Advice: Small Loan?

[jtrain609]

I'm going to add in that with where the economy is headed right now, and where this profession will go, don't go to the first crappy regional that will hire you. You WILL hate your life, quit doing this and be bitter at the industry. Go somewhere you want to be, with the work rules you want to live with for a few years and hang on because things are slowing down QUICKLY. Simply being able to fly every at work isn't worth much if you hate your job because your company treats you horribly.

[Murdoughnut]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

I'm going to add in that with where the economy is headed right now, and where this profession will go, don't go to the first crappy regional that will hire you. You WILL hate your life, quit doing this and be bitter at the industry. Go somewhere you want to be, with the work rules you want to live with for a few years and hang on because things are slowing down QUICKLY. Simply being able to fly every at work isn't worth much if you hate your job because your company treats you horribly.

Well if you're a low timer, it might make sense to go to the crappy regional for a few months, then use that time to upgrade to a better regional, right?

[jtrain609]

Your assuming that the choice regionals will continue to hire.

That's a bad assumption as far as I'm concerned. The party has stopped at my company and I'm probably going to spend a year commuting 4.5 hours every week to reserve. The only thing keeping me going are the excellent work rules and pilot group. If I didn't think this place was #### hot I'd be out to the home town airline like whoa.

What happens if you're commuting from Florida to New York every week to fly a Dash-8 for the next 3 years because you couldn't move on from there? Pick your new move wisely, it could be your last for a while.

[Duck_Twacy]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

I will gladly switch with you. No offense Smittey, but just like I am looking through a glass window at your life, the same is said for you in mine.

I feel ya dog...I guess the grass is always greener, but after 10 years in the 8x8 tweed cell, I'll switch with anyone any day of the week.

That being said, do whatever you can to keep your debt low to nonexistent. I got a little impatient towards the end myself, and racked up a little bit of debt (<10k). I don't really regret it, but I would feel better if it wasn't there. However, we're trying to follow the advice above about putting yourself on 1st year FO (or CFI) pay now, and putting the extra toward the debt. I'm counting the days, and soon you will be too!

[LoadMasterC141]

JohnnyTrain......Here is the thing:

I used to be a crewmember in the Air Force, as most here know. I have read many accounts, here at Jetcareers, of crappy days piloting at a regional for little money.
Sorry but they all pale in comparison to the life I lead as a Loadmaster on 141's. There is an individual on here now who used to be a KC-135 pilot that is happier working for Colgan! That should help you understand.

Though our rest rules were solid, our schedules never were. The average trip schedule was 4 days but the average trip length was 10. I had left on a 10 day trip and come home a month later numerous occasions.
We constantly had our day change. The plane broke everywhere and we sat around, switched planes, gave ours away, etc etc etc. One minute we were headed home, the next we were going to Africa.

I got paid a piddly sum and rarely had a clue what I was doing day to day. But you know what? I FREAKIN LOVED IT! I was in a different place in the world daily; drunk in Frankfurt one day, seeing the Pyramids horseback at 3AM the next! Just the regular base to base runs with minimum time off were the kind of excitement I liked! Having no idea what the schedule was took a toll on most, but I just took it with a grain of salt. The ONLY reason I left was to get my degree and go back as a pilot; driving the plane was cool! If I had known my eyesight would have fallen outside the mins, I would have stayed enlisted as a load today.

I'll go ahead and paint the picture of what I do right now, as I have numerous times before here at JC:

Today, I make a hefty sum sitting in a cubicle playing Excel Jockey. As I type here, my PC is hacking away at routing algorithms for the spring reroute. When it is done, I'll do some formatting, write a few formulas, evaluate the data, and submit reccomendations my bosses will largely ignore because it was not their idea. I have no idea if it is sunny or raining out. My only outlet is JC, which I carefully read when noone is coming by, having imprinted the sound of my bosses footsteps in my subconscious. Tomorrow is Friday, I get 2 days off! Then back to the cube farm for 5. I get 8 days off a month. Weeknights I get home at 6, in bed by 9:30-10, so I can get up at 5:30 for my next work day. 10 days of extra time is allowed a year.

10 years from now, I'll make more money as a manager or director. I'll get an extra week of vacation, which I'll need to make up for the extra hour per day I am required to work, plus Saturdays, and the inevitable Blackberry I am attached to at all moments.

This just is not for me. I am sure it does fine for others. Having seen both sides of the fence, I choose the other.

Finally, for the guy that said "CARPE DIEM!", I find no fault in that. I have tried to cautiously approach this career change, following all the cautionary advice. It has been almost 2 years since I started down this path. Back then, a fast track program at ATP was $40k and the regionals were starting to hire like no tomorrow. Today, it is $55K and alot of the big push has gone by. Had I simply seized the day then, I would have a big loan sure, but I would be close to a Captain slot by now and $40k in the hole. Today, my training will cost just under that, I may have missed the hiring spree, and I STILL am sitting here in this miserable Effing cubicle!


I keep thinking about the most common statement heard at JC:
"Noone can predict what will happen tomorrow in this industry".
Predict? No. But I can see the going is good right now. Its' like a surfer waiting for the ultimate best wave and missing all the great ones that went by.

Sit by the wayside and wait forever...life WILL pass you by.

Anyway...That is where I am sitting.

[LoadMasterC141]

Earlier this year, my original boss at this company, and long time mentor, asked me if I had picked my date yet. I told him I was still waffling trying to get out of it debt free. Though he had promised me the world if I stayed, he wanted me to follow my dreams. So, the current president of one of our divisions, sent me this as something to think about:

Picture this. You're standing on conveyor belt. It's carrying you down a long, narrow hallway. Each side of the hallway is lined with closed doors, small signs hanging just above their frame.

The messages on those signs is something that you need to
pay close attention to. Very close attention.

The speed of the conveyor belt isn't too fast - slow enough
to let you comfortably open and step through one of the
doors - but not much time to question your choice.

After a few moments, a door has passed you by forever.

Peering down the long hallway you see the belt is heading toward a larger door marked 'EXIT.'

You have a fair amount of time before you reach this door, but make no mistake, you are forever moving toward it.

What is Written on Those Signs???

After a few minutes, your curiosity gets the best of you
and you focus intently on the writing above each door.

After passing a few doors trying your best to make out the small writing, you realize that each sign contains a personal goal, a change you've always wanted to make or a dream you've always wanted to achieve.

This corridor is your life.

Each door is an opportunity for change, for happiness, for success. Everything you have ever wanted to be, do, and have is represented by each door along the corridor.

And just like life, the longer you wait to step through the doors, the greater the chance that they'll pass you by.

Eventually nearly every door will be behind you, impossible
to enter. I say nearly because only one will remain - the
one at the end of the corridor.

Before we move on, I have a question for you.

Do you know what would be written above each door? Do you know what you really want today, tomorrow, and ten years from now? If you don't know what you want, you'll never get anything more than you have right now.

But don't worry! If you only know that you are dissatisfied with what you have now, all hope is not lost. There is great power in dissatisfaction; it's the beginning of change and improvement. You just have to know what to do with it.

A Fact You Must Realize
We aren't talking about a hypothetical situation. You don't have forever to do something about the things you want. But very few like to face this fact head on.

Deny it all you want - it's true.

A great deal of my work is in honesty and truth - these are
the cornerstones of motivation. It's much more than getting excited and running out the door with a big grin on your
face. It's about letting the facts of life hit you and
drive you toward a better life.

Today I want you to let the facts hit you. I want you to think about that hallway, and what signs would hang above each door.

I want you to look to the end of the hallway, toward the exit. Think about that. Think about the fact that you do not have an eternity to experience all the things you want to experience.

Recognize the fact that you may actually never become the person you know you are fully capable of becoming - if you fail to act.

Most people live life as if they'll be around for the next thousand years.

'Yeah, I've got goals, but what's the rush?' they think.

But the real winners in life, the ones who illuminate every room they enter, attract success in everything they do, and simply love being alive, never hide from the truth.

The use it to motivate them toward the things they want.

What You Need to Do Today

I want you to take just a few minutes today to think about the corridor, the conveyor belt, and the doors lining your hallway.

Really think about it.

The point isn't to make you feel bad - it's to inspire you with a sense of urgency and excitement. It's to make you realize the truth and use it as motivation for the rest of your life.

Think about that hallway, my friend. Think about it.

If it scares you a little, that's a good thing. Fear is a powerful motivator. But what do you do next? For many
people, they get the urge to do something different in their lives but don't know what to do with the feeling.

The drive soon dissipates and eventually disappears.

You have a choice to make at this very moment. You can continue to travel down the corridor of your life without making a move toward any door, or you can break out of the routine and start living life at an entirely new level.

Regardless of your choice, you'll eventually reach the end
of the line. I suggest you open as many doors as possible
before that time arrives.

[38bat]

What are you waiting for? Seriously, today is the day to put your plan in motion. Go for it!

[88MPH]

I too am going wall-eyed from staring at my LCD all the live long day. Grass or no grass, only so much can be tolerated.

Dude, you have painted the picture, and answered your own questions while doing so.

After all the bills are paid, the wife, our 2 rascals and I make it by on about 800/month. It royally sucks, but thank student loans for that. So with that, it's a double edged perspective. Money talks, but I can guarantee you, you're gonna hate yourself BIGTIME if you make it to the leashed managment monkey suit gig. And if you hate yourself, everyone around you might not hate you, but they'll be absolutely miserable on some level because they see that you're not happy. I'm almost in that boat myself. Being only 24, I KNOW I won't be happy doing anything else, and I had BETTER get my arse in line and get my CFI and get moving.

There are those that say "you're never too old to enter this industry," but if you have a family, and would like to make a decent wage, then there IS a "too late." Regrets are hell to live with, and pretty soon, it's gonna be too late.

Don't let it happen to you. DO IT BROTHER! You may have to take 6 months to a year, use your current income to gather all the info, plan your budget, route your potentials, but PLEASE don't talk yourself out of it. I am walking the road, you've walked (are walking the road) as are MANY others. Money talks, but end the end, if you rely on it, it's merely a placebo.

Get busy living, or get busy dying.

[LoadMasterC141]

Thanks everyone for your time to read this thread and give advice so far....

Well I am sure I am the proverbial "horse not drinking the koolaid" guy again now, but I am going to speed things up with a small loan. Two years of the cautious road is due diligence and penance paid in my book.

I could just charge it up on my CCs, but I think I'll just do a low interest equity thing.

[GalaxyIFE]

Hey LOAD!!!! (sorry, don't get to say that too much on locals )

I’m not going to give you advice per say, just another “outlook.” As you know, I am still an active flyer in the AF…it does suck since I rarely get to go on trips and spend 90% of the time going through CBTs, doing QA reports, basically sitting in a cube most of the time figuring out where the courseware is screwed up and I HATE IT, even though it’s aviation related and I can come and go as I please. I guess I should count myself lucky that I do get to fly (or fight with MX around here) every now and again even if it is just flying around the flag pole. If I KNEW I couldn’t fly AT ALL for the last 5 years of my AF career and HAD to sit on a cube all day…I’d be out @ my DOS. No questions asked. People would call me stupid. People would call me an idiot. But you know what? I don’t care. I am in a similar position that I have no kids, no debt (except that damn mortgage) and my significant other makes a decent living. 10K is a used Saturn…not a huge sum. I could and I feel confident that you could afford to live on chump change if need be. You already know how this industry is, so no need to re-hash that…just keep it in the back of your mind. I try to make decisions in my life to minimize the “I wish I had flashbacks” when I am 80 and sitting on the dock drinking a cool beverage. After wasting 10 years in a horrible marriage, I figured out that the ONLY one that will judge EVERYTHING you have EVER done in life is you…so, I would go for it…no regrets, no second guesses. You aren’t going to starve if you have a couple hiccups in your flying career…you’ll be just fine!!! OK, guess that’s it for now…sorry about the long post!

And yeah, just 10 day trips??? Geez, you must have left before 9/11. Nothing like a 21-day SRT, a day home and ANOTHER 21-day SRT!!!

[LoadMasterC141]

Eng, Load...Can you turn the heat up? hehe. Haven't said that in a decade or so

Thanks for the advice and vote of confidence sir!

[Left Seat]

My dad says "Your young, you have your whole life ahead of you!"
The next day he says "Man.... life passes by so quickly"

This thread reminds me of just that.

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by Left Seat

My dad says "Your young, you have your whole life ahead of you!"

True in my 20's.

The next day he says "Man.... life passes by so quickly"

Then I hit 30.

Trust me. It's true. Time compresses somehow and moves much faster.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

JohnnyTrain......Here is the thing:

I used to be a crewmember in the Air Force, as most here know. I have read many accounts, here at Jetcareers, of crappy days piloting at a regional for little money.
Sorry but they all pale in comparison to the life I lead as a Loadmaster on 141's. There is an individual on here now who used to be a KC-135 pilot that is happier working for Colgan! That should help you understand.

Though our rest rules were solid, our schedules never were. The average trip schedule was 4 days but the average trip length was 10. I had left on a 10 day trip and come home a month later numerous occasions.
We constantly had our day change. The plane broke everywhere and we sat around, switched planes, gave ours away, etc etc etc. One minute we were headed home, the next we were going to Africa.

I got paid a piddly sum and rarely had a clue what I was doing day to day. But you know what? I FREAKIN LOVED IT! I was in a different place in the world daily; drunk in Frankfurt one day, seeing the Pyramids horseback at 3AM the next! Just the regular base to base runs with minimum time off were the kind of excitement I liked! Having no idea what the schedule was took a toll on most, but I just took it with a grain of salt. The ONLY reason I left was to get my degree and go back as a pilot; driving the plane was cool! If I had known my eyesight would have fallen outside the mins, I would have stayed enlisted as a load today.

I'll go ahead and paint the picture of what I do right now, as I have numerous times before here at JC:

Today, I make a hefty sum sitting in a cubicle playing Excel Jockey. As I type here, my PC is hacking away at routing algorithms for the spring reroute. When it is done, I'll do some formatting, write a few formulas, evaluate the data, and submit reccomendations my bosses will largely ignore because it was not their idea. I have no idea if it is sunny or raining out. My only outlet is JC, which I carefully read when noone is coming by, having imprinted the sound of my bosses footsteps in my subconscious. Tomorrow is Friday, I get 2 days off! Then back to the cube farm for 5. I get 8 days off a month. Weeknights I get home at 6, in bed by 9:30-10, so I can get up at 5:30 for my next work day. 10 days of extra time is allowed a year.

10 years from now, I'll make more money as a manager or director. I'll get an extra week of vacation, which I'll need to make up for the extra hour per day I am required to work, plus Saturdays, and the inevitable Blackberry I am attached to at all moments.

This just is not for me. I am sure it does fine for others. Having seen both sides of the fence, I choose the other.

Finally, for the guy that said "CARPE DIEM!", I find no fault in that. I have tried to cautiously approach this career change, following all the cautionary advice. It has been almost 2 years since I started down this path. Back then, a fast track program at ATP was $40k and the regionals were starting to hire like no tomorrow. Today, it is $55K and alot of the big push has gone by. Had I simply seized the day then, I would have a big loan sure, but I would be close to a Captain slot by now and $40k in the hole. Today, my training will cost just under that, I may have missed the hiring spree, and I STILL am sitting here in this miserable Effing cubicle!


I keep thinking about the most common statement heard at JC:
"Noone can predict what will happen tomorrow in this industry".
Predict? No. But I can see the going is good right now. Its' like a surfer waiting for the ultimate best wave and missing all the great ones that went by.

Sit by the wayside and wait forever...life WILL pass you by.

Anyway...That is where I am sitting.

Then you've made your decision, and after doing similar work in college for three years, so I can understand the, "Hey boss! I found a real simple solution to our problem, and it'll only cost about $300 in new equipment! What? The other guy on the team says we don't need it? He's a freshman, doesn't know what he's talking about and believe me boss, we can do it that way but the servers will start crashing soon with the load we're putting on them. Wait I'm what? You want me off the project? No problem boss, call me when the servers start crashing."

It took about a month before servers started crashing and I got a call.

With that said, what can I do to help? I'm completely serious when I say call me if you need ANYTHING with getting the ball rolling on this one. You understand what you're getting into pretty well, and if there's anything I can do at all, from calling buddies to get your resume in somewhere, or if you need buddy passes to get to an interview or whatever, seriously give me a ring. If you need my number check the NJC contact list or send me a PM.