Landing in a high wing (C172)

[BigGuyFlying]

Hey Guys, I'm not sure if this is the right forum to post this.

I've noticed lately that I'm having a bit of trouble when I flare. I think I flare too early and end up fighting the aircraft going back up and down again. Do you guys have any tips or recommendations? I don't have the problem with the low wings such as the warrior, but high wings I do. Sometimes I'll get lucky and ace the landing, but then most of the time I end up fighting the flare, so to say...

[tprops4me]

I am the same just in reverse. Low wings make me look bad, but I prefer flying them to high wings. My instructor tells me to forget where the wing is . Flare the same. Less flare is needed in the low wing it seems. Time will take care of it. Just make the world stand still in the flare and put it on the deck. I know. Easier said than done. Trust me, I know. One thing I did notice is that a piper does'nt need as much of a pull in the flare because of the stabilator. I had a huge habit of ballooning in the Piper due to that. A little less pull, and all was well. How much time in the high wing?

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by BigGuyFlying

Hey Guys, I'm not sure if this is the right forum to post this.

I've noticed lately that I'm having a bit of trouble when I flare. I think I flare too early and end up fighting the aircraft going back up and down again. Do you guys have any tips or recommendations? I don't have the problem with the low wings such as the warrior, but high wings I do. Sometimes I'll get lucky and ace the landing, but then most of the time I end up fighting the flare, so to say...

Airspeed control is the best way to stop this. Make sure you level off above the runway to bleed some of it off. If you balloon, resist the urge to push the nose down, because it will just cause increase the airspeed again, and cause you to porpoise down the runway.

[I_Money]

Also look at the end of the runway - if you fly a 172 or warrior or whatever that picture will be the same.

[t-cart]

Slow Down.

[Tiger815]

Keep your airspeed where its supposed to be, watch the far end of the runway, raise the nose as the dashed line starts to look like a solid line, until the top of the cowling is just at the distant threshold and hold it and you'll arrive on speed in a nice landing attitude. Watch carefully to see if you start to float/go high, if so, just stop pulling back momentarily -- don't push the nose over. As the plane starts to settle again, smoothly resume pulling back on the yoke. Low wing or high wing doesn't matter, though low wings are more prone to float if you carry too much airspeed.

[Nihon_Ni]

Low wing airplanes have more pronounced ground effect than high wing a/c since the wing is 3-4 times closer to the ground. I think that's the biggest difference between the two types.

I'll offer two tips to you:

1. You are not being tough enough on your own tollerances. As others have said above, airspeed control is king. If you are above the manufacture's recommended approach airspeed you will have more time to spend in the flare. That longer time bring with it more chances to balloon. If you always arrive at the same speed, then the amount of back pressure required to flare and the rate at which you increase that back pressure will be nearly the same from one landing to the next. By arriving at the roundout at the same speed every time, you've eliminated one of the variables that's giving you trouble. (Excess airspeed is probably the biggest trouble maker.)

Cessna gives you a range of airspeeds. For late model a/c they list 60-70 kts as the approach speed with flaps down. I always ask pilots to pick a single airspeed within that range and stick to it. I don't care if they pick 60 or 70 or something in between, just pick one and hold yourself to it. Your goal should be to hold airspeed within one knot. While that's not practical, it is a good goal to work toward. If you are aiming for 65+/-1 kt, you'll certainly be able to hold your speed between 60 and 70 that's recommended by Cessna. If all you are aiming for is 60-70, then how well do you think you can hold your airspeed? The tolerance you allow yourself will determine how precisely you will be able to fly.

2. Once you start the roundout, try not to land. Your goal should be to level the airplane 1-2 feet above the runway, over the centerline and hold it off as long as possible. The key part there is "level". You should stay within 1-2 feet of the surface as the angle of attack increases until the point just before you reach the critical angle of attack (stall) and the airplane lands.

Try working on these two items. Don't let the airplane touch the ground until the stall warning horn is on. Go back to the Private PTS (below) and evaluate yourself against the standard. See if you can spot your trouble areas. Then spend some time working on them.

When I was a new private pilot, I realized that my landing proficiency was the first skill to atrophy. I decided that on every flight I was going to make one touch & go and one full stop. That extra practice helped me keep my landings sharp.

B. TASK: NORMAL AND CROSSWIND APPROACH AND
LANDING (ASEL and ASES)

NOTE:

If a crosswind condition does not exist, the applicant's knowledge of

crosswind elements shall be evaluated through oral testing.
REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-3; POH/AFM.
Objective.

To determine that the applicant:

1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to a normal and
crosswind approach and landing.
2. Adequately surveys the intended landing area (ASES).
3. Considers the wind conditions, landing surface, obstructions, and
selects a suitable touchdown point.
4. Establishes the recommended approach and landing configuration
and airspeed, and adjusts pitch attitude and power as required.
5. Maintains a stabilized approach and recommended airspeed, or in
its absence, not more than 1.3 VSO, +10/-5 knots, with wind gust
factor applied.
6. Makes smooth, timely, and correct control application during the
roundout and touchdown.
7. Contacts the water at the proper pitch attitude (ASES).
8. Touches down smoothly at approximate stalling speed (ASEL).
9. Touches down at or within 400 feet (120 meters) beyond a specified
point, with no drift, and with the airplane's longitudinal axis aligned
with and over the runway center/landing path.
10. Maintains crosswind correction and directional control throughout
the approach and landing sequence.
11. Completes the appropriate checklist.

[PatrickCPS]

Excellent advice in the last post. The biggest thing that I think helps make for consistently good landings is a consistent approach. Airspeed is the biggest variable, and the closer you can keep this to the speed recommended by the book or the speed at which you know you can produce the desired effect is where you want to aim for. Once you can control the airspeed at which you begin your flare, everything else should fall into place.

[phoenix 23684]

Get a Tailwheel endorsement. Anyone that has one can tell you that your landings will improve on any other airframe afterwards.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by phoenix 23684

Get a Tailwheel endorsement.

What he said. Go spend a few hours in a short-coupled taildragger and you'll find everything else easy by comparison.

[BenWlson]

Learning to land a tailwheel aircraft really makes you value a stabilized approach.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by I_Money

Also look at the end of the runway - if you fly a 172 or warrior or whatever that picture will be the same.

I don't think it will. A Cessna single is more nose high in the touchdown flare than a Piper single and covers more of the runway in front.. As far as I've been able to tell, that seems to be the No.1 "obstacle" for the new transitioning pilot to deal with, not just with Cessnas and Pipers.

[tonyw]

The hardest thing for me was to overagressively flare. I'm aggressive by nature so it wasn't a surprise that I was over controlling the airplane.

I learned very quickly how to read the potential balloon and stop it.

Just apply a little less muscle when you flare.

[BigGuyFlying]

Thanks a bunch for the help guys... Used it today while I flew in the pattern... Feels good to be able to land a high wing smoothly again!

[BajtheJino]

Use three fingers and remember to use the trim as you flare.

[Hacker15e]

How about "practice makes perfect"...

Get out there and practice. Try the techniques people here have given you, but don't be afraid to suck at it. Just practice and eventually it will come to you.

No amount of instructional technique is a replacement for outright experience when it comes to something like this.

[BigGuyFlying]

Originally Posted by Hacker15e

How about "practice makes perfect"...

Get out there and practice. Try the techniques people here have given you, but don't be afraid to suck at it. Just practice and eventually it will come to you.

No amount of instructional technique is a replacement for outright experience when it comes to something like this.

That's exactly what I did yesterday and was going to do today, just pattern work. I've been doing so many cross countries lately that my patten work has gotten sloppy. But unfortunately today the weather today isn't the great:

KPIE 231453Z 00000KT 7SM FEW004 22/20 A3010 RMK AO2 SLP192 T02170200 53014

KPIE 231402Z 231412 VRB03KT 2SM BR SCT002 SCT025 BKN100 TEMPO 1416 1/2SM FG OVC002

[ALSF2]

Perfect practice makes perfect. Like many others have said, slow down. I don't know about using trim in the flare, I personally don't.