Lowest Regional Airline Pilot Salary

[coa787]

Hey, sorry to interrupt you guys, but would anyone know the answer to my previous post. Thanks.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by coa787

Do you need any type of flying experience prior to entering any one of ATP's courses to train to become a pilot? After college, Could I enroll in a course such as the "Regional Jet Standards Certification" course for $6,000 and get hired by a regional carrier?

Prerequisites

• Total Time: Reference Letters of Agreement for Specific Airline Requirements
• Multi Time: Reference Letters of Agreement for Specific Airline Requirements
• Certificates: Commercial with SE, ME, and Instrument Ratings
• First Class Medical Certificate
• Current U.S. Passport
• FCC Restricted Radio Operators Permit
• Education: Reference Letters of Agreement or www.PilotJobs.com for Specific Airline Requirements

right off their web site...

[coa787]

Ok, so I guess you just have to build up the hours by renting aircraft or working as a CFI and acquire the other minimum standards, then take the course and get an interview after you successfully complete it, correct?

[cencal83406]

Don't spend any money anywhere getting RJ certification. If you have a minimum number of hours (which isn't very high right now), your ATP written completed, and an FCC license, you will definately be looked at and probably interviewed for the position. In hindsight, the interview was the easy part. However, the regional carrier of your choice has an FAA obligation to train you, and any guy from a "RJ course", and anyone who has 30000 hours (I know, exaggerating), the SAME thing. It is entirely possible to study in groups and be able to absorb the information just as well as any of the other students and pass the 121 Oral and Checkride. Good luck, don't spend a dime over what you spend for PP/IR/ME/COMM, some time, (and your CFI if you want that) to get hired. I was able to learn everything that people who spent 3 to 4 months learning in the 1 month allotted time. Is it a bit tough? Sure, but you're there to study, so do that and you'll have no problem. You can even spend that $6,000 (or $27K if your JU) downtown drinking, eating, etc....

Personally, I was in the process of starting CFI training (taking the writtens and junk) when my opportunity came along. I'd still love to add ratings to my certificate, but it'll have to wait for a little bit (and even then our company has a "no other commercial flying" section in the FOM)

[cfii2007]

I know quite a few people like you.....total time and multi sufficient for a regional, who don't bother investing in the CFI/CFII/MEI ratings.

I wouldn't recommend obtaining the ratings unless your company allows part time work in that field per their FOM.

[cencal83406]

Originally Posted by cfii2007

I know quite a few people like you.....total time and multi sufficient for a regional, who don't bother investing in the CFI/CFII/MEI ratings.

I wouldn't recommend obtaining the ratings unless your company allows part time work in that field per their FOM.

Yeah, nope, not allowed. But wouldn't hurt to at least get the stuff when I finally have some off time. My other job paid a little more but it was a drag to be on call 24/7/365 to fix computers, in addition to 10+ hour normal M-F workdays. No desire at all to do anything but sit on my ass at home after dealing with that.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by cencal83406

You can even spend that $6,000 (or $27K if your JU) downtown drinking, eating, etc....

I love it when you guys say it more eloquently than I ever could.

Seriously.

My first jet was a 727 that I had to pretty much spend a three hour oral verbally building the jet from the radome all the way back to the FDX-installed Stage-3 noise cans.

No bridge program.

I did alright.

Enjoy your freshman year debt free.

[cencal83406]

Unfortunately, Doug, I'm not 100% debt free... I'm just much more "seasoned" about spending since I've been to Riddle. Since I graduated only about 1.5 years ago I'm sure my bill was a bit higher than yours.

[Snuggle]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

My first jet was a 727

1900 to 727?? I hope I get lucky enough to say that some day.

[jynxyjoe]

Originally Posted by Snuggle

1900 to 727?? I hope I get lucky enough to say that some day.

hey get to champion air before they completely go under get a little jet time.

[Cruise]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Love it how the guys flying for TP outfits try to compare their pay to SKYW for justification. Hate to burst your bubble but its not the same cup of tea.

Again, whatever helps you sleep at night.

I just don't get you man.....what's your deal, anyway?

I've followed many of your post from 'before' you were actually in a 121 environment. Tons of great information. Thanks for that, seriously. However, lately you've it seems to me you've turned towards a negative trend. *At least from what I've been seeing.* Your 'all non-union airlines suck' post, now your 'whatever helps you sleep at night B.S.,' isn't helping our overall cause of improving the industry. Please, go back to the 'old merit,'.......you know the one with good info to share. I <3 him.

And comparing pay rates across the regional industry is 'the same cup of tea.' Care to substantiate your rationale for thinking it isn't? Because from where I'm sitting, I do the same job as someone who is at XJT, SKW, XJ, etc..... We all move people from A to B...some have stops in C, too. hehe So to understand the rates and compare them to each other is relevant, IMO.

I'm really not trying to rip on you.....just trying to understand the new attitude.

So I say to you....please tone it down a bit....unless being an @$$ is what helps YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT!

Save Ferris!

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Don't ever ask for a raise or look back from the left seat wondering why you're being asked to perform a dual cross country with paying passengers onboard.

We'll be listening.

Sorry, but not only do I not respect that move, I greatly disrespect it.

You can disrespect it, but what's wrong with asking for a raise? All of us at our regional airline stand united behind the MEC for contract negotiations.

[Snuggle]

Originally Posted by jynxyjoe

hey get to champion air before they completely go under get a little jet time.

Their going under??

I wouldn't mind sitting sideways in a 727. I think that's actually a good learning experience.

[coa787]

Originally Posted by cencal83406

Don't spend any money anywhere getting RJ certification. If you have a minimum number of hours (which isn't very high right now), your ATP written completed, and an FCC license, you will definately be looked at and probably interviewed for the position. In hindsight, the interview was the easy part. However, the regional carrier of your choice has an FAA obligation to train you, and any guy from a "RJ course", and anyone who has 30000 hours (I know, exaggerating), the SAME thing. It is entirely possible to study in groups and be able to absorb the information just as well as any of the other students and pass the 121 Oral and Checkride. Good luck, don't spend a dime over what you spend for PP/IR/ME/COMM, some time, (and your CFI if you want that) to get hired. I was able to learn everything that people who spent 3 to 4 months learning in the 1 month allotted time. Is it a bit tough? Sure, but you're there to study, so do that and you'll have no problem. You can even spend that $6,000 (or $27K if your JU) downtown drinking, eating, etc....

Personally, I was in the process of starting CFI training (taking the writtens and junk) when my opportunity came along. I'd still love to add ratings to my certificate, but it'll have to wait for a little bit (and even then our company has a "no other commercial flying" section in the FOM)

Are you trying to say that courses like that are a waste of money and time? If you already have your hours and other requirements, then what is the point of having those courses anyway if people could just try to land an interview with a regional carrier?. Aren't regional airlines going to train you anyway once you get hired?

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

You can disrespect it, but what's wrong with asking for a raise? All of us at our regional airline stand united behind the MEC for contract negotiations.

Pretty simple.

Because the company is going to look you straight in the eye and say, "Hey, people are paying us for the privilege to work here. Do you think you're special? If our pay is so low, why did you spend (insert figure here) in order to work for us?"

Come on bro, at least make it a challenging question.

[cencal83406]

Originally Posted by coa787

Are you trying to say that courses like that are a waste of money and time? If you already have your hours and other requirements, then what is the point of having those courses anyway if people could just try to land an interview with a regional carrier?. Aren't regional airlines going to train you anyway once you get hired?

Exactly. Everyone who I've met at 9E who went through JetU thought they wasted their money once they saw how the training here works.... it WORKS. The point of the course is to make money from people who don't do enough research (hey that's what Riddle is for too so I'm not immune). Like I said, I wasn't anything special when I got here, not a guy with thousands of hours, and yet not a guy with a couple hundred and a Jet course, and I managed to get through the training. Yes, they do train us.

With all that being said, the way it looks, from who made it and didn't make it, is, no matter how many hours you have, be willing to soak it all up. My goal is to get the hours without having someone I'm flying with make a snide comment about how many I have. As long as we're flying within company procedure and FARs, I am just going to say "yes sir" to the captain, only if I feel that my safety is being compromised will I speak up.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Pretty simple.

Because the company is going to look you straight in the eye and say, "Hey, people are paying us for the privilege to work here. Do you think you're special? If our pay is so low, why did you spend (insert figure here) in order to work for us?"

Come on bro, at least make it a challenging question.

But Pinnacle doesn't receive a monetary kickback from CAE, AllATPs, and other bridge programs. All they receive are pilots ready to interview.

Your argument sounds like Gulfstream Airlines, and Gulfstream Academy ("pay" to fly 250 hrs in a B1900).

I don't think it applies here.

Pinnacle cannot come to the MEC and say, "these people are paying us for the priviledge to work here" because 'paying us' ended a long time ago. There was a time when regionals like Continental Express and Comair would charge for training and make their pilots pay (so the airline made money), but not anymore.

And also, interestingly, Pinnacle is actually paying new hires:

1. $400/wk in training
2. $750 bonus upon completion of operating experience
3. $ 500 bonus after 6 mos of service

Pinnacle ALPA has filed a lawsuit against Pinnacle regarding these new hire bonuses.

So, no, the airline isn't saying "Hey, people are paying us for the privilege to work here."

I think you're confusing Gulfstream Academy/Airlines with the issue at hand here.

[LoadMasterC141]

Demand, meet Supply; Supply will pay you for the demand. Sounds kinda like a crumbling economic theory eh?

[cencal83406]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

But Pinnacle doesn't receive a monetary kickback from CAE, AllATPs, and other bridge programs. All they receive are pilots ready to interview.

Your argument sounds like Gulfstream Airlines, and Gulfstream Academy ("pay" to fly 250 hrs in a B1900).

I don't think it applies here.

Pinnacle cannot come to the MEC and say, "these people are paying us for the priviledge to work here" because 'paying us' ended a long time ago. There was a time when regionals like Continental Express and Comair would charge for training and make their pilots pay (so the airline made money), but not anymore.

And also, interestingly, Pinnacle is actually paying new hires:

1. $400/wk in training
2. $750 bonus upon completion of operating experience
3. $ 500 bonus after 6 mos of service

Pinnacle ALPA has filed a lawsuit against Pinnacle regarding these new hire bonuses.

So, no, the airline isn't saying "Hey, people are paying us for the privilege to work here."

I think you're confusing Gulfstream Academy/Airlines with the issue at hand here.

Hate to burst your bubble, but I've definitely heard that Pinnacle gets some money for each grad. Also, the bonus program may be gone because the Union sued to stop that.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

But Pinnacle doesn't receive a monetary kickback from CAE, AllATPs, and other bridge programs. All they receive are pilots ready to interview.

Your argument sounds like Gulfstream Airlines, and Gulfstream Academy ("pay" to fly 250 hrs in a B1900).

I don't think it applies here.

Pinnacle cannot come to the MEC and say, "these people are paying us for the priviledge to work here" because 'paying us' ended a long time ago. There was a time when regionals like Continental Express and Comair would charge for training and make their pilots pay (so the airline made money), but not anymore.

And also, interestingly, Pinnacle is actually paying new hires:

1. $400/wk in training
2. $750 bonus upon completion of operating experience
3. $ 500 bonus after 6 mos of service

Pinnacle ALPA has filed a lawsuit against Pinnacle regarding these new hire bonuses.

So, no, the airline isn't saying "Hey, people are paying us for the privilege to work here."

I think you're confusing Gulfstream Academy/Airlines with the issue at hand here.

Dude. By all means, I wasn't born yesterday.

I appreciate the defense of the choice, but you asked the question, I gave you the answer they're going to give you.

Seriously, you don't require my approval, but...

Hold on, lemme take the gloves off for a second...

You made one of the top-five dumbest non safety-related decisions in the history of professional aviation. Airlines are currently paying for you to get up to speed, but you're going to pay a third party? ARRRooOoOOOO?! McFly? Are you there? Hello?!

I just wouldn't have slept well without making that clear. Have a great day!

JetU? Oh lord, what a joke.

[zmiller4]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

You can disrespect it, but what's wrong with asking for a raise?

Aside from the safety issue, the biggest problem I have with super-low-time guys at airlines is the power that they give to management.

They know that you are lucky to be there rather than having to build your experience. How is your pilot group going to ask for raises when, quite frankly, these low-time new-hires aren't really worth much more than they're already getting? Seriously, experience should equal pay. If your first job as a pilot is in an airliner (I just threw up in my mouth) you have *zero* ground to ask for more money.

[cencal83406]

Originally Posted by zmiller4

Aside from the safety issue, the biggest problem I have with super-low-time guys at airlines is the power that they give to management.

They know that you are lucky to be there rather than having to build your experience. How is your pilot group going to ask for raises when, quite frankly, these low-time new-hires aren't really worth much more than they're already getting? Seriously, experience should equal pay. If your first job as a pilot is in an airliner (I just threw up in my mouth) you have *zero* ground to ask for more money.

However, given the fact that even the legit training routes can cost some cash, there is no reason on this earth that any pilot should make less than $30,000 a year period. We also negotiate as a group, so therefore we should quit making excuses and blaming people for hiring us (hey, I just sent an application in with no idea they'd ACTUALLY consider me), and get paid what we're worth based on what sort of training goes into doing this sort of job more than experience. Like I said earlier, I had no training OR experience in my previous field, but I received more than double my starting salary for this regional.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Dude. By all means, I wasn't born yesterday.

I appreciate the defense of the choice, but you asked the question, I gave you the answer they're going to give you.

Seriously, you don't require my approval, but...

Hold on, lemme take the gloves off for a second...

You made one of the top-five dumbest non safety-related decisions in the history of professional aviation. Airlines are currently paying for you to get up to speed, but you're going to pay a third party? ARRRooOoOOOO?! McFly? Are you there? Hello?!

I just wouldn't have slept well without making that clear. Have a great day!

JetU? Oh lord, what a joke.

Point taken.

As far as cost goes, if I went a different route, I would have still had to spend money on the Commercial-Single engine, CFI initial, CFI instrument, and MEI. So either way, I would still have had to spent some serious $$$$$$$$.

If your first job as a pilot is in an airliner (I just threw up in my mouth) you have *zero* ground to ask for more money.

.... which has happened before with legacy carriers hiring low timers straight into the side panel (back in the day). Those pilots would spend a few years sitting sideways, and then upgrade to FO. Across the world, airlines have ab-initio training programs where in some of them, the candidates actually have to pay a decent portion for their own training. In others, the airline foots the bill. Either way, their payscales (for the equipment) STILL put the US airlines to shame.

You can't blame low salaries at regionals (and the 'lack' of ability to get higher salaries at regionals) all because of bridge program graduates. ASA fought long and hard in their 5 yr struggle for a new contract. We're pushing 3 yrs now on ours. This has nothing to do with bridge programs. Our management knows that we are the cheapest paid $$$ CRJ pilots in the country. And our management also knows the NMB won't be releasing us any time soon. So, they have no interest in wanting to proceed with and finish negotiations. They will stall as long as they can.

Bridge programs make up a very select few group in todays market. Pinnacle is hurting left and right to find enough pilots. They want many more pilots than they are getting (from any route, CFI, bridge program, etc).

[mastermags]

Originally Posted by zmiller4

If your first job as a pilot is in an airliner (I just threw up in my mouth) you have *zero* ground to ask for more money.

Why?