Advice: Small Loan?

[LoadMasterC141]

Ok I know...here I am, the converted guy who no longer believes in large loans. However, I read this in the "$45k Hurts" post and it got me thinking.....Is a little loan OK? I mean $10k is like a used car.

Murghodoughnut said:

Here's something to chew on - I've been anti-big loans since I've been on this board and have told people to work and fly like I've done. I've come to a point now (120 hours, soon to have IR and multi) where I'm considering taking out $10k or less to just finish up and fly for a living. Basically I'm sick of my current job - it's a good job, but being chained to a desk 9-5pm with absolutely no flex time whatsoever is seriously putting me into a funk. It's taking a toll on my family and my friends, and has seriously made me into an all around f@$%tard.

I'm in an ownership group and though our rates just went up ($62.50 wet now for a 172), it's still very reasonable for me to pick up my remaining flight time, 50 hours of multi, and a CMEL for under $10k. I'm considering just taking the plunge and doing it. Yeah, I hate to have even a debt like that, but what's the price of being miserable?

Well dude that is exactly where I am actually. EXACTLY; Sitting with 200hrs, IFR Check in a week. I am going to fly my tail off to get 250 in the next month and have my CSEL done. From that point, I am a bit stuck on my decision for the next move.
I either:
A) Quit my current job and buy 100 multi and then get a job with a regional taking low timers.
q Gonna cost around $15-20k to get that time.
q Will need a loan.
q Choice of regional will be very limited.
q Time to airline possibility: 3-4 Months

B) Quit my current job, goto an accelerated CFI initial program. Goto ATP and get CMEL, CFII, and MEI. Work for them until meeting minimums of desired airline(s)
q Gonna need a loan for around $10k
q Get to spend time in an academy environment to be able to compare to my FBO time.
q More multi time than I am going to get most anywhere else (Unless I get the deal Marcus did)
q Time to airline possibility: 4-8 Months
q Get a free RJ program. Yeah I don’t care what any of you say….It sounds like fun to me, for whatever it is worth!

C) Continue widdling away at my ratings here at the FBO. Will need to go elsewhere to get my Multi stuff, but plenty of options. CFI here when I get done and keep my current job ($75-80K/yr).
q Miserable wretch at my current job. Cubicle life is horrible. I am mean to loved ones. (No excuse I know)
q I do like my flight school, but it is a little FBO and who knows where it will be tomorrow.
q I have made relationships with pilots and chief pilots of corporate jet gigs on the field. The business owner in the hangar next door has promised me PIC time in his 340. A safety pilot friend is promising to buy a 310 this summer and allow me in for insurance payments and a bit extra fuel only. It is a nice little airport and community. This is all just smoke for all I know though.
q Time to airline possibility: 12 months+


I am leaning in towards option B. Any advice?

[N826AW]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

A) q Time to airline possibility: 3-4 Months

B)q Time to airline possibility: 4-8 Months


C) CFI here when I get done and keep my current job ($75-80K/yr).
Time to airline possibility: 12 months+

If you're able to work on your ratings while making $80k a year, then I would do that. I took out the loan and went to ATP because it was impossible for me to work and get my ratings and continue making the kind of money I was making. You have to remember, not only is it a $10k loan, but there's a chunk of lost income there too.

[Murdoughnut]

But I forgot to mention that I'm also paid crap for what I do - your salary would certainly be a factor to take into consideration.

[LoadMasterC141]

Is there a possibility? Yes. Has it been harder than I thought and planned to get this far working full time and doing my ratings? Yes.

Do I hate my job with a passion that only a fellow cube monkey could understand? UH HUH!

I do understand the lost income part. $10k is nothing compared to that.

[SmitteyB]

Flying for a living is not worth being in debt. I'm sorry...believe me I do it and I lose sleep over it at night.

The regionals will continue hiring, don't buy into the "get your seniority number" mentality.

DEBT SUCKS- BIGGEST MISTAKE I MADE.

[troopernflight]

C. I don't know what kind of house payment you have, but for 80K/year....dang, I would kill to be making that much right now. I would keep widdling away if you are that close.

[milski]

C. - keep the high paying cube job, take it easy there - it's not like they'd fire you in less than a year or two, meanwhile get your CFI ratings, instruct on the side and give yourself some time to enjoy all of it.

[aceflyerswa]

1. Are you married, I'm guessing not.
2. Do you have health ins. with your current job. If you quit your job and break your leg or something then what will you do?
3.Can you not find another job that is better that pays about the same.
4.Keep working put aside a $ amount each month in savings until you reach your 10000 goal.
5. Debt is bad.

I have to tell the truth I went to ATP a long time ago. Family GAVE me the money to get all my ratings, then I became an instructor.It was great for me,glad I didn't owe 20000 in debt.

[t-cart]

I have to agree with the rest. Keep your cube job,save some money. The big debt is BAD. I saw a web in i think kentucky,where you could come in for a weekend ground school,go back home for the next week,then come back for about a week,and get the cfi done. Cant remember the name but i will look for it,if you might be interested. Good luck, T.C.

[surreal1221]

C - The end.

[ilove747s]

I'm in the same situation. 9-5pm desk job....good job that pays for the flying and of course with a $45,000 loan I have pondered the idea of flying full time with no job but I really can't do the loan. It's not for me and I would never sleep at night.

I'm trying to pay for my ratings as-I-go without debt as being debt free is the key to being on the track to financial success.

In the end though if gas prices continue to go up and the plane rates change I may need $5,000 - $10,000, but hopefully not...we'll see what happens. So just to be safe today I got a line of credit for $10,000. I won't pay anything if I don't use it, but just in case of an emergency or something changes it's there.

So Loadmaster141c maybe look at getting a LOC instead of a loan. It will give you more flexibility and you don't pay anything unless you use it. (well you may have an annual fee of less than $25 bucks.....no big deal)

[Nihon_Ni]

Option D) Starting tomorrow, put yourself on a 1st yr professional pilot's budget. For the sake of argument, let's call that $30K in income. If you're making $75-80K now, then you should be able to save ~$4000 per month. ($50K/12 months)
q 4-5 months buys you option A.
q 2-3 months buys you option B.

Presto -- no debt!! I'll bet you will find that cubical life will become more tollerable if you have an end in mind. If you knew that you only had to live the life of Office Space for 3 more months and you'd be free it might give you a whole new lease on life.

The added bonus is that you get to see what it's like to live on a pilot's salary before you actually jump ship. If you find out it's too big of a shift in QOL, then you have time to back out before anyone at work knows what you were up to.

Win-win.

[JDMcFly]

If I were making 80k a year, I would personally not be looking at taking out loans.

Of course, I make less than 15k a year and work ~35 hours a week.

So I am loading up on all the stafford loans I can. I consider them to be okay with their extremely low interest rates.

[MDPilot]

Originally Posted by Nihon_Ni

Option D) Starting tomorrow, put yourself on a 1st yr professional pilot's budget. For the sake of argument, let's call that $30K in income. If you're making $75-80K now, then you should be able to save ~$4000 per month. ($50K/12 months)
q 4-5 months buys you option A.
q 2-3 months buys you option B.

Presto -- no debt!! I'll bet you will find that cubical life will become more tollerable if you have an end in mind. If you knew that you only had to live the life of Office Space for 3 more months and you'd be free it might give you a whole new lease on life.

The added bonus is that you get to see what it's like to live on a pilot's salary before you actually jump ship. If you find out it's too big of a shift in QOL, then you have time to back out before anyone at work knows what you were up to.

Win-win.

Bingo!!! There's your answer!

[SmitteyB]

If you were to offer me that pay at a desk job- I would have NO problem saving and flying on the side.

We know flying looks amazing from the outside, and it's a great job but it is NOT WORTH the debt you incur. No stress will make airline flying MUCH MUCH better.

[Chet Kelly]

Would anyone here borrow a large amount of money at a high interest rate and invest it into a poor stock that historically has had a poor return on investment and is predicted to continue in that direction?

[LoadMasterC141]

Originally Posted by aceflyerswa

1. Are you married, I'm guessing not.
2. Do you have health ins. with your current job. If you quit your job and break your leg or something then what will you do?
3.Can you not find another job that is better that pays about the same.
4.Keep working put aside a $ amount each month in savings until you reach your 10000 goal.
5. Debt is bad.

I have to tell the truth I went to ATP a long time ago. Family GAVE me the money to get all my ratings, then I became an instructor.It was great for me,glad I didn't owe 20000 in debt.

1) Yes I am married. My wife is an ESL teacher. Makes close to $50k. We have no kids.
2) Health Ins through my wife will suffice for the short term that I am full time training/ not working.
3) Sure but it would be the same job really. I would not be able to do much flight training while getting into the new job and would probably have to move.
4) See note below
5) No doubt

If you were to offer me that pay at a desk job- I would have NO problem saving and flying on the side.

I will gladly switch with you. No offense Smittey, but just like I am looking through a glass window at your life, the same is said for you in mine. And I should set the record straight: I made $72k gross last year. This year, with a raise I am expecting, it will be no more than $80k. That really is not outrageous salary or anything.

Option D) Starting tomorrow, put yourself on a 1st yr professional pilot's budget. For the sake of argument, let's call that $30K in income. If you're making $75-80K now, then you should be able to save ~$4000 per month. ($50K/12 months)
q 4-5 months buys you option A.
q 2-3 months buys you option B.

Presto -- no debt!! I'll bet you will find that cubical life will become more tollerable if you have an end in mind. If you knew that you only had to live the life of Office Space for 3 more months and you'd be free it might give you a whole new lease on life.

The added bonus is that you get to see what it's like to live on a pilot's salary before you actually jump ship. If you find out it's too big of a shift in QOL, then you have time to back out before anyone at work knows what you were up to.

Win-win.

I have already done this and it is a great idea! I paid off tens of thousands of dollars in debt in the last year. Check out some of my threads in the career changer section to see EXACTLY how I did it all.

I have also paid for 163 hours of flight training so far.

To do all this, my wife and I live off $1000/month. Thats' a grand a month to pay for food, gas, and anything else that is not a regular bill. At one point, it was $800/month. I literally dibbyed out $800 in cash for us to use until we got used to it.

The big debt is BAD. I saw a web in i think kentucky,where you could come in for a weekend ground school,go back home for the next week,then come back for about a week,and get the cfi done. Cant remember the name but i will look for it,if you might be interested. Good luck, T.C.

Falling in the hole 10 grand does not classify as "Big Debt" in my book. Yes please look that school up if you could TC.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

[aceflyerswa]

Dude if you can get your wife to live off 1000 dollars a month. Do whatever the hell you want!!!

[LoadMasterC141]

Actually...She lives off $600/month..I get $400
To be honest though, we have only manged this 6 of 12 months in 2007.

Our average monthly spending money has been $1361 for 2007. I think it will go down more this year because we both finally kicked smoking. That is $100-$150/mo right there!

My wife is extremely supportive. I put her through the end of college and her masters so it is my turn

[Nihon_Ni]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

Actually...She lives off $600/month..I get $400

Care to offer any advice on how to get your wife to live on $600 / month? I just might pay you $10K for the info!

[OldTownPilot]

I would go with a "modified B" Get your CSEL at Temple. Go to "someplace quick" to get your Multi, CFI, CFII and MEI. Go back to Temple and fly for living.

This is probably going to be very similar to what I do except replace Temple with Bar Harbor.

[t-cart]

Loadmaster,Aerotech.net is the school i was talking about. Go in on first friday at six pm. ,ground school all weekendtill sunday at six pm. Go home,then back second friday,six pm till sunday six pm. Then starting Monday,you will do the flying part and take the checkride. I dont know anything about them other than what is on the site. Sounds pretty quick. I misread the original post about the debt. Hope this helps,and good luck with whatever you decide. T.C.

[aceflyerswa]

Originally Posted by Nihon_Ni

Care to offer any advice on how to get your wife to live on $600 / month? I just might pay you $10K for the info!

Me too! I think that would save me 10K a year.

[killbilly]

You guys must've been light smokers.

I'm a moderate smoker, and it's about $150 a month just for me.

sigh

[38bat]

I know I will get flamed for this but you asked for opinions so here is mine.... My point of view is from a 34 year old career changer who had an income significantly higher than yours, wife who doesn't work and two kids. I got rid of everything and moved 3,000 miles to chase my dreams. I can relate to hating your job. My advice is to go with option A with the following notes:

A) Quit my current job and buy 100 multi and then get a job with a regional taking low timers. I am not sure you would need 100 multi. I would see which airlines you are interested in and find out their mins. Mins may be alot lower with a crj course(like it or not, alot of airlines place value on this) or glass cockpit time. Maybe 25-50 hours in a glass cockpit twin or 25 hours and crj course. Do some quick research. If you are looking to go to ASA you likely don't need 100 hours so you can save some money and maybe safety pilot with someone. Should be able to get 50ish in a week or so with a little planning.
q Gonna cost around $15-20k to get that time. With a little planning it should be way less..
q Will need a loan. If you are making combined 10k+ a month and living on a grand you shouldn't need a loan. Do a little homework and you should be able to figure this out. Even if you spent 5k on multi time and 5k on a CRJ course. If you do need a loan do it anyway. With your wifes income and your budgeting you can get 10k paid off in no time.
q Choice of regional will be very limited. Again, figure out where you want to end up and that will make your choices easier. If you need 500+ hours to get hired than you have some work to do. Another time build option is to buy a plane and fly your @#$ off when you aren't working. I have put 65 hours on my plane in the last 3 weeks. At your income level you could afford to time build in your own 152 and it would be cheap. I would guess if you had your own plane with no scheduling issues you could fly 100 hours a month.
q Time to airline possibility: 3-4 Months Again, depends on where you want to go.

My point is that if you are serious now is the time. Things can change tomorrow so live for today. It sounds like you have a good safety net with a wife that works and good budgeting. I would also guess that if you are making 80k you are employable. I know part of my thought process was I believe in myself and know that I can always make money if I need to. If the airlines furloughed you could you find a job making enough to meet your needs? If yes, go for it.... do not wait.. take the fastest track. Just my opinion and I am a newbie so everybody flame away! JOE

P>S I simplified my life to a budget similar to yours and even though I am not working yet I am flying almost everyday. I have never been happier, love the simpler life and don't miss the money all that much. Best decision I ever made.