Engine Failure after V1 but before V2 what do you do?

[Beechlover]

G-Day folks,

Getting knee deep in the interview study mode and can't seem to find an answer. I would say that an engine failure after V1 means I'm gonna take it in the air and since I am below V2, I'm gonna pitch for V2 to get it and hold on to it to min safe altitude.

The next one is..,

Lose engine after V1 with 7000 ft of runway remaining what do you?

My answer is to again (after V1) take it in the air and deal with it as an IFE, run the appropriate Immediate action Items/QRH/Checklists, then land.

Am I on the right track with this line of thinking? Thanks again..., getting back to books!

[Doug Taylor]

If you lose an engine after V1, you're going flying.

[SpiraMirabilis]

yeah, pretty much. before v1 stop, after v1 come around and land then have some pancakes.

[MQAAord]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

If you lose an engine after V1, you're going flying.

[triple7]

"We will abort for anything on the eicas before 80 knots......After 80, but before V1 we abort for engine failure, fire or loss of dir control....perception we wont fly.......After V1 we will take it in the air and treat it as an inflight emerg." thats the briefing we give before each flight. The profile for a V1 cut on the ERJ is to hold V2 until accel height. Then level off and accel to VFS before climbing at that. It may be diff for other aircraft. Hope this helps.

[Doug Taylor]

"anything" up to 80 knots? is there a feature on your EICAS where it won't alert you to certain malfunctions during certain phases of flight?

[Clocks]

IIRC the inhibition is from V1-15kts to 400agl.

[bike21]

Originally Posted by Beechlover

Lose engine after V1 with 7000 ft of runway remaining what do you?

[Beechlover]

You guys are Awesome!.., Thanks!!!

[ERfly]

Originally Posted by triple7

"We will abort for anything on the eicas before 80 knots......After 80, but before V1 we abort for engine failure, fire or loss of dir control....perception we wont fly.......After V1 we will take it in the air and treat it as an inflight emerg." thats the briefing we give before each flight. The profile for a V1 cut on the ERJ is to hold V2 until accel height. Then level off and accel to VFS before climbing at that. It may be diff for other aircraft. Hope this helps.

That is pretty much my briefing, too.

After V1, unless the airplane physically won't fly, you DO NOT stop.

[fishrichard]

All the above answers are great, but I'll add my 2 cents. The 7000 ft of runway shouldn't have anything to do with your answer. The v1 computation is associated with corresponding distance. At x temp and X pressure alt, and x weight, v1 will = x at x feet of runway. The distance equals the amount of rrunway it takes to accelerate just below v1 and then come to a stop, or accelerate to v1,vr, climb at v2 to 35ft agl(zero barrier) which is where second segment begins, single engine. Not trying to pontificate, I always understand stuff better when I have the associated big picture attached.

[USMC-SGT]

pretty much

simple answer...wait for Vr, rotate and go

In the dash V1 and Vr are almost always the same speed so at "Veeeeeeeeee" you are starting to pull back and are on your way.

[awacs94]

Perfect example of why you might abort >100 kts.



Direct Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN0y8iXQQ58

[Beechlover]

Originally Posted by awacs94

Perfect example of why you might abort >100 kts.



Direct Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN0y8iXQQ58

Not something I'd care to experience...

[Foxcow]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

"anything" up to 80 knots? is there a feature on your EICAS where it won't alert you to certain malfunctions during certain phases of flight?

Takeoff inhibition logic starts at V1-15 like someone else said but there are different layers of inhibition. Really important CAS messages that Embraer deemed of the utmost importance, engine fire, are not inhibited at all. I believe there are 4 different layers to the inhibition logic all depending on severity. The only thing that I can remember that is completely uninhibited is engine fire.

[higney85]

Ok without getting beyond knee deep think about the basics.

What is V1- what does it ensure?

What is V2- what does it ensure?

Remember the FAA certification requires an aircraft to lose an engine at V1, cross the threshold at 35 feet and accelerate to V2 with a climb gradient to clear obstacles, hence the nonstandard (single engine) climb out instructions for performance critical airports.

Don't just focus on V1, V2. Look at Vr, Vmca, Vmcg. Also look at the stages of the climb.
Start with the basics, then run your answer back by the board. As a mock interview here is your question... I believe its in the FAR's under 25.107 (or at least around there).


Q: Lets say you are taking off a 12,000ft runway. You reach V1 4,000 feet down and rotate (Vr), prior to V2 you lose your #1 engine to a flameout. You are just now lifting off- what do you do? Land or go flying? If you put her back down how much distance will it take? If you go flying what obstacle clearances are guaranteed and at what speed (in relation to Vspeeds) will you climb out at?

[Chet Kelly]

Originally Posted by Beechlover

G-Day folks,

Getting knee deep in the interview study mode and can't seem to find an answer. I would say that an engine failure after V1 means I'm gonna take it in the air and since I am below V2, I'm gonna pitch for V2 to get it and hold on to it to min safe altitude.

The next one is..,

Lose engine after V1 with 7000 ft of runway remaining what do you?

Go to STAPLES and purchase one of those big red "easy buttons". When said question comes up in the interview just simply take it out of your briefcase, place it on the desk/table between you and the interviewer, and press it.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by higney85

Remember the FAA certification requires an aircraft to lose an engine at V1, cross the threshold at 35 feet and accelerate to V2 with a climb gradient to clear obstacles,

[/b]

FAR takeoff certification gives no guarantee that you will clear obstacles. Only achieve a climb gradient.

You are on your own to determine if you will miss obstacles in the departure path.

[higney85]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

FAR takeoff certification gives no guarantee that you will clear obstacles. Only achieve a climb gradient.

You are on your own to determine if you will miss obstacles in the departure path.

But that FAR climb gradient requirement is a factor in being able to be dispatched under part 121 to an airport or from an airport in this case. If you cannot climb out of the airport after a V1 cut you will not be operating out of the airport under part 121 ops. At least this is my understanding of part 25 and 121 of the FAR's.

...Of course this discussion happens while I am in fort myers on a 22 hour layover where 16 once beers are $1. yes $1 each!

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by higney85

But that FAR climb gradient requirement is a factor in being able to be dispatched under part 121 to an airport or from an airport in this case. If you cannot climb out of the airport after a V1 cut you will not be operating out of the airport under part 121 ops. At least this is my understanding of part 25 and 121 of the FAR's.

...Of course this discussion happens while I am in fort myers on a 22 hour layover where 16 once beers are $1. yes $1 each!

I agree...the airplane must be able to meet Part 25 climb gradients. But it has nothing to do with clearing obstructions. You are simply planning that you can meet the required climb gradients.

Obstruction clearance analysis in something entirely separate from Part 25 climb certification.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by higney85

...Of course this discussion happens while I am in fort myers on a 22 hour layover where 16 once beers are $1. yes $1 each!

Screw the V1 discussion. When did we get RSW layovers!????! I'm gonna have to change that PBS so I can take 22 hours and head to MCO.

[higney85]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Screw the V1 discussion. When did we get RSW layovers!????! I'm gonna have to change that PBS so I can take 22 hours and head to MCO.

Not only is it a 22 hour RSW layover but its at a Hampton with multiple restaurants within walking distance and the UNO has $1 beer!



Back to the question. At V1 or faster you are going flying. Prior to V2 isnt the concern here- V1 is the point of the decision. From there you will accelerate to V2 and climb. You may not climb enough to clear the mountain but you will find performance critical airports have single engine climb out instructions when there is a mountain at the end of the runway.




Not arguing with you B767driver- just stating for the original poster that each V speed has a reason. It goes back the validity of the original topic.

Personally a mountain at the end of the runway makes me concerned for any takeoff. The departure will depend on each airport and aircraft but either way you will be required to be able to go flying at V1 and safely get out without smacking something big and unforgiving. Lets not split hairs- I think we are both running parallel thought processes on the issue.

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by higney85

Not only is it a 22 hour RSW layover but its at a Hampton with multiple restaurants within walking distance and the UNO has $1 beer!



Back to the question. At V1 or faster you are going flying. Prior to V2 isnt the concern here- V1 is the point of the decision. From there you will accelerate to V2 and climb. You may not climb enough to clear the mountain but you will find performance critical airports have single engine climb out instructions when there is a mountain at the end of the runway.




Not arguing with you B767driver- just stating for the original poster that each V speed has a reason. It goes back the validity of the original topic.

Personally a mountain at the end of the runway makes me concerned for any takeoff. The departure will depend on each airport and aircraft but either way you will be required to be able to go flying at V1 and safely get out without smacking something big and unforgiving. Lets not split hairs- I think we are both running parallel thought processes on the issue.

You are going to have to show me an airport that has a published (for everyone) one engine inoperative (OEI) procedure for obstacles???

[Foxcow]

Originally Posted by higney85

Ok without getting beyond knee deep think about the basics.

What is V1- what does it ensure?

What is V2- what does it ensure?

Remember the FAA certification requires an aircraft to lose an engine at V1, cross the threshold at 35 feet and accelerate to V2 with a climb gradient to clear obstacles, hence the nonstandard (single engine) climb out instructions for performance critical airports.

Don't just focus on V1, V2. Look at Vr, Vmca, Vmcg. Also look at the stages of the climb.
Start with the basics, then run your answer back by the board. As a mock interview here is your question... I believe its in the FAR's under 25.107 (or at least around there).


Q: Lets say you are taking off a 12,000ft runway. You reach V1 4,000 feet down and rotate (Vr), prior to V2 you lose your #1 engine to a flameout. You are just now lifting off- what do you do? Land or go flying? If you put her back down how much distance will it take? If you go flying what obstacle clearances are guaranteed and at what speed (in relation to Vspeeds) will you climb out at?

In your scenario, I would continue to fly the airplane and deal with it in the air. At the airspeed suggested, Vmcg is not a factor. V1 takes the split second decision making out of the equation for the most part. If we are past V1 already rotating and lose an engine, we are going flying. Pretty much the only thing you are going to abort above V1 would be for something that would prevent the airplane from flying.

My company's engine out profile is as follows:

-maintain directional control (duh)
-rotate at Vr and pitch for V2
-once reaching acceleration height, maintain altitude
-flaps 0 at V2+15
-climb out at Vfs to 1500 AGL and clear of all obstacles.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

You are going to have to show me an airport that has a published (for everyone) one engine inoperative (OEI) procedure for obstacles???

Erm, you don't have special engine out procedures that include obstacle avoidance? I'm pretty sure ours are just for us, but don't other people have that stuff?