Good grief!?!?!?

TripleSticks · December 29th, 2007, 00:53

Good Grief..... Now I have to worry about my spare headset batteries getting thrown away when I airline to my job site. I can't imagine that AAA batteries short out all the time in peoples luggage. sigh... Longer lines at security.

Baggage ban on batteries begins (AP)

WASHINGTON - To help reduce the risk of fires, air travelers will no longer be able to pack loose lithium batteries in checked luggage beginning Jan. 1, the Transportation Department said Friday.

Passengers can still check baggage with lithium batteries if they are installed in electronic devices, such as cameras, cell phones and laptop computers. If packed in plastic bags, batteries may be in carryon baggage. The limit is two batteries per passenger.

The ban affects shipments of non-rechargeable lithium batteries, such as those made by Energizer Holdings Inc. and Procter & Gamble Co.'s Duracell brand.

"Doing something as simple as keeping a spare battery in its original retail packaging or a plastic zip-lock bag will prevent unintentional short-circuiting and fires," Krista Edwards, deputy administrator of the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, said in a release.

The Federal Aviation Administration has found that fire-protection systems in the cargo hold of passenger planes can't put out fires sparked in lithium batteries.

The National Transportation Safety Board earlier this month said it could not rule out lithium batteries as the source of a cargo plane fire at Philadelphia International Airport last year

wildfreightess · December 29th, 2007, 00:59

I've discovered the severity of dirty looks I get when I head to the front of the security line is directly proportional to the length of the line. Looks like more "constipation faces" aimed at my direction.

coa787 · December 29th, 2007, 01:21

How would loose batteries start fires?

Maximillian_Jenius · December 29th, 2007, 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by coa787

How would loose batteries start fires?

How does water, lotion and other liquids, make up etc bring down a plane.

One question at a time please!

coa787 · December 29th, 2007, 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

How does water, lotion and other liquids, make up etc bring down a plane.

One question at a time please!

I did ask one question.

Maximillian_Jenius · December 29th, 2007, 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by coa787

I did ask one question.

You're new here, I was being sarcastic!

coa787 · December 29th, 2007, 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

You're new here, I was being sarcastic!

Ok. Perhaps the 'Sarcasm' smilie would've helped. My mind is not quick at these hours.

aloft · December 29th, 2007, 02:53

That's ridiculous. I use lithium batteries in all my electronic gear--ANR headset, GPS, flashlights--and I carry spares for all of them.

Captain_Bob · December 29th, 2007, 03:13

It's only for "checked bags" guys... just put 'em in your carry-on bags...

Bob

juxtapilot · December 29th, 2007, 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Bob

It's only for "checked bags" guys... just put 'em in your carry-on bags...

Bob

Maybe its just a typo... I don't know...

Quote:

New US DOT Hazmat Safety Rule to Place Lithium Battery Limits in Carry-on Baggage on Passenger Aircraft Effective January 1, 2008
Passengers will no longer be able to pack loose lithium batteries in checked luggage beginning January 1, 2008 once new federal safety rules take effect. The new regulation, designed to reduce the risk of lithium battery fires, will continue to allow lithium batteries in checked baggage if they are installed in electronic devices, or in carry-on baggage if stored in plastic bags.
Common consumer electronics such as travel cameras, cell phones, and most laptop computers are still allowed in carry-on and checked luggage. However, the rule limits individuals to bringing only two extended-life spare rechargeable lithium batteries (see attached illustration), such as laptop and professional audio/video/camera equipment lithium batteries in carry-on baggage.
"Doing something as simple as keeping a spare battery in its original retail packaging or a plastic zip-lock bag will prevent unintentional short-circuiting and fires," said Krista Edwards, Deputy Administrator of the U.S. Department of Transportation's Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration.
Lithium batteries are considered hazardous materials because they can overheat and ignite in certain conditions. Safety testing conducted by the FAA found that current aircraft cargo fire suppression system would not be capable of suppressing a fire if a shipment of non-rechargeable lithium batteries were ignited in flight.

Kristie · December 29th, 2007, 03:39

Quote:

"Doing something as simple as keeping a spare battery in its original retail packaging or a plastic zip-lock bag will prevent unintentional short-circuiting and fires,"

and a plastic zip lock bag is going to help reduce the percentage of it catching on fire? please....if the battery is hot enough to start a fire, the plastic is going to melt to the stupid thing and it'll help heat the fire...

what the hell?! when has a lithium battery started a fire on a plane anytime recently??

so now you have to fit your extra laptop battery into a plastic zip lock bag? this is just absurd.

Maximillian_Jenius · December 29th, 2007, 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristie

and a plastic zip lock bag is going to help reduce the percentage of it catching on fire? please....if the battery is hot enough to start a fire, the plastic is going to melt to the stupid thing and it'll help heat the fire...

what the hell?! when has a lithium battery started a fire on a plane anytime recently??

so now you have to fit your extra laptop battery into a plastic zip lock bag? this is just absurd.

Hey, hey, hey...stop questioning their infinate wisdom! They're single handely keeping us all safe when we fly.

No, terrorist attacks on US soil since 9/11, all praise be to the TSA!

rjmore · December 29th, 2007, 04:00

I seem to remember not too long ago there was a recall due to lithium batteries shorting out and burning up. The plastic bag is to prevent the contacts on the battery from coming in contact with either another battery and/or a piece of metal. Believe it or not, it is a real threat to have batteries bumping into one another. All batteries can have certain issues, remember thermal runaway is a potential emergency situation in an airplane with NiCad batteries.

We have a drill we run where we get a cargo fire and have to get the aircraft on the ground and evacuated in 19 minutes or less. The reason for the time constraint is that it is the longest any airliner has survived a real cargo fire. On the ground or in the air no one has made it past 19 minutes until the aircraft was consumed in fire. For me, if the experts in the field say that my fire supression system can't even fight the fire caused by lithium batteries then I say get 'em out of there or take extra precautions.

People in this world are starving and dying and all we have to complain about is not being able to take more than 2 spare batteries for our toys. I somehow think we will all live.

rjmore · December 29th, 2007, 04:14

More info.....
This is not a TSA issue, it is DOT, FAA, NTSB, and ALPA.

By Peter Eisler and Alan Levin, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — A rash of fires on planes has spurred the government to plan new restrictions on how airline passengers may carry lithium batteries used to power laptop computers and cellphones.
The Department of Transportation, which already bars bulk shipments of some lithium batteries on passenger planes, expects to propose more restrictions later this year, said Bob Richard of the DOT's Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration.
While the agency has no immediate plans to ban the batteries from carry-on luggage, he said, the risks of batteries in airplane cabins are being studied. Restrictions on carrying the batteries in checked items are possible, Richard said.
"We recognize that the American public wants to be able to carry their batteries and electronic equipment aboard aircraft, but we have to weigh the safety issues," he said. "Any fire aboard an aircraft is unacceptable."
Fire safety officials, airline pilots and consumer groups are pushing for new rules on the batteries. At least nine fires involving lithium batteries have happened on airplanes or in cargo destined for planes since 2005, according to federal safety records reviewed by USA TODAY. None of the fires caused serious injuries.
Until new rules are in place, Richard said, his agency and the Federal Aviation Administration are asking companies that make and ship the batteries to take voluntary steps to ease fire risks. The agencies also will launch a safety awareness campaign for passengers.
FIND MORE STORIES IN: National Transportation Safety Board | Safety | UPS | Philadelphia International Airport | Batteries
Lithium batteries come in two types: lithium metal, which are single-use, and lithium-ion, which can be recharged. Both store energy that generates intense heat during a short circuit. A short can occur if metal touches both terminals or if internal seals fail.
Some low-cost or counterfeit batteries lack safeguards against short circuits, and manufacturing defects have rendered such protections useless in others. In the last year, more than 4 million lithium batteries have been recalled for such problems.
Battery industry representatives acknowledge that new cargo restrictions may be needed. They also have agreed to set voluntary standards on packaging and labeling shipments. But they see no need to bar laptops or other devices on planes.
"Bringing these onto an aircraft doesn't present any additional danger, provided you take care of your batteries," said George Kerchner, head of the Portable Rechargeable Battery Association.
Bulk shipments of lithium metal batteries were banned on passenger flights in 2004, in part because fires in those batteries are especially hard to put out. But the Air Line Pilots Association, the largest pilots union, wants cargo flights included in the ban, too.
The National Association of State Fire Marshals says bulk transport of lithium-ion batteries also should be restricted, particularly on passenger flights. But Maine State Fire Marshal John Dean, president of the association, said the question of whether to ban the rechargeable batteries in carry-on items needs more study.
A battery fire in a carry-on bag would be more easily detected and controlled by crew, Dean said. And, given the popularity of laptops and cellphones, banning them in carry-ons would be difficult.
Regulators "are caught in the middle," Dean said. "But if you think about being on a passenger plane and one of these catches fire — even if the crew can control it, that's a bad situation with all the smoke."
Plane is bad place for bad battery
Smoke began wafting from a passenger's laptop about 15 minutes before a United Airlines jet was to depart from Los Angeles last September.
Passengers on a Lufthansa jet about to leave Chicago in May noticed smoke coming from an overhead bin in first class.
Last November, a U.S. Customs and Border Protection agent in Los Angeles pulled some cellphone batteries out of a cargo flight from China for inspection. One of the batteries burst into flames on a desk, spewing fire, sparks and smoke.
In each incident, documented in a list kept by the Federal Aviation Administration, fires erupted in lithium batteries. No planes crashed, and injuries were minor, but the fires are prompting a new look at safety standards for the batteries and whether they should be allowed on flights.
According to government and industry officials, the world's insatiable demand for more power is clashing with safety needs on aircraft.
"It is a critical safety issue," said Bernard Loeb, a former chief aviation accident investigator at the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). "Any event that involves the potential for fire on an airplane is very serious."
Two major crashes in recent years — ValuJet Flight 592 in 1996 and SwissAir Flight 111 in 1998 — were caused by fires. Neither of those fires involved lithium batteries, however.
Lithium batteries have revolutionized electronics. Tiny cellphones equipped with cameras or music players would not be possible without the wafer-size lithium-ion rechargeable battery that powers them. Sophisticated medical devices depend on long-lived lithium metal batteries.
"Any device that you've bought in the past five years that makes it possible to work on the road, that's powered by lithium-ion," says George Kerchner, executive director of the Portable Rechargeable Battery Association.
The growing energy stored in the small batteries also creates a hazard. If the batteries short-circuit, they can produce intense heat, and most of the batteries contain flammable chemicals.
Reputable manufacturers submit to testing and safety standards set by groups such as the non-profit Underwriters Laboratories. These standards require that batteries contain built-in protections against overheating and fire, said John Drengenberg, consumer affairs manager at Underwriters Laboratories. The safety standards, however, are not required by law, and some manufacturers simply ignore them, according to Drengenberg and Kerchner.
Responding to fire incidents, the testing group expects to issue tougher standards for lithium-ion batteries this spring, Drengenberg said.
The potential for lithium batteries to ignite was first raised as a safety issue in 1999, when fire broke out in Los Angeles in a load of 120,000 lithium batteries that had just arrived aboard a Northwest Airlines flight from Japan.
Northwest employees doused the batteries with a fire hose, but each time they thought they had extinguished the fire, it flared up again, the NTSB said.
"The safety board has a long-standing concern about the risks associated with fires on aircraft, especially fires involving hazardous materials," said Debbie Hersman, an NTSB board member. Hersman chaired a hearing last year on a fire that destroyed a UPS jet in Philadelphia. Investigators have not identified the cause of the fire but found charred laptops near where the fire erupted.
Batteries are not covered under the United Nations rules governing hazardous shipments around the world. Unlike other chemicals, which must be specially packaged and labeled, batteries have no such requirements. The U.N. is considering bringing batteries under hazardous-goods rules, but the proposed change would not take effect until 2009.
The U.S. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, which petitioned the U.N. to make the change, barred bulk shipments of lithium metal batteries on passenger flights in 2004.
The number of fire incidents involving lithium batteries on planes or in cargo and baggage destined for planes is relatively small: 15 documented cases since 2000 out of about 75 million flights during that period.
Battery industry officials say some incidents may be due to unsafe counterfeit batteries that aren't built with safety mechanisms. "A properly built and properly packaged battery carries very little risk or no risk at all," Kerchner said.

flyover · December 29th, 2007, 07:33

This has been coming for a year or more. I'm surprised it took this long.

These rechargable lithium batteries can produce fires that can't be extinguished. The implications on an airplane are obvious. There have already been a number of house fires and other incidents attributed to these batteries.

It sounds like they did a pretty good job of finding a middle ground as there were some who advocated an outright ban. This solution shouldn't cause any big problems and at least shows some recognition of the problem. If there is a serious onboard fire after this it could lead to further restrictions.

surreal1221 · December 29th, 2007, 07:33

bahahah!

The Zip-Lock/Lok / Plastic Bag industry is enjoying this ####.

What a friggin joke. This country, of all places, is being relegated to carrying your stuff around in PLASTIC BAGS.

mikecweb · December 29th, 2007, 08:05

Pretty good idea actually.
The whole idea is prevention. As ridiculous has some of these ideas sound, do they really alter your lifestyle that much?

SpiraMirabilis · December 29th, 2007, 09:59

plastic is not conductive. therefore keeping batteries in plastic bag eliminates potential for other potentially conductive items in the luggage to touch the contacts and therefore potentially create a short and start a fire. I dont know why people are deriding this.

RightSeatGirl · December 29th, 2007, 10:02

I can't think of a more appropriate time to post a link to this oldie but goodie skit:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...elID=135443834

No idea who the myspace guy is, it's the only place I could find the skit...

TripleSticks · December 29th, 2007, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by surreal1221

bahahah!

The Zip-Lock/Lok / Plastic Bag industry is enjoying this ####.

What a friggin joke. This country, of all places, is being relegated to carrying your stuff around in PLASTIC BAGS.

This is a good call.... I was gonna say that we should all go buy more stock in SC Johnson & Sons (the makers of Zip Lock bags) but their a private company. Rats... Another get rich scheme foiled.

3green · December 29th, 2007, 10:15

Not sure if this answers the "why" question, but I had a friend in the USMC tell me a while back that lithium's explode when they come in contact with water. Hence, they would wrap their lithium radio batteries in plastic before river crossings or coming into contact with water. Since then I've had my spare lithium batteries in ziplocks.

surreal1221 · December 29th, 2007, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Pretty good idea actually.
The whole idea is prevention. As ridiculous has some of these ideas sound, do they really alter your lifestyle that much?

Since you didn't quote anyone, I'm not sure if the question is directed towards me or not.

Nevertheless, I never made a comment about this being a bad or good idea. I also didn't make any comment about it altering my lifestyle.

What I did say though, is that the plastic bag industry is loving this stuff, and that I see at some point, EVERYTHING in our luggage will have to eventually fit into a respectable sized plastic bag for whatever item.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnt1969

This is a good call.... I was gonna say that we should all go buy more stock in SC Johnson & Sons (the makers of Zip Lock bags) but their a private company. Rats... Another get rich scheme foiled.

Yup, just our damn luck.

TSA and SC Johnson and Sons are in bed together, building MILLIONS on the backs of travelers in this country!

Captain_Bob · December 29th, 2007, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Bob

It's only for "checked bags" guys... just put 'em in your carry-on bags...

Bob

Quote:

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

Maybe its just a typo... I don't know...

I stand by what I said... only reverse it.

It was 2:30 am... I should have been asleep.

Bob

mikecweb · December 29th, 2007, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Since you didn't quote anyone, I'm not sure if the question is directed towards me or not.

Nevertheless, I never made a comment about this being a bad or good idea. I also didn't make any comment about it altering my lifestyle.

It was a general question being thrown out there. As you stated, if I was asking you I would have quoted your post and or used your name to start the question.

SlantG · December 29th, 2007, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildfreightess

I've discovered the severity of dirty looks I get when I head to the front of the security line is directly proportional to the length of the line. Looks like more "constipation faces" aimed at my direction.

You take the time to notice?

I'm no longer amazed that Mom and her three screaming brats still can't figure out that the liquids ban does apply to them, even little Johhny has to take his shoes and jacket off, the electronic devices have to go into their own special plastic bin, and yes, little Pedro has to go through secondary screening despite their arguments to the contrary. I mean, c'mon, Oprah, Donahue, Monty, and Guiding Light have covered this multiple times.

However, our enemy is perfectly willing to sacrifice little Ahmed and Johnny, Grandma, Grandpa, and won't stop until everyone of them or us are dead, thus to get the job done, I will cut in line while agreeing completely that it is rude. It's not the worst thing the airline pilot job requires of us.

December 29th, 2007, 00:53	#1
TripleSticks Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 252	Good grief!?!?!? Good Grief..... Now I have to worry about my spare headset batteries getting thrown away when I airline to my job site. I can't imagine that AAA batteries short out all the time in peoples luggage. sigh... Longer lines at security. Baggage ban on batteries begins (AP) WASHINGTON - To help reduce the risk of fires, air travelers will no longer be able to pack loose lithium batteries in checked luggage beginning Jan. 1, the Transportation Department said Friday. Passengers can still check baggage with lithium batteries if they are installed in electronic devices, such as cameras, cell phones and laptop computers. If packed in plastic bags, batteries may be in carryon baggage. The limit is two batteries per passenger. The ban affects shipments of non-rechargeable lithium batteries, such as those made by Energizer Holdings Inc. and Procter & Gamble Co.'s Duracell brand. "Doing something as simple as keeping a spare battery in its original retail packaging or a plastic zip-lock bag will prevent unintentional short-circuiting and fires," Krista Edwards, deputy administrator of the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, said in a release. The Federal Aviation Administration has found that fire-protection systems in the cargo hold of passenger planes can't put out fires sparked in lithium batteries. The National Transportation Safety Board earlier this month said it could not rule out lithium batteries as the source of a cargo plane fire at Philadelphia International Airport last year __________________ Chuck Norris does not hunt because hunting implies the possibility of failure. Chuck Norris goes killing.

December 29th, 2007, 00:59	#2
wildfreightess Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Jefferson City Posts: 501	Re: Good grief!?!?!? I've discovered the severity of dirty looks I get when I head to the front of the security line is directly proportional to the length of the line. Looks like more "constipation faces" aimed at my direction. __________________ "It's so much fun to be black." - mtsu_av8er

December 29th, 2007, 01:21	#3
coa787 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,030	Re: Good grief!?!?!? How would loose batteries start fires?

December 29th, 2007, 02:53	#8
aloft Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Inside your OODA loop Posts: 6,737	Re: Good grief!?!?!? That's ridiculous. I use lithium batteries in all my electronic gear--ANR headset, GPS, flashlights--and I carry spares for all of them. __________________ Commercial Pilot, ASEL/AMEL/IA Chief Pilot, aerial mapping company Mountain-qualified Search & Rescue/Disaster Relief Mission Pilot, Civil Air Patrol 900+ TT/25 ME B.S., Psychology, University of Utah

December 29th, 2007, 03:13	#9
Captain_Bob Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: DFW, based in ONT, wishing I was in Maine Posts: 3,853	Re: Good grief!?!?!? It's only for "checked bags" guys... just put 'em in your carry-on bags... Bob __________________ My head is in the clouds and my heart is still in Maine... but my devotion and love belong to my wife and children. Pics!

December 29th, 2007, 04:00	#13
rjmore Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 248	Re: Good grief!?!?!? I seem to remember not too long ago there was a recall due to lithium batteries shorting out and burning up. The plastic bag is to prevent the contacts on the battery from coming in contact with either another battery and/or a piece of metal. Believe it or not, it is a real threat to have batteries bumping into one another. All batteries can have certain issues, remember thermal runaway is a potential emergency situation in an airplane with NiCad batteries. We have a drill we run where we get a cargo fire and have to get the aircraft on the ground and evacuated in 19 minutes or less. The reason for the time constraint is that it is the longest any airliner has survived a real cargo fire. On the ground or in the air no one has made it past 19 minutes until the aircraft was consumed in fire. For me, if the experts in the field say that my fire supression system can't even fight the fire caused by lithium batteries then I say get 'em out of there or take extra precautions. People in this world are starving and dying and all we have to complain about is not being able to take more than 2 spare batteries for our toys. I somehow think we will all live.

December 29th, 2007, 04:14	#14
rjmore Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 248	Re: Good grief!?!?!? More info..... This is not a TSA issue, it is DOT, FAA, NTSB, and ALPA. By Peter Eisler and Alan Levin, USA TODAY WASHINGTON — A rash of fires on planes has spurred the government to plan new restrictions on how airline passengers may carry lithium batteries used to power laptop computers and cellphones. The Department of Transportation, which already bars bulk shipments of some lithium batteries on passenger planes, expects to propose more restrictions later this year, said Bob Richard of the DOT's Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration. While the agency has no immediate plans to ban the batteries from carry-on luggage, he said, the risks of batteries in airplane cabins are being studied. Restrictions on carrying the batteries in checked items are possible, Richard said. "We recognize that the American public wants to be able to carry their batteries and electronic equipment aboard aircraft, but we have to weigh the safety issues," he said. "Any fire aboard an aircraft is unacceptable." Fire safety officials, airline pilots and consumer groups are pushing for new rules on the batteries. At least nine fires involving lithium batteries have happened on airplanes or in cargo destined for planes since 2005, according to federal safety records reviewed by USA TODAY. None of the fires caused serious injuries. Until new rules are in place, Richard said, his agency and the Federal Aviation Administration are asking companies that make and ship the batteries to take voluntary steps to ease fire risks. The agencies also will launch a safety awareness campaign for passengers. FIND MORE STORIES IN: National Transportation Safety Board \| Safety \| UPS \| Philadelphia International Airport \| Batteries Lithium batteries come in two types: lithium metal, which are single-use, and lithium-ion, which can be recharged. Both store energy that generates intense heat during a short circuit. A short can occur if metal touches both terminals or if internal seals fail. Some low-cost or counterfeit batteries lack safeguards against short circuits, and manufacturing defects have rendered such protections useless in others. In the last year, more than 4 million lithium batteries have been recalled for such problems. Battery industry representatives acknowledge that new cargo restrictions may be needed. They also have agreed to set voluntary standards on packaging and labeling shipments. But they see no need to bar laptops or other devices on planes. "Bringing these onto an aircraft doesn't present any additional danger, provided you take care of your batteries," said George Kerchner, head of the Portable Rechargeable Battery Association. Bulk shipments of lithium metal batteries were banned on passenger flights in 2004, in part because fires in those batteries are especially hard to put out. But the Air Line Pilots Association, the largest pilots union, wants cargo flights included in the ban, too. The National Association of State Fire Marshals says bulk transport of lithium-ion batteries also should be restricted, particularly on passenger flights. But Maine State Fire Marshal John Dean, president of the association, said the question of whether to ban the rechargeable batteries in carry-on items needs more study. A battery fire in a carry-on bag would be more easily detected and controlled by crew, Dean said. And, given the popularity of laptops and cellphones, banning them in carry-ons would be difficult. Regulators "are caught in the middle," Dean said. "But if you think about being on a passenger plane and one of these catches fire — even if the crew can control it, that's a bad situation with all the smoke." Plane is bad place for bad battery Smoke began wafting from a passenger's laptop about 15 minutes before a United Airlines jet was to depart from Los Angeles last September. Passengers on a Lufthansa jet about to leave Chicago in May noticed smoke coming from an overhead bin in first class. Last November, a U.S. Customs and Border Protection agent in Los Angeles pulled some cellphone batteries out of a cargo flight from China for inspection. One of the batteries burst into flames on a desk, spewing fire, sparks and smoke. In each incident, documented in a list kept by the Federal Aviation Administration, fires erupted in lithium batteries. No planes crashed, and injuries were minor, but the fires are prompting a new look at safety standards for the batteries and whether they should be allowed on flights. According to government and industry officials, the world's insatiable demand for more power is clashing with safety needs on aircraft. "It is a critical safety issue," said Bernard Loeb, a former chief aviation accident investigator at the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). "Any event that involves the potential for fire on an airplane is very serious." Two major crashes in recent years — ValuJet Flight 592 in 1996 and SwissAir Flight 111 in 1998 — were caused by fires. Neither of those fires involved lithium batteries, however. Lithium batteries have revolutionized electronics. Tiny cellphones equipped with cameras or music players would not be possible without the wafer-size lithium-ion rechargeable battery that powers them. Sophisticated medical devices depend on long-lived lithium metal batteries. "Any device that you've bought in the past five years that makes it possible to work on the road, that's powered by lithium-ion," says George Kerchner, executive director of the Portable Rechargeable Battery Association. The growing energy stored in the small batteries also creates a hazard. If the batteries short-circuit, they can produce intense heat, and most of the batteries contain flammable chemicals. Reputable manufacturers submit to testing and safety standards set by groups such as the non-profit Underwriters Laboratories. These standards require that batteries contain built-in protections against overheating and fire, said John Drengenberg, consumer affairs manager at Underwriters Laboratories. The safety standards, however, are not required by law, and some manufacturers simply ignore them, according to Drengenberg and Kerchner. Responding to fire incidents, the testing group expects to issue tougher standards for lithium-ion batteries this spring, Drengenberg said. The potential for lithium batteries to ignite was first raised as a safety issue in 1999, when fire broke out in Los Angeles in a load of 120,000 lithium batteries that had just arrived aboard a Northwest Airlines flight from Japan. Northwest employees doused the batteries with a fire hose, but each time they thought they had extinguished the fire, it flared up again, the NTSB said. "The safety board has a long-standing concern about the risks associated with fires on aircraft, especially fires involving hazardous materials," said Debbie Hersman, an NTSB board member. Hersman chaired a hearing last year on a fire that destroyed a UPS jet in Philadelphia. Investigators have not identified the cause of the fire but found charred laptops near where the fire erupted. Batteries are not covered under the United Nations rules governing hazardous shipments around the world. Unlike other chemicals, which must be specially packaged and labeled, batteries have no such requirements. The U.N. is considering bringing batteries under hazardous-goods rules, but the proposed change would not take effect until 2009. The U.S. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, which petitioned the U.N. to make the change, barred bulk shipments of lithium metal batteries on passenger flights in 2004. The number of fire incidents involving lithium batteries on planes or in cargo and baggage destined for planes is relatively small: 15 documented cases since 2000 out of about 75 million flights during that period. Battery industry officials say some incidents may be due to unsafe counterfeit batteries that aren't built with safety mechanisms. "A properly built and properly packaged battery carries very little risk or no risk at all," Kerchner said. Last edited by rjmore; December 29th, 2007 at 04:15. Reason: additional info

December 29th, 2007, 07:33	#15
flyover Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,389	Re: Good grief!?!?!? This has been coming for a year or more. I'm surprised it took this long. These rechargable lithium batteries can produce fires that can't be extinguished. The implications on an airplane are obvious. There have already been a number of house fires and other incidents attributed to these batteries. It sounds like they did a pretty good job of finding a middle ground as there were some who advocated an outright ban. This solution shouldn't cause any big problems and at least shows some recognition of the problem. If there is a serious onboard fire after this it could lead to further restrictions. __________________ Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right. — Henry Ford

December 29th, 2007, 07:33	#16
surreal1221 Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Alpha Tango Lima Posts: 8,818	Re: Good grief!?!?!? bahahah! The Zip-Lock/Lok / Plastic Bag industry is enjoying this ####. What a friggin joke. This country, of all places, is being relegated to carrying your stuff around in PLASTIC BAGS. __________________ AGI.MEI.CFI.CFII.FO.CRJ2 \| Josh \| The TRoP \| Rmble On \| ALPA \|

December 29th, 2007, 09:59	#18
SpiraMirabilis Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,149	Re: Good grief!?!?!? plastic is not conductive. therefore keeping batteries in plastic bag eliminates potential for other potentially conductive items in the luggage to touch the contacts and therefore potentially create a short and start a fire. I dont know why people are deriding this. __________________ Yet Another Turboprop FO*

December 29th, 2007, 10:02	#19
RightSeatGirl Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Forever in search of the perfect Beer! Posts: 411	Re: Good grief!?!?!? I can't think of a more appropriate time to post a link to this oldie but goodie skit: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...elID=135443834 No idea who the myspace guy is, it's the only place I could find the skit... __________________ Having a very very hard time to find anything to give a crap about these days.....( only as far as Mexican Beer goes that is..)

December 29th, 2007, 10:15	#21
3green Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: wish it was Oz, unfortunately its the airport Posts: 145	Re: Good grief!?!?!? Not sure if this answers the "why" question, but I had a friend in the USMC tell me a while back that lithium's explode when they come in contact with water. Hence, they would wrap their lithium radio batteries in plastic before river crossings or coming into contact with water. Since then I've had my spare lithium batteries in ziplocks.