Delta/NWA/United merger

[JEP]

Interesting:

Report: Delta talking with NWA, United

Last update: January 15, 2008 - 12:37 AM

Delta Air Lines Inc. has opened merger negotiations with both United and Northwest Airlines and hopes to negotiate a merger agreement with one of them over the next two weeks, the Wall Street Journal reported today, citing people familiary with the situation.

Complete Article

So it looks Anderson will be playing each airline against each other.

[kellwolf]

Well, he already knows the system at NWA. He'll probably have Krispy Kreme donuts at the meeting to complete the circle.....

[Velocipede]

UAL/DAL would have serious DoJ problems. NWA/DAL is a possibility. However, when the merger talk starts, its the ones you never hear about in advance that actually happen.

This publicity sounds like a smoke screen to me.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

UAL/DAL would have serious DoJ problems. NWA/DAL is a possibility. However, when the merger talk starts, its the ones you never hear about in advance that actually happen.

This publicity sounds like a smoke screen to me.

Still betting you're gonna be flying widgets, huh?

[Velocipede]

All I can tell you is that every other merger I've ever heard of came out of the blue one morning. NONE had a month long publicity buildup.

[WestIndian425]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

All I can tell you is that every other merger I've ever heard of came out of the blue one morning. NONE had a month long publicity buildup.

He's right there. That AWA/USAirways came out of nowhere. Another one is the "pseudo" NWA/Midwest while everyone was focused on Air Tran/Midwest

[WalterSobchak]

Talk around NWA corporate is about the merger not a merger. NWA wants to be bought. From a fleet stand point the DAL/UAL makes more sense than NWA. I hope the mergers don't happen and we get some for of regulation back, but it won't happen.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

All I can tell you is that every other merger I've ever heard of came out of the blue one morning. NONE had a month long publicity buildup.

Not all the time. I actually heard rumblings of the Colgan buy-out about a week before it actually happened. I got a good chuckle out of it.....until it happened.

And yeah. Steenland has more or less said NWA wants to be bought, not merged. Not sure what that means for us since they "merger" clause in our ASA with NWA only had stipluations for when NWA was in bankruptcy (they could take the 17 they were giving us, which are now at Mesaba anyway, plus another 24 but that was the max), but now that NWA is out of the sham bankruptcy there's not really any kind of contract language.

[wheelsup]

Who remembers the brochure NWA corporate put out encouraging employees to dumpster dive in order to save money after their pay cuts? What an absolutely %$#@box of a company. I hope they get bought out too, how can someone work under management that does something like that?

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by WalterSobchak

Talk around NWA corporate is about the merger not a merger. NWA wants to be bought. From a fleet stand point the DAL/UAL makes more sense than NWA.

Actually, neither make sense from a fleet standpoint. All those Airbii on both properties have zero commonality with Delta. I wish I could find it, but I read a report in the last couple days that indicates fleet commonality with NWA was about 20%. And it was only marginally higher with UAL.

[SeanD]

I know someone flying for NWA who has 9 years seniority. If a merger with Delta happens. Does he lose the seniority if he were to take an FO slot on the ER or 76/75 domestic at Delta? Im curious on how a merger would effect the NWA pilot group minus the obvious elimination of current NWA management which of course would be a benefit for them.

[Velocipede]

It all depends on how the merger committees negotiate the merged seniority list. Since both companies have widebodies and international flying, a DoH merger would make sense. Essentially take all the names, and sort them by Date of Hire.

The problem is when pilot egos get involved. Let's say Delta buys NWA outright. Then the Delta guys would say, "We acquired you, so you go to the bottom of the list." That's what CAL did to the People Express guys. They gave the Capts. they needed to fly the PE jets DoH and stapled all the rest of the pilots to the bottom of the list.

Then you could see a NWA/Republic deal. The largest plane Republic flew was the 757. So, the NWA pukes put "fences" around all their widebody flying, saying Republic pilots had no career expectation of flying widebodies, so they were proscribed from ever holding a "NWA" widebody seat.

Personally, it just goes to show the current ALPA merger/frag policy is a joke. Need evidence? Just wander over to the ALPA National webboard and watch the monkeys involved in the AWA/AAA merger sling stool at each other.

My opinion? The ALPA merger/frag policy should have two lines:

1. No bump and flush.
2. Merged seniority list sorted by ALPA number.

Period, end of story.

That's how real Unions work. Of course, we're an "Association" so that may be too much to hope for.

[Minnesota_Flyer]

"bump and flush"?

[Velocipede]

"No bump and flush" means that you remain in your premerger crew position until YOU elect to bid out of it.

Every subsequent opening to the merger would be open for system wide bid, so let's say a NWA pilot who lives in Atlanta bids and is awarded an ATL position. His position would become vacant so a DAL pilot who lives in MSP could be awarded MSP. But nobody would be forced out of their current position unless they elected to move.

[Chris_Ford]

UAL will not merge with DAL. I don't know how many times I have to say this. My source is 100% unequivocally correct on this.

But let's start 5 more threads about it, because Reuters has something to say!!!

Idiots.

[SteveC]

Who is your source Chris?

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Who is your source Chris?

You know that you can never reveal a good source. People have gone to jail for it

Let's just say that he is *high* up on the list. Not involved at all on the flight ops side of things, just the business side. Works in the 77 Wacker office.

[Screaming_Emu]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

UAL will not merge with DAL. I don't know how many times I have to say this. My source is 100% unequivocally correct on this.

But let's start 5 more threads about it, because Reuters has something to say!!!

Idiots.

Oh damn, I thought they were, but since YOU said they aren't, now I believe it!.....

[WalterSobchak]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Actually, neither make sense from a fleet standpoint. All those Airbii on both properties have zero commonality with Delta. I wish I could find it, but I read a report in the last couple days that indicates fleet commonality with NWA was about 20%. And it was only marginally higher with UAL.

NWA ------------------UAL------------------------ DAL
747-400: 16-------- 747-400: 30---------------- 777: 8
747-200: 2 ---------777-200: 52 ----------767-400ER: 21
747-200F: 13 ------767-300: 35---------- 767-300ER: 60
A330-300: 21 ----------757: 97------------- 767-300: 20
A330-200: 11-- 737-300/-500: 94------------- 757: 136
757-300: 16 -----------A320: 97--------------- MD90: 16
757-200: 56 ------------A319: 55-------------- MD88: 120
A320: 75 -------------737-800: 71
A319: 66
DC9: 115
72/391 18% ---------278/460 60%

I hardly call UAL fleet marginally more compatible.

[Doug Taylor]

Betchya a dollar it's Alaska.

It's the standard "David Blaine" thing.

"Look into my eyes... DON'T LOOK AT MY HANDS! Pan the camera closer..."

[WalterSobchak]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Betchya a dollar it's Alaska.

It's the standard "David Blaine" thing.

"Look into my eyes... DON'T LOOK AT MY HANDS! Pan the camera closer..."

No offense to any one, but I hope you are right.

[flyover]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

It all depends on how the merger committees negotiate the merged seniority list. Since both companies have widebodies and international flying, a DoH merger would make sense. Essentially take all the names, and sort them by Date of Hire.

How does that make sense? It never has in any other seniority list merger.

The problem is when pilot egos get involved. Let's say Delta buys NWA outright. Then the Delta guys would say, "We acquired you, so you go to the bottom of the list."

How do you know they would say that? They never have in any other acquisition Delta made.

That's what CAL did to the People Express guys. They gave the Capts. they needed to fly the PE jets DoH and stapled all the rest of the pilots to the bottom of the list.

That's what CAL management did to the People Express guys. And because that was the case it was overturned in court, something that never happens to lists put through the ALPA process.

Then you could see a NWA/Republic deal. The largest plane Republic flew was the 757. So, the NWA pukes put "fences" around all their widebody flying, saying Republic pilots had no career expectation of flying widebodies, so they were proscribed from ever holding a "NWA" widebody seat.

Agree that the attitude of the NWA pilots was ridiculous in that list merger. And the payoff was years of acrimony still going on today.

Personally, it just goes to show the current ALPA merger/frag policy is a joke. Need evidence?

Just try to find a case of an ALPA list merger being overturned by a court. Never happens. The judge looks at the arguments then looks at the process and says something like, "There doesn't seem to be a perfectly fair way to merge a list, but this was a good-faith effort so I'm letting it stand."

My opinion? The ALPA merger/frag policy should have two lines:

2. Merged seniority list sorted by ALPA number.

I think this method could actually result in gunplay in the pilot's lounge or the cockpit.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

You know that you can never reveal a good source. People have gone to jail for it

No, Chris. You go to jail for NOT revealing sources.

[Velocipede]

Sorry, Walt, you're right. I just forgot the numbers that were cited. But, I also think Chris is right. It won't be UAL for DoJ reasons.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Sorry, Walt, you're right. I just forgot the numbers that were cited. But, I also think Chris is right. It won't be UAL for DoJ reasons.

Unless they do some slicing and dicing of the companies to satisfy DOJ. Probably the most scary option and one that employee groups would shut it down over.

I think due to recent history...management knows they need labor buy in for it to work.