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November 3rd, 2003, 12:04
| #1 |
| Newbie  Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: KY
Posts: 21
|  Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
Hey, I've been checking into flight academies recently, and found this site to be a good resource. Gulfstream Academy is one I've been researching but haven't really found any information in this forum about it. Has anyone had any personal (or near-personal) experience with the Academy? I'm interested in their First Officer Program. For those who don't know, check out the web page and tell me what you think. Thanks a bunch, Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey, thanks for all the responses, everyone. Now I understand what you all are talking about. Yeah, paying for time AND buying a job away from a qualified pilot at the same time...kinda crappy. Thanks again. Anyone with any other suggestions for a fledgling pilot, please feel free to let me know. -Alan |
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November 3rd, 2003, 12:18
| #2 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida
Posts: 1,275
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
PFT is the devil...
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November 3rd, 2003, 12:21
| #3 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW
Posts: 213
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
no bueno dude...
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November 3rd, 2003, 12:25
| #4 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW
Posts: 7,373
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
Stay away from Gulfstream. From what I understand, it's the equvilant of career suicide.
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November 3rd, 2003, 12:29
| #5 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: So. California
Posts: 1,304
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
Place is a joke. Never pay for training in the manner they want you to. Pay for ratings and certificates, but never PFT.
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November 3rd, 2003, 12:31
| #6 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone
Posts: 5,810
 | Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
You will be apologizing for or rationalizing that decision for the rest of your career. I humbly advise you to pursue another avenue. |
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November 3rd, 2003, 12:34
| #7 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NEWARK
Posts: 1,129
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
Yeah, Ditto what they said above!!
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November 3rd, 2003, 12:48
| #8 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun
Posts: 1,643
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
PFT = Evil
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November 3rd, 2003, 13:25
| #9 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: BHB - Maine
Posts: 3,135
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
Noooooooooo!
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November 3rd, 2003, 13:26
| #10 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WASHINGTON, DC
Posts: 135
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
if i did pft, and then went to interview wiht comair...what would the employer say to me about it. I hear alot of bad things, but dont realyl understand why its so bad...other than every one says its evil.
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November 3rd, 2003, 13:49
| #11 |
| Junior Member  Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The fix formerly known as CHECO
Posts: 67
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
So I've heard a lot about PFT, and I'm trying to get a more precise grasp of what is/isn't PFT. Using this case as an example, is Gulfstream a PFT situation because students pay for the training in a particular type (1900), and then in return get to "fly the line" in that same plane? I am also assuming that there is no guarantee of employment past the 250 hours promised in the program? Am I on the right track? Mark |
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November 3rd, 2003, 13:52
| #12 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,922
  | Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
[ QUOTE ] if i did pft, and then went to interview wiht comair...what would the employer say to me about it. I hear alot of bad things, but dont realyl understand why its so bad...other than every one says its evil. [/ QUOTE ] Think of it this way. Who are the folks you'll be interviewing with? They're people who think PFT is evil. Now, everyone tries to not let their biases creep into the interview process, but guess what? They're human and they do. So what chance to you think you have of getting a job from someone who thinks that the route you took to get qualified for that job is wrong? Pretty much the same chance Stevie Wonder has of hitting a Pedro Martinez fastball, don't you think? Sure, it is possible. But that ain't how you're going to bet. |
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November 3rd, 2003, 14:00
| #13 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York
Posts: 1,694
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
[ QUOTE ] So I've heard a lot about PFT, and I'm trying to get a more precise grasp of what is/isn't PFT. Using this case as an example, is Gulfstream a PFT situation because students pay for the training in a particular type (1900), and then in return get to "fly the line" in that same plane? I am also assuming that there is no guarantee of employment past the 250 hours promised in the program? Am I on the right track? Mark [/ QUOTE ] You would be paying for flying the 250hours on the line. There is no hiring process, you have the cash and you fly the line.. If Gulf academy didn't have that PFT process, that would be a position someone would have to be hired (and paid) for. Basically, you're paying to take a position someone should be compensated for.. It is not good for pilots! (Hey, why should we pay these f/os more? We got guys willing to pay US) |
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November 3rd, 2003, 14:08
| #14 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW
Posts: 7,373
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
[ QUOTE ] So I've heard a lot about PFT, and I'm trying to get a more precise grasp of what is/isn't PFT. [/ QUOTE ] Here's an example: I spoke with a guy about a month ago who was attending one of the bigger-named academies. I asked him about the wait list for the CFI's and he said that he wasn't even going to get his CFI - he was going to Gulfstream. I said: Me: "Hmm. Might want to research that. Pay For Time isn't highly regarded from what I hear." Him: "Well, we all pay for time in one way or the other, right?" Me: "Not exactly. We all pay for ratings unless one goes the miltary route. We do not all pay for time. Some do. The rest of us build time and hopefully get paid for it. Big difference." That's my take, at least. To say "we all pay for time" is not entirely correct. As I said - we pay for ratings - hopefully the time after that... we earn. PFT is looked on as "bad" and "evil" because it is basically paying to be right seat when other pilots have busted their hump instructing/towing banners/flying firewatch/traffic/whatever for a VERY low wage.. to get there. It is buying yourself a job... instead of earning it. That's MHO. R2F |
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November 3rd, 2003, 14:09
| #15 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The fix formerly known as CHECO
Posts: 67
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
JD- Thanks for the response...Makes sense. Ditto, R2F Mark |
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November 3rd, 2003, 14:13
| #16 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: lower canada
Posts: 1,666
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
[ QUOTE ] Pretty much the same chance Stevie Wonder has of hitting a Pedro Martinez fastball, don't you think? Sure, it is possible. But that ain't how you're going to bet. [/ QUOTE ] Why you picking on the blind? I bet you none of us in here can hit one of pedro either.  |
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November 3rd, 2003, 14:17
| #17 |
| Newbie Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Carolina
Posts: 4
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
If you go to Gulfstream you are basically paying to work. It really works out great for the airline b/c instead of having to pay a well qualified pilot to fly their planes, they have someone who pays them anywhere from $50,000 - $60,000 to fly their planes. So, not only are you taking away a job from a pilot who is very well more qualified than you, but you also find yourself in debt of over $60,000 once the program is finished. You dont get any CFI ratings to fall back on, and there is no guarantee that you will be hired. Just think about it this way, why would they hire you after you finish the program and pay you what a FO is worth when they have another person willing to give them $50,000 once youre finished? And while its true they pay you during the 250 hrs...you only get $8.00/flight hr...which equals $2,000 in total....take away taxes, and you're left with $1400 that you have made over a 4 month period. I would research more flight schools, and read some of the forums for the specific schools here. Always remember that while there are some honest schools, they all are out to make money.
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November 3rd, 2003, 14:24
| #18 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Utah
Posts: 4,180
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
Gulfstream was one of the first schools we looked at and after all our research and investigating of all the schools, we concluded Flight Safety to have the best program and value, but good luck to you, which ever way you go.  |
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November 3rd, 2003, 14:36
| #19 |
| Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,922
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
[ QUOTE ] Why you picking on the blind? I bet you none of us in here can hit one of pedro either. [/ QUOTE ] Nope. I'd be happy to just foul one off. Smokey's probably the only one here who would have a reasonable shot of getting a hit against Pedro. |
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November 3rd, 2003, 14:55
| #20 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,952
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
I'd be ok with not taking one in the ear...
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November 3rd, 2003, 14:56
| #21 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Texas
Posts: 514
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] if i did pft, and then went to interview wiht comair...what would the employer say to me about it. [/ QUOTE ] Think of it this way. Who are the folks you'll be interviewing with? [/ QUOTE ] If you’re interviewing at Comair then you'll probably be interviewed by someone who PFTed... |
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November 3rd, 2003, 16:32
| #22 |
| Lurker
Posts: n/a
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
[ QUOTE ] If you’re interviewing at Comair then you'll probably be interviewed by someone who PFTed... [/ QUOTE ] Thats a pretty significant accusation. Not trying to start a flame but what info do you have that would point to ComAir execs and senior captains PFTing? Just curious. |
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November 3rd, 2003, 16:33
| #23 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: El Forko Grande
Posts: 2,630
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
Matt, I believe a long time ago they made new FO's pay for their training. So I think he meant that some of the more senior guys at Comair probably did that. |
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November 3rd, 2003, 16:49
| #24 |
| Agent Smith  | Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
When I was canvassing the airlines with resumes when I was a CFI, I do remember someone from Comair calling me back and telling me "Congratulations!" and that I'll need to bring a check for around $300 or so for the evaluation and another $12000 or so for training in the metro or brasilia. I remember telling the lady on the telephone that if I worked for an entire year as a CFI, didn't eat or spend a dime, that I'd still have to borrow $3,000 from my parents in order to get a job. No thanks! I don't think she even said goodbye before she hung up on me! haha! |
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November 3rd, 2003, 16:52
| #25 |
| Lurker
Posts: n/a
| Re: Gulfstream Int\'l Flight Academy
My bad, I had no idea. Well learn somethin new everyday. Thanks for the clarification.
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