Can you negotiate a higher salary

[phoenix 23684]

Still being pretty new to commercial flying I have a question: Can an individual negotiate a salary/raised based on advance education, i.e. Masters. Other industries reward their employees for seeking a b.s. masters, certificate, even though it may not be directly related to the job. It's the whole bettering of yourself kind of deal. Some like Lockheed will give trade education for years of experience.

Any thoughts from someone who has tried this?

[Doug Taylor]

In the airline business, negative.

Corporate? Perhaps, I don't know!

[PGT]

Unless you're flying for Virgin Atlantic.

[moxiepilot]

why not? as you add value to the company, you should ask for compensation to the degree which you add value.

[I_Money]

But does one pilot add more value than another - I have flown many times and they all seem to do the same to me!

[Doug Taylor]

Sorry folks, irregardless (SteveC loves that word) of how you feel, in the airline business, you start out at first year/probationary pay for the most part.

Besides, you're labor! The company would probably say, "BWAAAACK?! The other guy's cheaper, later skater!"

[C150J]

To answe the original poster's question, no, not in the airline world. Collective bargaining can be seen as a positive or negative depending on who you're talking to. Regardless, it's the status quo.

Originally Posted by I_Money

But does one pilot add more value than another - I have flown many times and they all seem to do the same to me!

Absolutely. Those in the business are very familiar with crew members that don't work well with others, facilitate delays, or lack communication skills. Fortunately, the ones that stand out are in the small minority. Kind of like saying that all MDs, MBAs, and JDs are created equal just because they all passed their boards, finals, and bar exams respectively.

Anyone at this level anyone can run checklists, quick reference handbooks, and know memory items. If that's all the airline wants, they will suffer when it comes to on time performance, company culture, and passenger experience.

[phoenix 23684]

Originally Posted by I_Money

But does one pilot add more value than another - I have flown many times and they all seem to do the same to me!

You are right, but in other industries and I can speak for Engineering and Space i.e. Lockheed, Boeing, Northrop, TRW, and a few others you get a raise if you have a degree, b.s. masters and PhD even if it is in basket weaving and nothing to do with your job. It add value as a whole.

Does a pilot with experience in Aeronautics of jet propulsion, hydraulics know more about what the airplane is doing than a 21 year old high school grad, specially when something is acting up? or one with a degree in Business understand more about the complexities of the business and assist with solving little problems? Or one with a JD understand legalities when confronted by a drunk lawyer refusing to leave the aircraft? I know these are extremes, but education as a whole helps to make you a better rounded person.

Doug, it's a shame that commercial flying does not, thank you for your reply.

[dc3flyer]

That's what makes the unions so great.... you will get paid what everybody else does or you can go elsewhwere!!!!

[C150J]

Originally Posted by dc3flyer

That's what makes the unions so great.... you will get paid what everybody else does or you can go elsewhwere!!!!

I see it as a double-edged sword. I agree that there is no such thing as a pure meritocracy, as butt-kissing and nepotism come into play when competitive promotion exists. However, fragmented unions make it difficult for long-standing employees to walk away when work rules and treatment deteriorate, as they'd be forced to the bottom of another airline's seniority list if they quit.

That being said, collective bargaining has saved many pilot groups from PBS and other swift policy moves by management that negatively effect QOL.

Although it would never happen, a "one list" philosophy within the airlines would be interesting. Imagine being able to lateral to another airline if they offered a better compensation package.

[MQAAord]

No negotiation, except in the form of the collective bargaining agreement.

Everyone is on the same page.

If you want a negotiable pay rate job, don't be an airline pilot.

I can't speak for the corporate side, the pay may be negotiable for a corporate outfit.

[TFaudree_ERAU]

My salary will hopefully/probably go up in a month or so because the captain and I said so in our 2008 flight department budget report. I love corporate...