Big Sky guys...

[Snuggle]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

It's all what you make it, my man! It can be perfect, or it can be "OK", or it can suck royally. It all depends on what you decide when you wake up in the morning!

Every paycheck a fortune, every meal a feast, every walk-around a parade!

Unfortunately, it is now "cool" to be unhappy, so that's what people do.

It's sad.

Interesting views. I was recently pretty upset with the info of my base closing. I flew with one our captains here who gave me some similar advice. He told me a little about his background and what kind of jobs he's hand in the past. It really made me appreciate the job I do now and put things into perspective. I know we all have complaints and I respect the decisions people make to better their QOL, but sometimes the complaining really does get annoying. Like I stated earlier, a bad attitude will stay with you no matter who you work for. It really is what you make of it.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

Question:
If you go on and on about how Colgan is a miserable place to work, why draw Big Sky guys in? Why not let others at "better" (highly subjective, but I can't think of a better word) regionals help out???

I don't know if that was directed at me, but you'll never see me refer anyone to Colgan unless they are begging me to come work here. I've already aired my thoughts on this place. Others have different views/opinoins about working here and there is nothing wrong with that. Me personally, I don't like the overall working conditions and treatment from the company. When I bid and am awarded say 12 days off in a month, I expect that I get those 12 days off a month. Not called while on duty and drafted for my off days in West Va. with no rental car and hotel.

Misery loves company, I believe that, but thats not the case at all with me. It just amazes me some of the stuff Colgan gets away with and how they treat their employees. If me being honest and airing out the laundry deters someone from coming here, then good.

On the other hand, if fellow pilots are thrown out on the street, well then Colgan is better than no job. Its like a box of chocolates, you never know what you'll get. I would suggest Big Sky pilots look at a place like Mesaba or one of the better companies out there. Thats just my opinion.

But Seggy offering to help guys out, thats noble and being a stand up guy. For Seggy, Colgan isn't that miserable, but his perception isn't the same as everyones. I think he's doing a good thing by offering to walk resumes in. I would do it too if someone *really* wanted to work here.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by Snuggle

Interesting views. I was recently pretty upset with the info of my base closing. I flew with one our captains here who gave me some similar advice. He told me a little about his background and what kind of jobs he's hand in the past. It really made me appreciate the job I do now and put things into perspective. I know we all have complaints and I respect the decisions people make to better their QOL but sometimes the complaining really does get annoying. Like I stated earlier, a bad attitude will stay with you no matter who you work for. It really is what you make of it.

Indeed, perspective makes a difference.

I flew with a Captain last week, and he started complaining about how much his quality of life went down when our company closed the Orlando base and he now has to commute. In his words, "They completely changed my life". He said that it was miserable.

My answer? 'When are you quitting?". He didn't know how to answer that. Every time he whined about something, I'd ask him when he was quitting. He soon stopped whining and simply shut the F- up. I refuse to be in the cockpit with somebody that whines the whole time. NOT gonna happen. If commuting is that bad to him, he should just not commute.

There is a huge difference between saying, "This isn't cool . . . we really need to fix this" and saying, "This place sucks . . . management sucks . . . would you believe what they did to me this month?? . . . ", etc etc. If you wanna fix things, then fix them. But, I don't wanna hear your sad stories of woe.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by Snuggle

Like I stated earlier, a bad attitude will stay with you no matter who you work for. It really is what you make of it.

See I've had my moments working here, and even shared some of them here in the heat of the moment. But you can ask Seggy, I've flown with the guy a lot here, I would hardly say I'm miserable on the job. We have fun when we fly.

[Snuggle]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Me personally, I don't like the overall working conditions and treatment from the company. When I bid and am awarded say 12 days off in a month, I expect that I get those 12 days off a month. Not called while on duty and drafted for my off days in West Va. with no rental car and hotel.

Misery loves company, I believe that, but thats not the case at all with me. It just amazes me some of the stuff Colgan gets away with and how they treat their employees. If me being honest and airing out the laundry deters someone from coming here, then good.

It amazes me how many people here take that crap. When scheduling tried to threaten me with that MT with calling me at 4:30 am I wasn't having it. (refernce my old thread) I made the proper phone calls and filed the proper complaints. Most importantly I stood my ground. As a result I was not given a MT and everything was taken care of. They tried to draft me once to go to Beckley and again I stood my ground. My days off are my days off and scheduling knows better then to try and call me for open time. I've already told them not to bother and they don't anymore.

[Chris_Ford]

I didn't mean to call you Colgan guys out per se, but what I call the "Flightinfo" rule comes into effect:

The number of threads about a particular regional is inversely proportional to the quality of said regional.


JC works the same way, there are a million Colgan threads where tons of people are complaining about their situation. Not that Seggy is in particular (and it is nice for him to offer up jobs, but why not go to Piedmont if you want to stay in the northeast?)

And to the Big Sky guys out there, throw up a thread and I'm sure you'll have 8-10 PMs from different companies trying to help you out in any way possible.

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

There is a huge difference between saying, "This isn't cool . . . we really need to fix this" and saying, "This place sucks . . . management sucks . . . would you believe what they did to me this month?? . . . ", etc etc. If you wanna fix things, then fix them. But, I don't wanna hear your sad stories of woe.

Agreed man. I am the "this isn't cool, we really need to fix things" type of person.

Actions always speak louder than words.

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

I didn't mean to call you Colgan guys out per se, but what I call the "Flightinfo" rule comes into effect:

The number of threads about a particular regional is inversely proportional to the quality of said regional.


JC works the same way, there are a million Colgan threads where tons of people are complaining about their situation. Not that Seggy is in particular (and it is nice for him to offer up jobs, but why not go to Piedmont if you want to stay in the northeast?)

And to the Big Sky guys out there, throw up a thread and I'm sure you'll have 8-10 PMs from different companies trying to help you out in any way possible.

Agreed there are a ton of Colgan threads on here, but we do have a ton of people that do work here that also post on here. It is good for us to communicate as we are spread out in over twenty bases.

Think about it. You are in the left seat at Big Sky, and you might need only a couple more hundred hours to get that 1000 TPIC or the mins for a sweet corporate job. Would you want to sit right seat at Piedmont for 3+ years? Pretty sure Colgan was going to offer these Big Sky guys Captain positions.

Just trying to get the info out there that my employer asked me to. I have nothing personal against the Colgans. They gave me a chance when no one else did. I do owe them alot. Trying to help them recruit decent guys is the least I can do.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by Seggy

Geez, Lloyd.

No place is perfect. There are ups and downs to every airline out there. I love my job, love the guys (for the most part) that I work with, and love getting up in the morning to go to work. However, there are some issues to the job, like any airline.

I've come to the realization, with some assistance from a fellow JC'r, that Lloyd will never complain about his present profession. It's simple.

He was a marine. (err - Is a Marine. . .sorry. . .)

And essentially - anything right now is better than what he either a) grew up with, or b) took part in as a young adult / whatever he did before flying for a living.

With that being said, Lloyd will forever enjoy flying (we all should enjoy what we do for a living) - no matter how bad it may get for him, he will never acknowledge it - for fear of losing his great Utopian vision of flying for a living. And of course, for fear of looking like one of those who "whine" all the time. When in reality, it's no where near whining but rather observations that provide a non-positive outlook - and usually here on JC those observations are not shown with the "back it up with your actions" since this is simply an online message forum and how is one member going to know what another member actually does to back up their statements about their non-positive observations.

Anyway - all of this is just casual observation and discussing Lloyd's opinions/antics with a JC'r that has actually hung out with the great happy go lucky 100% of the time Lloyd.

Lloyd, you've got my cell # - so if my observations are in any way incorrect, I'd love to get the straight skinny on your background and why when ANYONE mentions anything slightly negative about flying for a living, you're johnny on the spot with the Utopian vision.

[Seggy]

Just for the record, I have the utmost respect for Lloyd and his life experiences (even though he is a sell out ).

We just disagree on certain things. It is good we have an open dialog on here.

[kellwolf]

Eh, sometimes complaints contain a nugget of truth. If no one complained, then management would always win. Seriously. At least, that's the way it would be at this airline. CHQ might be different. Same with XJT. Those two airlines might look at their pilots as partners in business rather than a cost to be managed. Unfortunately, that's not the case here. So the "When are you quitting?" line means that if the people complaining and fighting quit, then we'd be losing guys that are trying to make the airline better. We've already got enough people here that are just happy to be here flying a jet. We need more bitter people that are ready to take a stand. Sorry if that doesn't fit with a few people's perspectives, but that's the truth at some airlines. Sometimes you have to work for a crappy airline to understand.

[H46Bubba]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Indeed, perspective makes a difference.

I flew with a Captain last week, and he started complaining about how much his quality of life went down when our company closed the Orlando base and he now has to commute. In his words, "They completely changed my life". He said that it was miserable.

My answer? 'When are you quitting?". He didn't know how to answer that. Every time he whined about something, I'd ask him when he was quitting. He soon stopped whining and simply shut the F- up. I refuse to be in the cockpit with somebody that whines the whole time. NOT gonna happen. If commuting is that bad to him, he should just not commute.

Awesome!

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Indeed, perspective makes a difference.

I flew with a Captain last week, and he started complaining about how much his quality of life went down when our company closed the Orlando base and he now has to commute. In his words, "They completely changed my life". He said that it was miserable.

My answer? 'When are you quitting?". He didn't know how to answer that. Every time he whined about something, I'd ask him when he was quitting. He soon stopped whining and simply shut the F- up. I refuse to be in the cockpit with somebody that whines the whole time. NOT gonna happen. If commuting is that bad to him, he should just not commute.

There is a huge difference between saying, "This isn't cool . . . we really need to fix this" and saying, "This place sucks . . . management sucks . . . would you believe what they did to me this month?? . . . ", etc etc. If you wanna fix things, then fix them. But, I don't wanna hear your sad stories of woe.

You're my hero Lloyd. Lets spoon.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

I've come to the realization, with some assistance from a fellow JC'r, that Lloyd will never complain about his present profession. It's simple.

He was a marine. (err - Is a Marine. . .sorry. . .)

And essentially - anything right now is better than what he either a) grew up with, or b) took part in as a young adult / whatever he did before flying for a living.

With that being said, Lloyd will forever enjoy flying (we all should enjoy what we do for a living) - no matter how bad it may get for him, he will never acknowledge it - for fear of losing his great Utopian vision of flying for a living. And of course, for fear of looking like one of those who "whine" all the time. When in reality, it's no where near whining but rather observations that provide a non-positive outlook - and usually here on JC those observations are not shown with the "back it up with your actions" since this is simply an online message forum and how is one member going to know what another member actually does to back up their statements about their non-positive observations.

Anyway - all of this is just casual observation and discussing Lloyd's opinions/antics with a JC'r that has actually hung out with the great happy go lucky 100% of the time Lloyd.

Lloyd, you've got my cell # - so if my observations are in any way incorrect, I'd love to get the straight skinny on your background and why when ANYONE mentions anything slightly negative about flying for a living, you're johnny on the spot with the Utopian vision.

Not a bad observation, Surreal. If you ask any of the JC'ers that have hung out with me, they'll pretty much tell you that I'm then same way in "real" life. There isn't a whole lot of moping around and being sad. I've had a few times in my life, but they're usually short-lived. The way I see it, I can spend the energy talking about how miserable I am, or I can make it better. That starts with ME, and nobody else. It's almost like I'm high on life . . . I love it - can't let anybody bring me down.

Will I always love flying? Who knows. Maybe one day I'll wake up and realize that my company (whoever that may be) sucks, and I'm tired of being treated like crap. One thing is certain . . . if I have that realization, I'll simply sit down to write my resignation letter. There are always other fun jobs.

Hope that clears up my perspective.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by Seggy

Just for the record, I have the utmost respect for Lloyd and his life experiences (even though he is a sell out ).

We just disagree on certain things. It is good we have an open dialog on here.

That's absolutely correct.

Mark and I definitely disagree on some things, and that's alright - adults can do that. We also agree on a lot of the same things. He's not afraid to tell me what he thinks and I'm not afraid to tell him what I think. Nobody gets their feelings hurt, and there is still room for much beer at the end of the day.

Except that I can drink more than he can, and he wishes that he had an APU.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Sometimes you have to work for a crappy airline to understand.

Before, when I wasn't an airline employee, it was "You have to work for an airline" to understand. How predictable!

[H46Bubba]

Lloyd, where the heck do you find all these ####ed up avatars???

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by H46Bubba

Lloyd, where the heck do you find all these ####ed up avatars???

That one came to me over dinner . . .

[H46Bubba]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

That one came to me over dinner . . .

Did you have Quing Ju's dog on a stick again?

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by H46Bubba

Did you have Quing Ju's dog on a stick again?

It looked so good wagging it's tail!!!

[Kingairer]

I dont think the "just quit" option is as easy at it sounds. The seniority factor is reason enough to stick it out sometimes. If you could take your X number of years seniority to another airline, youd see alot more people telling a company to "shove it". I can certainly understand someones disdain for commuting to work when once upon of time they were living in base. If they happned to close the base that i just moved to, i would not be a happy camper either....

....with that being said, MCO closed a long time ago and its time to "throw goose's dog tags to sea" and let it go. I think with JC now being gone possible they are looking for someone else to complain about.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

I dont think the "just quit" option is as easy at it sounds.

Nah. It's just that easy. Things are so black and white, ya know.

Originally Posted by MTSUav8r

Before, when I wasn't an airline employee, it was "You have to work for an airline" to understand. How predictable!

Lloyd, man. You know I've got respect for ya, but sometimes you might actually have to take the rose colored glasses off and listen to the people that have been/are there. Life at CHQ and PCL aren't even REMOTELY the same. Just b/c they're both airlines doesn't mean things are equal at both. Both have different contracts, different pilot groups and (most importantly) different management teams. I highly doubt the CAL guys working under Lorenzo were saying "Eh, we're just like the rest of the airlines out there."

BTW, I'm sure that you have learned that there are some things in the airline would that you might not understand until you've actually done it. Flying wise, everything's pretty similar to any other flying job. It's all the politics that make it....interesting.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Life at CHQ and PCL aren't even REMOTELY the same.

But his response will be "You had a choice in which company to work for."

Which I do agree with to some extent, you DO have a choice. That being said, PCL didn't look so bad when you went there and Colgan didn't look bad when I chose to come here. I was happy at first. There was no report that the 1900 was leaving, the ALPA drive was on and the company was taking BIDS for Q400 transitions. Then it snow balled. Maybe I was too vocal about my displeasure with this place and the way they treated us on the Beech, but again, while I love my job and love to fly, I HATE being treated like a piece of s***. Colgan does not deserve a steady flow of incoming pilots, young and starry eyed like I was.

And while everyone was saying "Shut up or Quit", well damn, I guess no one has ever been in that situation. Its much easier to get another 121 job while working for a 121 carrier. It took me a few months to FINALLY get an interview setup with my number one choice company.

** And I should also add, that aside from being a contract CFI, Colgan was my FIRST civilian job after being in the military. So I do have a level of tolerance that the military puts into you. But many times I was recalled and had to work on my off days in the Coast Guard, and I never once complained because I signed up for it and I was always ready for the call. I was in shock when I found out that this place likes to the do the same thing. My mentality was bulls***!! For 4 years I sacrificed every day of my life to the U.S. Government and I did it PROUDLY. In no way am I going to sacrifice every day of my civilian life to some half ass company that doesn't care one bit about its employees while being paid less than HALF of what the military was paying. I looked forward to the freedom that Civilian life offers, and Colgan tries to impede on that.

[meritflyer]

CHQ guys aren't all that happy anyways, at least the ones I spoke with daily for a couple months in Houston. It's about perspective I guess.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

CHQ guys aren't all that happy anyways, at least the ones I spoke with daily for a couple months in Houston. It's about perspective I guess.

Its about expectations and personal needs. I know XJT guys that are unhappy, yet I look at their situation and see that its leaps and bounds better then my situation. Its just a matter of what you expect and what you need. I expect that I will enjoy my days off with no bother from the company, my need is to be able to pay my bills, spend time with my wife and have a reasonable commute to work. Hopefully my next endeavor can satisfy those. If it can, then anything else that comes with the job is just part of the job.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Its about expectations and personal needs. I know XJT guys that are unhappy, yet I look at their situation and see that its leaps and bounds better then my situation. Its just a matter of what you expect and what you need. I expect that I will enjoy my days off with no bother from the company, my need is to be able to pay my bills, spend time with my wife and have a reasonable commute to work. Hopefully my next endeavor can satisfy those. If it can, then anything else that comes with the job is just part of the job.

I am careful with expectations. They always seem to not be what you've "heard" or thought.