't get me wrong I like the winglets, but Hartsfield better start pouring more concrete.

Anymore its not uncommon to pull an 67ER or 400 off the gate and park it at South Cargo. They used to never park a/c over there with the exception of the Thanksgiving holidays. ASA has taken over the old Delta North Hangar, east pad is full, and the TACO House (Technical Operations Center) is full. This company has just plain run out of real estate.

[SmitteyB]

Originally Posted by GlenWimpy

What will happen with Pinnacle if Delta and Northwest merge?

Would it stop your anti-Colgan smack?

[GlenWimpy]

Originally Posted by SmitteyB

Would it stop your anti-Colgan smack?

When have I ever said anything anti Colgan?

[SmitteyB]

My apologies- I thought you were someone else. I'm very sorry.

[GlenWimpy]

Originally Posted by SmitteyB

My apologies- I thought you were someone else. I'm very sorry.

Now maybe I might have said something anti Saab 340

just kidding just kidding

[jynxyjoe]

Wow. Can't keep straight who is bashing Colgan.

[av8sean]

The agreements with Delta and Northwest both specify a certain level of service (# of planes) until 2017. Unless one of them goes into Ch11 again, I don't see how these deals could be abrogated in a merger. If capacity needed to be reduced, I'd look towards the airline-owned airlines (Comair/Mesaba).

[jynxyjoe]

Hopefully most of these guys above me will flowthrough to Northwest by the time that happens (i'm a mesaba guy). Who knows, maybe me too and i won't have to worry about it! My luck isn't that good though.

[Cptnchia]

Originally Posted by fadec

Who really knows....except that I really cannot see that many more aircraft coming into ATL. We simply don't have the concrete. Plus as the widget continues to add winglets to its aircraft, parking is only going to get worse. Don't get me wrong I like the winglets, but Hartsfield better start pouring more concrete.

Hmm, let's see... New International Terminal being constructed at the base of the new tower, and the South Gate Complex over at the dirt pile between 09R and 10. Yep, looks like some concrete is gonna get poured.

http://www.atlanta-airport.com/defau...c/masterpg.htm

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by jynxyjoe

Hopefully most of these guys above me will flowthrough to Northwest by the time that happens (i'm a mesaba guy). Who knows, maybe me too and i won't have to worry about it! My luck isn't that good though.

Did they get the flowthough agreement ironed out for you guys yet? I know that's been a carrot being dangled over there for a LOOOONG time.

[sorrygottarunway]

Originally Posted by SmitteyB

Would it stop your anti-Colgan smack?

OH SNAP!

[Jason]

Originally Posted by av8sean

The agreements with Delta and Northwest both specify a certain level of service (# of planes) until 2017. Unless one of them goes into Ch11 again, I don't see how these deals could be abrogated in a merger. If capacity needed to be reduced, I'd look towards the airline-owned airlines (Comair/Mesaba).

But you assume that at least 1 party to the contract wants to keep it in place. I can guarantee that the agreement has several "out" options -- the parties to the aggreement (Delta, Northwest, and Pinnacle) can get together and make whatever changes they want to.

[av8sean]

Originally Posted by Jason

But you assume that at least 1 party to the contract wants to keep it in place. I can guarantee that the agreement has several "out" options -- the parties to the aggreement (Delta, Northwest, and Pinnacle) can get together and make whatever changes they want to.

I don't see any reason Pinnacle would want to exit these contracts... The only thing in the contracts I'm aware of that allows an early reduction in aircraft would be if Pinnacle starts service for another airline (hence the new DL service = CRJ's to Mesaba)... In this case, NW could remove planes at a 1:2 ratio if I'm not mistaken. Still an overall gain for Pinnacle.

[Jason]

The employees at Pinnacle probably don't want to but the employees don't make the decision. If Delta or NWA offers Uncle Phil and company the right incentives to go away, he's gone. I bet Skyway had a contract with Midwest too.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by av8sean

I don't see any reason Pinnacle would want to exit these contracts... The only thing in the contracts I'm aware of that allows an early reduction in aircraft would be if Pinnacle starts service for another airline (hence the new DL service = CRJ's to Mesaba)... In this case, NW could remove planes at a 1:2 ratio if I'm not mistaken. Still an overall gain for Pinnacle.

Actually, our flying for Delta had nothing to do with the CRJs going to Mesaba. Our not having a contract signed by 3/31/07 did that. That was specifically outlined in the ASA and was a negotiating scheme. Personally, I think those CRJs were going to Mesaba from the get go. As long as we're not flying XX amount of airplanes for another carrier, NWA can't reduce us below 124 planes (which is where we are now). I think (I'd have to check) that number is 25 planes for another carrier. We're currently contracted for 16 planes, so NWA can't reduce the number of planes on their side under the current ASA. Now, if Delta exercises the options for the other planes in THEIR contract, then we start getting into the reduction clause. And it is based on a ratio. Even then there's a floor to the number of planes NWA can reduce us to.

[norskman]

Originally Posted by av8sean

The only thing in the contracts I'm aware of that allows an early reduction in aircraft would be if Pinnacle starts service for another airline (hence the new DL service = CRJ's to Mesaba)... In this case, NW could remove planes at a 1:2 ratio if I'm not mistaken. Still an overall gain for Pinnacle.

Incorrect. The contract allowed NWA to transfer 17 -200s to Mesaba if PCL failed to reach a new contract agreement with their pilots by April 1, 2007, which they didn't. The remaining -200s are locked in place -- the only change NWA can make is they can choose to swap them for larger aircraft like -900s. AND the new 10-year agreement allows Pinnacle to service other airlines, hence the DAL deal.

[norskman]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Actually, our flying for Delta had nothing to do with the CRJs going to Mesaba. Our not having a contract signed by 3/31/07 did that. That was specifically outlined in the ASA and was a negotiating scheme. Personally, I think those CRJs were going to Mesaba from the get go. As long as we're not flying XX amount of airplanes for another carrier, NWA can't reduce us below 124 planes (which is where we are now). I think (I'd have to check) that number is 25 planes for another carrier. We're currently contracted for 16 planes, so NWA can't reduce the number of planes on their side under the current ASA. Now, if Delta exercises the options for the other planes in THEIR contract, then we start getting into the reduction clause. And it is based on a ratio. Even then there's a floor to the number of planes NWA can reduce us to.

Kell,

I thought the 17 CRJs that are being transferred are being subtracted from the 124. 2 were never delivered to 9E - 1 went straight to XJ and 1 went to XJ via Compass. And of the other 15, the first was moved from 9E to XJ in November, and I thought that was supposed to continue at 2 per month through mid-year.

[av8sean]

I stand corrected! :-)

[blee256]

Originally Posted by norskman

Kell,

I thought the 17 CRJs that are being transferred are being subtracted from the 124. 2 were never delivered to 9E - 1 went straight to XJ and 1 went to XJ via Compass. And of the other 15, the first was moved from 9E to XJ in November, and I thought that was supposed to continue at 2 per month through mid-year.

Incorrect, 124 is the number we end up with after losing the 15 planes. We were supposed to have 139, subtract the 15, bringing us back down to 124.

[Kingairer]

Incorrect