Explaining Aviation to parents.

[youngflyer]

Alright, I am 16 and have begun my flight training, I am training relaxed for now but will pick it up around may. I am starting to look at colleges and my mom thinks that you need to go to an aviation school to become an airline pilot and that you need an aviation degree. She also said that college grades count a lot at airline interviews. I said that the main thing they look at is flight time and your knowledge of the aircraft systems. Is she right? I need help explaining all of this to her. All of this includes most of aviation. Any good websites for her to look at or things to tell her. If you guys have good posts I will tell her to look at this thread.

[Swen]

You are somewhat correct in that you necessarily do not have to attend a college for a degree in aviation. However, it would be highly encouraged to attend a college and get some kind of degree. Typically, you can only get so far up the career ladder without a degree.

[youngflyer]

Originally Posted by Swen

You are somewhat correct in that you necessarily do not have to attend a college for a degree in aviation. However, it would be highly encouraged to attend a college and get some kind of degree. Typically, you can only get so far up the career ladder without a degree.

Yeah that is what I said to her. I said that the degree does not matter what it is in as long as it is a degree and you would have to have the appropriate amount of flight time.

[PGT]

In today's world hours count for everything.

Having said that, you won't get very far without a 4-year college degree.

Now best thing would be to go to a college with a flight program, University of North Dakota for example, get a degree in business or whatever and do flight training on the side. You will graduate with all your ratings and a 4-year degree. A lot of people are against getting a degree in aviation because if you lose your medical x years down the road, what are you going to do? so get a degree in something you like.

[moxiepilot]

you don't need an *aviation* degree, but a degree would be helpful.

explaining that aviation progression is very non-linear may be helpful (ie if I accomplish taks A then I can do task B is not the way it has to be done. Think of it more as an open ended RPG where you can do what you want and still become something, but you don't have to do it in a specific way.)

[youngflyer]

Originally Posted by PGT

In today's world hours count for everything.

Having said that, you won't get very far without a 4-year college degree.

Now best thing would be to go to a college with a flight program, University of North Dakota for example, get a degree in business or whatever and do flight training on the side. You will graduate with all your ratings and a 4-year degree. A lot of people are against getting a degree in aviation because if you lose your medical x years down the road, what are you going to do? so get a degree in something you like.

That is exactly what I told her. Also we are looking at some flight schools and she was wondering if you could look up a flight schools complaints and instructor complaints. She is a nurse and she was like, if you can do that with doctors why not flight instructors and schools. I told her that flight schools are mostly regulated by the BBB and that I didnt think that you could view instructor complaints.

[minitour]

For the love of everything holy, go to a "regular" college and get a degree while flying.

Think about what happens when/if you lose your medical and all you have is flight time and an "aviation degree"?

Get a degree in something else that you enjoy while you work on your flying.

Actually, if you can pull it off, try to get your commercial and CFI/CFII when you turn 18 and then you can instruct while you're in college...make some money that way and get paid for your flight time.

You're starting off young which, IMHO, is great. When you're done with college you'll have your CSEL/CMEL, CFI/CFII, maybe the MEI...depending on how much you fly on breaks and over the summer you may have the time in to get your ATP when you turn 23.

Anyway, just don't get an "aviation degree"...but do get a degree!!!

Good luck!

-mini

[skydog]

You're off to a good start by pointing out this website to your parents. Get them a user ID and encourage them to use it. Hopefully they wll spend some time surfing and maybe asking some questions It's one thing to have your child tell you, but it is another thing to have them learn it themselves. The downsides are: 1) the large amount and "catfighting" that goes on here; and 2) They will learn some of the many downsides to professional aviation and may not encourage or support your goals. But they (and you) need to know about them.

I believe the Airline Pilot's Association has a nice pamplet on their website, but it may be a little dated.

[coa787]

Youngflyer, these guys are right. You do not need to major in an aviation-related degree. Most airlines "prefer" a four-year degree so that they see that you are willing to learn and can maintain good study habits, because when you're training with an airline, you will definitely need strong study habits and good learning skills in order to be successful.

I know how you feel. I'm 17 and also looking at colleges. The colleges that I will apply for are ones that will have a four-year ROTC program and preferably an ROTC detachment on campus, so that I don't have to travel back and forth between campuses in order to attend ROTC training. I also had to explain these things to my mom so that she understands what I want to do and to make sure that I understand the risks involved.

My plans are to attend a four-year college and be enrolled in a four-year ROTC program. I will most likely major in something like meteorology as a back-up, just in case
something should happen to me that would impede my ability to fly aircraft. Upon successful completion of ROTC and graduation of college, I will automatically be enrolled in the Air Force as a Second Lieutenant and will begin Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training (SUPT) for one year. Upon successful completion of that, I will begin flying in the Air Force. After I accumulate a certain amount of flight hours and have served beyond the required service time, I will retire from the Air Force and apply for an airline, preferably Continental.

I've thought of other ways of becoming a pilot, but this interests me the most because I have an interest in the military and I want to be able to serve my country.

Anyway, I hope this helps if you're considering other ways of becoming a pilot and good luck with your training and college selection!

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by coa787

Youngflyer, these guys are right. You do not need to major in an aviation-related degree. Most airlines "prefer" a four-year degree so that they see that you are willing to learn and can maintain good study habits, because when you're training with an airline, you will definitely need strong study habits and good learning skills in order to be successful.

I know how you feel. I'm 17 and also looking at colleges. The colleges that I will apply for are ones that will have a four-year ROTC program and preferably an ROTC detachment on campus, so that I don't have to travel back and forth between campuses in order to attend ROTC training. I also had to explain these things to my mom so that she understands what I want to do and to make sure that I understand the risks involved.

My plans are to attend a four-year college and be enrolled in a four-year ROTC program. I will most likely major in something like meteorology as a back-up, just in case
something should happen to me that would impede my ability to fly aircraft. Upon successful completion of ROTC and graduation of college, I will automatically be enrolled in the Air Force as a Second Lieutenant and will begin Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training (SUPT) for one year. Upon successful completion of that, I will begin flying in the Air Force. After I accumulate a certain amount of flight hours and have served beyond the required service time, I will retire from the Air Force and apply for an airline, preferably Continental.

I've thought of other ways of becoming a pilot, but this interests me the most because I have an interest in the military and I want to be able to serve my country.

Anyway, I hope this helps if you're considering other ways of becoming a pilot and good luck with your training and college selection!

Not a bad plan, really, in fact when I was your age it was mine!

Then reality set in. After two years in ROTC you have to sign on the dotted line, and the military owns you.

You're not assured a pilot slot, even if you test well, first slots always go to the acadmies first, then ROTC, and OTS.

Then there is that whole 10 yr. commitment thing. I'd suspect if a major war or series of battles/wars were to start they'd up that requred commitment time.

So, go in with eyes wide open. Me, I bailed because I didn't want to sign on the dotted line, not get a pilot slot, and be riding a desk (worst case scenario) for 8-10 yrs.

[OldTownPilot]

The hardest thing to explain to your parents is how you want to fly for a living when they fly for a living.

I still don't think they know how much I don't want to be an engineer.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

The hardest thing to explain to your parents is how you want to fly for a living when they fly for a living.

I still don't think they know how much I don't want to be an engineer.

That's almost as hard as a celebrities kid saying they want to go into the family business!!!

Though, it might be harder, lol!

[coa787]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Not a bad plan, really, in fact when I was your age it was mine!

Then reality set in. After two years in ROTC you have to sign on the dotted line, and the military owns you.

You're not assured a pilot slot, even if you test well, first slots always go to the acadmies first, then ROTC, and OTS.

Then there is that whole 10 yr. commitment thing. I'd suspect if a major war or series of battles/wars were to start they'd up that requred commitment time.

So, go in with eyes wide open. Me, I bailed because I didn't want to sign on the dotted line, not get a pilot slot, and be riding a desk (worst case scenario) for 8-10 yrs.

Thanks. I realize the risks involved and I understand what I have to do. I was actually originally thinking of attending the Air Force Academy because it's free, except for the couple thousand or so dollars that you have to put down once you start classes and after you finish the five or six-week training to prepare you for the academy. It's challenging, but then again I'm always up for a good challenge, so I might reconsider.

Nothing will stand in my way of becoming a pilot.

[coa787]

Well, I just read Seggy's post, and I guess instead of a four-year degree being "prefered" by the large carriers, it will be REQUIRED. It seems that it will go into effect by the end of this year.

So, Youngflyer, if you're thinking of flying for Major/Legacy carrier like Continental or American or United, GET A DEGREE, any four-year degree, you'll be glad you did.

[DE727UPS]

"If you guys have good posts I will tell her to look at this thread."

Hey mom. You should check out this site. Be glad you have a kid that is motivated to pursue a career at 16, and smart enough to come here and ask those who have gone before him how they did it.

I'd suggest you look at the home page of jetcareers, then click on the perspectives link, and notice the many different paths folks have taken to achive their goals.

Lastly, my dad says supporting me in my career goals was the smartest thing he ever did.

If you have any questions, my email is de727ups@hotmail.com

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"If you guys have good posts I will tell her to look at this thread."

Hey mom. You should check out this site. Be glad you have a kid that is motivated to pursue a career at 16, and smart enough to come here and ask those who have gone before him how they did it.

I'd suggest you look at the home page of jetcareers, then click on the perspectives link, and notice the many different paths folks have taken to achive their goals.

Lastly, my dad says supporting me in my career goals was the smartest thing he ever did.

If you have any questions, my email is de727ups@hotmail.com

Don, I'd also add that the kid is lucky that his parents care enough about him and his future to want to research schools and the industry!

Most don't undertand it, or care!

[ctab5060X]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

The hardest thing to explain to your parents is how you want to fly for a living when they fly for a living.

I still don't think they know how much I don't want to be an engineer.

I feel your pain on that one. I know it bugged my dad real bad when I started wanting to fly full time at the company where he was the CP. He later told me just how much he agonized over "letting go" and realizing I was an adult and could choose my own career path.

[EineBeBoP]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Lastly, my dad says supporting me in my career goals was the smartest thing he ever did.

2nd that.

Parents are so proud of me for finding a career I can start on and be excited about. And Im hardly a disappointment in other areas of life.

[ackeight]

Originally Posted by minitour

Think about what happens when/if you lose your medical and all you have is flight time and an "aviation degree"?

Get a degree in something else that you enjoy while you work on your flying.



Anyway, just don't get an "aviation degree"...but do get a degree!!!

Good luck!

-mini

I do disagree with that a little bit. Just like for a pilot most jobs do not require you to have a degree in that respective field. So for instance if you are not interested in getting another degree besides aviation then you don't have to. If I could do it over i'd get an aviation management or safety degree.still in aviation but a little more diversified.

[Ramsey]

It depends!

Do you want to be part of the 90% pool of applicants who have a degree or do you want to be in the 10% pool of applicants who do not have a degree?

Not to mention a majority of the majors require a 4 year degree – end of story. By not having the sheepskin you are cutting your opportunities significantly.

[germb747]

First, best of luck as your pursue this challenging and rewarding career field. I personally went the military route and now fly in the reserves and just took a civilian flying job. If "signing on the bottom line" is a concern after 2 years of ROTC, there's always Officer Training School (OTS). It's a bit more competitive to get into this commissioning source, but you'll be guaranteed a pilot training slot before you owe anything. OTS trains candidates for active duty slots as well as guard and reserve. The best route depends on you, your desires, timing, and a little luck.

You mentioned that the airlines look primarily at flight time and systems knowledge. Your flight time may get your foot in the door, but there's a whole lot more to getting the job than that and systems knowledge. They'll be looking to see if you're a well-rounded person who has demonstrated leadership potential. They'll do this "getting to know you" through a human resources interview to try to pick apart what you're made of. They'll want to ensure you have a personality that is conducive to good CRM and customer relations, and that you're someone people won't mind being around in tight quarters for a few days at a time. Go to a real four-year school, get a real degree, keep flying, get involved in extra-curricular activities and serve in leadership roles (both inside and outside of aviation), stay physically fit, and above all get to know people! Don't kid yourself, who you know counts huge. There may be ups and downs in the hiring between now and the time you're ready, so keep that in mind. When I graduated college in Dec 2002, finding a job in this business was nearly impossible compared to what it's like now--the industry works in cycles. Good luck!

[youngflyer]

Originally Posted by germb747

First, best of luck as your pursue this challenging and rewarding career field. I personally went the military route and now fly in the reserves and just took a civilian flying job. If "signing on the bottom line" is a concern after 2 years of ROTC, there's always Officer Training School (OTS). It's a bit more competitive to get into this commissioning source, but you'll be guaranteed a pilot training slot before you owe anything. OTS trains candidates for active duty slots as well as guard and reserve. The best route depends on you, your desires, timing, and a little luck.

You mentioned that the airlines look primarily at flight time and systems knowledge. Your flight time may get your foot in the door, but there's a whole lot more to getting the job than that and systems knowledge. They'll be looking to see if you're a well-rounded person who has demonstrated leadership potential. They'll do this "getting to know you" through a human resources interview to try to pick apart what you're made of. They'll want to ensure you have a personality that is conducive to good CRM and customer relations, and that you're someone people won't mind being around in tight quarters for a few days at a time. Go to a real four-year school, get a real degree, keep flying, get involved in extra-curricular activities and serve in leadership roles (both inside and outside of aviation), stay physically fit, and above all get to know people! Don't kid yourself, who you know counts huge. There may be ups and downs in the hiring between now and the time you're ready, so keep that in mind. When I graduated college in Dec 2002, finding a job in this business was nearly impossible compared to what it's like now--the industry works in cycles. Good luck!

Thanks all you guys. I will show her this thread for sure!

[minitour]

Originally Posted by ackeight

I do disagree with that a little bit. Just like for a pilot most jobs do not require you to have a degree in that respective field. So for instance if you are not interested in getting another degree besides aviation then you don't have to. If I could do it over i'd get an aviation management or safety degree.still in aviation but a little more diversified.

I don't know of any lawyers without a law degree.

I do know of a bunch of burger flippers at McDonalds that don't have a degree in fast food though.

Where do you want to work when/if you lose your medical?

...not to say you still can't work in the aviation industry without a medical but I'd still recommend getting a degree outside of aviation. If you're considering aviation management, just get a business management degree...that's good for several jobs outside and inside aviation.

Go to a good college that has a good program that you want to do well in. Fly at a local FBO or flying club if you can. Get your ratings while you're in school so you can CFI in college. Do the 4 years of college thing while instructing and flying charter part time (if you can...I'm sure you can find something part time to sit right seat in a king air or similar). When you're done with college, you'll have quite a list of credentials.

-mini

[Cessnaflyer]

There is an article in this months AOPA magazine written by Rod Machado about this subject. Although your parents don't sound reluctant this can give them another thing to read.

License to Learn: Reluctant moms and dads

By Rod Machado



Suppose I told you I could get your child to enthusiastically study geography, math, physics, chemistry, and psychology. After you had my head examined, would you be interested? Oh, and as a bonus I can get him or her to hang out with highly motivated, well-educated older people who are good role models because they don’t do drugs or spray graffiti, and they have a great work ethic.
You’re still with me, aren’t you? Then let’s talk about the value of allowing a responsible teenager to take flying lessons.
Perhaps you’re one of those parents (or perhaps you know one) who is reluctant to let your teenager take up flying for one or all of the usual reasons (generalized anxiety, cost, competition for the family airplane). Although you may have compelling reasons for feeling as you do, I’d like to offer a different perspective on why you should enthusiastically nurture and support your child’s desire to fly. More specifically, since you’re probably a pilot already and likely open to the idea, I’d like to offer you some ammunition that might help you convince reluctant non-pilot parents that flight training for their child would be the best educational investment they could make.
Social science research now says that a teenager’s peer group has as much (if not more) influence on the development of that individual’s values as his or her parents. For this reason alone, it’s reasonable to consider that flight training might confer a powerful developmental advantage on any young adult with an interest in airplanes. After all, the moment a person begins flight training, he or she immediately starts associating with an entirely new peer group that emphasizes the value of rules, rituals, and responsibilities.
Most of the individuals your child encounters during flight training are highly motivated, educated, and dedicated people, and most of them also will be older and more mature than your child. Think about it. Suddenly, your teenager starts singing the praises of someone over age 30 who values education, self-discipline, self-study, and self-reliance. Even in your wildest dreams as a parent, could you imagine that your teenager might seek out and spend time with such people, especially since these folks aren’t probation officers? Could you imagine having some influence over the new friends your offspring makes? Go ahead, pinch yourself so you’ll know it’s true.
There are few things as sad as young people without a sense of purpose or passion in their lives. Sure, they may be good kids, but they’re also bored, and boredom provides absolutely no developmental advantage whatsoever. Nature and teenagers abhor a vacuum (or a vacuum cleaner), so this void is going to be filled with something. This is the primary reason young people should be exposed to as many new and novel ideas as possible (specifically, ideas that don’t involve puncturing, piercing, or indelibly coloring parts of the body). You hope that such a worthwhile pursuit clicks and triggers a burning desire—the Holy Grail for most parents—deep in their child’s psyche. If there’s any chance that flight training will trigger a passion for learning in your child, then you owe it to him or her to explore the idea. It may just change the way they look at the world. It may also disabuse your child of the notion that being tossed into a mosh pit at a Radiators From Space punk rock concert and bodysurfing a wave of human hands is Nirvana itself.
Another reason to consider flight training for an interested teenager is that it’s an honest way of developing self-respect. For the past quarter century, the self-esteem movement in this country professed that simply making young people feel good about themselves was the key to generating productive and responsible behavior. We have seen this phenomenon in physical games where nobody loses because a score is seldom kept (thus, nobody has their feelings hurt) and everybody wins because you get a trophy for just showing up. Lack of self-esteem was even touted as the real reason behind the irresponsible and criminal behavior of young people. Social science, however, has shown this premise to be false. In fact, most of the really bad boys and girls in prison aren’t short on self-esteem. Scientifically speaking, criminals score extremely high on self-esteem scales. It turns out that the value of self-esteem as it applies to improving someone’s behavior is determined primarily by how it’s earned, not whether it’s conferred.
Telling young people to have pride and self-respect simply applies a veneer of feeling good but doesn’t teach them behaviors that both generate and sustain self-respect. In the end, the common sense view prevailed: People appreciate more deeply what they legitimately earn, not what they’re given (or told they should have). Learning to fly an airplane is a responsible, authentic means of generating pride and self-respect. Give an interested teenager flying lessons, and you’ll teach him or her that study, discipline, and practice are personal qualities to be admired and acquired.
If you’re hesitant about allowing your child to take flying lessons (or are the doting aunt, uncle, grandfather, or grandmother), I hope you’ll consider what I’ve said, and give the gift of flight. When you learn something new, you become something new. So give your child a chance to become something new by introducing him or her to aviation.

[ackeight]

Originally Posted by minitour

I don't know of any lawyers without a law degree.

I do know of a bunch of burger flippers at McDonalds that don't have a degree in fast food though.

Where do you want to work when/if you lose your medical?

...not to say you still can't work in the aviation industry without a medical but I'd still recommend getting a degree outside of aviation. If you're considering aviation management, just get a business management degree...that's good for several jobs outside and inside aviation.

Go to a good college that has a good program that you want to do well in. Fly at a local FBO or flying club if you can. Get your ratings while you're in school so you can CFI in college. Do the 4 years of college thing while instructing and flying charter part time (if you can...I'm sure you can find something part time to sit right seat in a king air or similar). When you're done with college, you'll have quite a list of credentials.

-mini

Ok smarty pants. There are SOME jobs out there that you need to specialize in. However, there a still a lot of jobs that you don't have to have a specific degree in to get the job. Just like aviation you need to have experience in the field they are looking to hire to get the job.