Don't need a degree eh?

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by nbv4

What bothers most people when it comes to college degrees is the fact that ultimately it adds very little to your piloting skill set, but with a huge cost.

No, but it does add quite a bit to your overall value to any employer.

Your average college grad makes over a million bucks more than your average high school grad over his career. If you say you're going to have a 40 year career, that's $25K a year.

That says something about the value of a degree to ANY employer.

[Hootie]

Oh God. You and Chris Ford should play swords sometime and see who's is bigger.

Seriously do you have ATP mins? How about 1000tt? Did you ever even fly a single package for one second by yourself?

I'm sure your a cool dude to have a beer with and all but your posts come across as narcissistic and slightly odd.

[SmoothLanderJ]

Originally Posted by Hootie

Oh God. You and Chris Ford should play swords sometime and see who's is bigger.

Seriously do you have ATP mins? How about 1000tt? Did you ever even fly a single package for one second by yourself?

I'm sure your a cool dude to have a beer with and all but your posts come across as narcissistic and slightly odd.

Not trying to add fuel to the fire, but I agree. There is some great advice in the original post, but the arrogance could have been toned down by about 1000.......

[FlyChicaga]

Ahh, college. Four awesome years.

Received some great flight instruction in well-maintained airplanes. Made some great friends. Attended [most] classes. Learned a lot, forgot a lot... Both about life and stuff in books. Made some mistakes. Caused some trouble. Drank a lot of beer. Talked to a lot of women, but dated just a few. Had a few road trips, and some fun over Spring Break. Learned how to manage my time, and learned how to waste time.

All in all, I am very happy I went to college. It is what worked for me, and did wonders for helping me mature. If you compare my posts when I first joined JetCareers to the day I graduated, you'll notice a gradual maturation process that I attribute to my time in school. I certainly would not be where I am today without it.

College isn't for everyone. Even so, I do recommend that everyone get a degree, just to have it. It opens doors... You might not need them opened, but it is comfortable to know that option is there. Why put limitations on where you can go?

[zmiller4]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

I yi yi

It's not difficult people.

The legacies and majors will always require a degree. . .if your goal is to end up there, set yourself up for success and have a damn 4 year degree. It doesn't have to be this difficult.

I think you missed the point, which was to allow us to separate the worthy people from the troglodytes by seeing who has a degree and who doesn't.

That and to post all the badass crap we've done.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

...or as self-absorbed as he'd like to mislead you to think he is!

Sorry to put your secret out on front street John!

What can I say, I write extremely strongly. WTF do you expect after getting a degree in arguging? I make a bit more sense once you can understand the tone behind my posts. Until you actually meet somebody on these forums it's EXTREMELY hard to understand the tone behind their posts. I thought fly22 was the biggest condescending smart ass I had ever read, and then I met him and realized he's one of the biggest smart asses I've ever met and I can't get enough of the guy!

So to all the haters, hows about you actually how up to a meet and greet before attacking somebody. I'm even willing to give Velo the benefit of the doubt that he can't communicate online very well.

[Pietrantonio]

You can't go wrong with getting a degree. No matter if it takes you 4 years or 6 years just to get that degree, it's important to think of what you can do with it, and what you can get out of it. Sure, college isn't exactly cheap, but it's an investment, and it's an asset that is definatley going to help you in the long run. In essence, It practically pays for itself over time. As FlyChicaga said...why put limitations on yourself. You'll be glad you got it. The way things are going in the economy, you're going to need a degree just to survive out in the real world. So in all, when you have doubts about getting that degree because you are thinking about todays objectives, think about tomorrow, and the future just a bit, and you'll appreciate why you are in college getting that degree. I didn't hit on all the benefits of obtaining a degree, but that's just my $0.02.

[moxiepilot]

Originally Posted by tonyw

No, but it does add quite a bit to your overall value to any employer.

Your average college grad makes over a million bucks more than your average high school grad over his career. If you say you're going to have a 40 year career, that's $25K a year.

That says something about the value of a degree to ANY employer.

And that's based on 1980's number crunchers who have GenX's mentality of going to college, specializing in Lockheed's Management program and working at Lockheed for the next 40 years.

It just doesn't happen any more.

It's kinda' like a bridge program - a lot of hype, but when you look back you realize you learned a little and spent a bunch of money for that

[SteveC]

Pulled out the QRH/systems posts and started a new thread here (QRH, systems knowledge (from college thread)) .

[WAFlyBoy]

Nice post, John. And enjoyable read that expresses sentiments I agree with.

[taseal]

nice post, but isn't this what life is all about? especially when it comes to jobs?

to compete with the other person so they pick you instead of him?

[Doug Taylor]

It's the American way. Competition! We weren't a great nation built on scoreless soccer, "everyone wins!" and hugs.

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by moxiepilot

And that's based on 1980's number crunchers who have GenX's mentality of going to college, specializing in Lockheed's Management program and working at Lockheed for the next 40 years.

It just doesn't happen any more.

It's kinda' like a bridge program - a lot of hype, but when you look back you realize you learned a little and spent a bunch of money for that

Uh...I remember boomers saying things like Gen X'ers like myself are disloyal and they aren't willing to stick it out with their employers. And you know what, they're right! If you don't treat us right and compensate us well, we're out of there!

Also, here is a study from 2003 which shows the benefit of a college degree. I'd say a 60 percent gap in the median income of a college grad versus a high school grad is the real deal.

http://tsp.convio.net/site/PageServe...education_pays

Among full-time year-round workers between the ages of 25 and 34, white, black and Hispanic four-year college graduates earn an average of about 60% more than high school graduates in the same demographic groups.

Want proof? In this industry?

What does a regional captain top out at? What does a legacy carrier captain top out at?

What do legacy carriers want? A college degree.

Now, I'm not saying this to be a prick, I'm saying it because there is real value to a college education that can be shown in dollars and cents. The non-monetary value of one is much harder to demonstrate but it's there, too.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by zmiller4

I think you missed the point, which was to allow us to separate the worthy people from the troglodytes by seeing who has a degree and who doesn't.

That and to post all the badass crap we've done.

Ah hell. . .you're right.

Sorry guys, let the fun continue. Who's next? Am I up yet? I'm ready.

Originally Posted by SteveC

If you're tired of a topic feel free to just skip those threads.

What follows is a generic mod comment:

Just like moving a thread that has no comedic value what-so-ever to the humor section?

Nevertheless, I enjoy the entertainment value that these consistent threads, about the same exact subjects provide. It shows the demographics of JC easier than a poll of if you have a 4 year degree or not. All the 4 year degree kiddies claim they are the greatest, and all the non-4 year kiddies claim that they are the greatest.

The usual pilot vs pilot rivalry continues.

I'm better than you - NO! I'm better than YOU! - NO!! I'M BETTER THAN YOU!!!!11

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

What follows is a generic mod comment:

Just like moving a thread that has no comedic value what-so-ever to the humor section?

Not following.

[MFT1Air]

Originally Posted by germb747

You're right--in general. This is a competitive industry where the "bare minimum" isn't going to get you very far.

Ah, great minds (JTrain and you) think alike.

Originally Posted by germb747

Without trying to sound too much like a cliche, the only constant in this market place is change. For kids coming into the industry right now, timing is definitely on their side--not something I'd hold against them.

Kids? Kinda patronizing/condescending somewhat?

Originally Posted by germb747

When I graduated from college in December 2002 and started looking for a full-time flight instructing job in early 2003, . . .

Let's see - Having left high school in 1971, I'm STILL not be inclined to call you a "kid." Where's your line drawn that makes them adults?

Your points made were quite substantive supported by your personal experiences. My opinion? I agree with you wholeheartedly.

. . .as I do agree with JTrain's perspective. . . without the perception of his being self-absorbed.

Gosh, people take "editorials" much too seriously. Make sure you vote!!!

[sixoneseven]

The bottom line in all walks of life.

It's all about who you know.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Nevertheless, I enjoy the entertainment value that these consistent threads, about the same exact subjects provide. It shows the demographics of JC easier than a poll of if you have a 4 year degree or not.

Demographics???

From the front page of this website:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

There are plenty of commercial sources of information about careers in aviation, however I saw a need for a source of information made by professional pilots for future pilots and others that are interested in a "behind the scenes" perspective.

It appears to me that the target demographics, and the reason for this website in the first place, is noobie pilots and wanna-be pilots, along with professional pilots that are here to help the noobies along.

In my opinion (SteveC pilot, not SteveC moderator talking) the expressed purpose of this site is to allow the never-ending supply of up-and-coming pilots to ask the same questions (college, headset, PFJ/PFT, regional/freight, academy/FBO, etc. ad-nauseum) over and over again, and get civil and well-reasoned answers from the people that have gone before them. By definition this means that there will be a continuous supply of people asking the same questions that have been asked before, and will be asked again.

"Entertainment value..."???

If that's why you're here....go away.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by MFT1Air

Ah, great minds (JTrain and you) think alike.



Kids? Kinda patronizing/condescending somewhat?



Let's see - Having left high school in 1971, I'm STILL not be inclined to call you a "kid." Where's your line drawn that makes them adults?

Your points made were quite substantive supported by your personal experiences. My opinion? I agree with you wholeheartedly.

. . .as I do agree with JTrain's perspective. . . without the perception of his being self-absorbed.

Gosh, people take "editorials" much too seriously. Make sure you vote!!!

Don't get him wrong MFT, I think it's just a phrase. I constantly call people boss, hoss, bro, bossman, hossman, dude, hey you and kid on a fairly regular basis without putting too much thought into it. I've been known to call 50 year olds kids on accident

[t-cart]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Ah hell. . .you're right.

Sorry guys, let the fun continue. Who's next? Am I up yet? I'm ready.



What follows is a generic mod comment:

Just like moving a thread that has no comedic value what-so-ever to the humor section?

Nevertheless, I enjoy the entertainment value that these consistent threads, about the same exact subjects provide. It shows the demographics of JC easier than a poll of if you have a 4 year degree or not. All the 4 year degree kiddies claim they are the greatest, and all the non-4 year kiddies claim that they are the greatest.

The usual pilot vs pilot rivalry continues.

I'm better than you - NO! I'm better than YOU! - NO!! I'M BETTER THAN YOU!!!!11

Just so you know,I dont have a 4 year degree or a two year degree or any degree.I dont claim to be the greatest.I am no better than anyone on here ,and i sure aint no kiddie.And i will say again.If you plan on going to a major airline,Get the degree. .....T.C.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by sixoneseven

The bottom line in all walks of life.

It's all about who you know.

Not necessarily true in this business. I papered the world with resumes. I got hired by the airline that I didn't know a soul at. All the other ones where I had personal recommendations didn't give me the time of day.

[Sprint100]

I can truly give a rats behind if someone were to have a degree or not. Question I have is can you pull your own weight? Luckily every job I've had was full of people that could handle theirs. I've seen people with degrees have the deer in the headlights look just as well those without degrees. I'm just tired of people acting like a degree is the holy grail. My wife got a degree and I didn't we are 1 year apart in age and she has never come close to the amount of money I make. In fact, I made more when we got married than she makes right now.
Percentage wise I would have to break it down like this, 60% who you know and 40% of what you can do.
I'm not all saying that a degree is a waste but it doesn't guarantee success nor is that piece of paper big enough to stop the rubber from meeting the road.

[sixoneseven]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Not necessarily true in this business. I papered the world with resumes. I got hired by the airline that I didn't know a soul at. All the other ones where I had personal recommendations didn't give me the time of day.

You didn't know the right people, simple as that.

[Alchemy]

Yep, you need to get the degree...however you go about it is fine, as long as you get one.

Personally, I don't have one, and I'm often embarassed by that fact. I had a pretty bad experience in college, I went for 3 years, scraped by with my grades, and struggled to find something I enjoyed studying. I think it is important to go into college with something specific in mind that you would like to accomplish academically. I wandered around aimlessly from major to major. Also, like most, I was still a teenager. I lacked the maturity and self discpiline (and perhaps the intellectual capacity) to get the job done in most of the classes I attempted. Those instructors/professors were there to challenge you, not help you, and I wasn't up to the challenge. I definitely bit off more than I could chew with the academic "prestige" of the institution I chose to attend. That university chewed me up and spit me out, did nothing for my social life, and was overall a pretty miserable experience. Ultimately I used aviation as an outlet for my frustration at school. I flew every chance I got and worked at the FBO after school. I eventually earned my CFI and instruted summers and part time during my jr. year. I got a job offer from a regional at age 21 just prior to my senior year and I took it, abandoning my studies.

I'm not posting this story to garner sympathy, and I acknowledge that college is not 100% fun for anybody. There is a lot of hard work and struggling involved for just about anyone who earns a serious degree from an institution with a good reputation. Some people deal with those challenges better than others. I failed miserably, and it's one of the big regrets I have in my life.

I'm still taking classes and trying wrap up a bachelor's degree, but progress is slow and it's not easy to take classes and hold down a full time job, which is why I have a lot of respect for Kellwolf for pulling that off (one of the only people I know that has done it).

[t-cart]

Originally Posted by Alchemy

Yep, you need to get the degree...however you go about it is fine, as long as you get one.

Personally, I don't have one, and I'm often embarassed by that fact. I had a pretty bad experience in college, I went for 3 years, scraped by with my grades, and struggled to find something I enjoyed studying. I think it is important to go into college with something specific in mind that you would like to accomplish academically. I wandered around aimlessly from major to major. Also, like most, I was still a teenager. I lacked the maturity and self discpiline (and perhaps the intellectual capacity) to get the job done in most of the classes I attempted. Those instructors/professors were there to challenge you, not help you, and I wasn't up to the challenge. I definitely bit off more than I could chew with the academic "prestige" of the institution I chose to attend. That university chewed me up and spit me out, did nothing for my social life, and was overall a pretty miserable experience. Ultimately I used aviation as an outlet for my frustration at school. I flew every chance I got and worked at the FBO after school. I eventually earned my CFI and instruted summers and part time during my jr. year. I got a job offer from a regional at age 21 just prior to my senior year and I took it, abandoning my studies.

I'm not posting this story to garner sympathy, and I acknowledge that college is not 100% fun for anybody. There is a lot of hard work and struggling involved for just about anyone who earns a serious degree from an institution with a good reputation. Some people deal with those challenges better than others. I failed miserably, and it's one of the big regrets I have in my life.

I'm still taking classes and trying wrap up a bachelor's degree, but progress is slow and it's not easy to take classes and hold down a full time job, which is why I have a lot of respect for Kellwolf for pulling that off (one of the only people I know that has done it).

Good luck to you Alchemy,Keep plugging at it.,,,T.C.