Spent a few moments with the hiring folks...

[Doug Taylor]

Ok, here's what I learned at Southernjets.

College counts BIG TIME. One of the people being discussed was a little light on flight time, but had an exemplary college record and did, apparently, a number of extra curricular activities which impressed the heck out of the board. Yes, college checks the box, but an exemplary college record chock full of extra-curricular activities and WILL HELP your application. I saw this today.

If there's anything in your background that might cause concern, PLEASE talk about what happened, it's not the incident, it's the 'cover up'. What happened, what the result of the investigation was, etc. Seriously, there'd have been another invite to interview under my sleeve if the applicant was more descriptive. Besides, you're probably making a way bigger deal out of it than they would.

MAKE FRIENDS. Some people are getting invites, others might get them in another month or so as their files are being monitored. The reason I say MAKE FRIENDS is that one of my friends from way back has been moving up the ladder, so to speak, and is going to work with some of the applicants that didn't get invites today, but will in the near future. You never know where your friends (or your enemies) are going to end up in the food chain. Better to have a good pal in a position to help you than an enemy in a position to hurt you. Think about it folks.

More details as they progress. Got to get to gouge out to some lucky applicants! Let's wish them success!

[Doug Taylor]

And PIC is the key at this point. Turboprops, Jets, whatever. One person we talked about has captain time in a small turboprop whereas another has no PIC and a buttload of CRJ SO time and the applicant with PIC made it to the next step.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

And PIC is the key at this point. Turboprops, Jets, whatever. One person we talked about has captain time in a small turboprop whereas another has no PIC and a buttload of CRJ SO time and the applicant with PIC made it to the next step.

LIES! THAT'S NOT WHAT MY FLIGHT SCHOOL TOLD ME! THEY SAID I NEEDED JET TIME! I'M TAKING MY BALL AND GOING HOME!

[desertdog71]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

And PIC is the key at this point. Turboprops, Jets, whatever. One person we talked about has captain time in a small turboprop whereas another has no PIC and a buttload of CRJ SO time and the applicant with PIC made it to the next step.

Yeah but............

I keep hearing the "some carriers won't accept T-prop time" nonsense. Funny how its from RJ operators, looking for new recruits.

[Doug Taylor]

Right now, turbine PIC is the king. Doesn't matter if it's jet or turboprop! They were more impressed that the applicant had PIC time in a Embraer-110 than they were that he was flying a large, three-holed transport category aircraft.

(Sorry if this description matches someone whose reading this!)

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

And PIC is the key at this point. Turboprops, Jets, whatever. One person we talked about has captain time in a small turboprop whereas another has no PIC and a buttload of CRJ SO time and the applicant with PIC made it to the next step.

Hehe... that could be me. Oh well. Maybe some time in the next year the upgrade gods will smile at me.

Good to know that the college thing might actually help me out some day though.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Right now, turbine PIC is the king. Doesn't matter if it's jet or turboprop! They were more impressed that the applicant had PIC time in a Embraer-110 than they were that he was flying a large, three-holed transport category aircraft.

(Sorry if this description matches someone whose reading this!)

Whoa whoa whoa, he got an interview? I've gotta make some calls here in the next day or two.

[I_Money]

Thanks Doug - I got the call today, with under 200 hours flight time!

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by I_Money

Thanks Doug - I got the call today, with under 200 hours flight time!

[Velocipede]

There are some exceptions...Alaska is taking Horizon F/Os with ZERO PIC.

[jtrain609]

CAL is also taking ExpressJet first officers with no turbine PIC, which is great if you live in Newark, Houston or Cleveland.

[Velocipede]

Wish I could be a fly on the wall when some of these cats go for their very first PIC checkout and its on a Major Airline 737. I'd be willing to bet the washout rate is pretty high. You learn an awful lot in those Regional/Military PIC/Aircraft Commander jobs.

[Baronman]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

CAL is also taking ExpressJet first officers with no turbine PIC, which is great if you live in Newark, Houston or Cleveland.

Those guys are very connected...Dad's/Mom's/Husband/Wife/Intern club.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Wish I could be a fly on the wall when some of these cats go for their very first PIC checkout and its on a Major Airline 737. I'd be willing to bet the washout rate is pretty high. You learn an awful lot in those Regional/Military PIC/Aircraft Commander jobs.

Well right now the wash out rate is (or at least was) incredibly high for the type ride. Turns out these guys were not ready in any way to be sitting in the left seat and had not used their time in the right seat very effectively. 22 months later they had their asses handed to them.

EDIT: I should clarify this is in the EMB-145.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by Baronman

Those guys are very connected...Dad's/Mom's/Husband/Wife/Intern club.

True dat, but I've run into two that were not. One spent a year at Skywest and came over (he had a walk in from a captain he knew) and another guy was just lucky. He spent a year at Express, didn't know anybody and once he hit the minimums he went across the street.

Those guys are not the norm though, of course.

[I_Money]

I doubt the wash out rate is high - in Europe most guys get their first feel of PIC in 747, 737 or whatever.

[Velocipede]

But, that's a very structured training program. They activley train their F/Os for upgrade every day. Its almost militaristic.

Not so here. How many F/Os veg in the right seat until they can upgrade?

[LoadMasterC141]

Yes, college checks the box, but an exemplary college record chock full of extra-curricular activities and WILL HELP your application.

I have a 1.96 GPA from an ivy league school. My extra curricular activities included:
1) Driving to and from college 20 miles because that is about as close as the 'po folk can get.
2) Driving a tractor trailer to and from NYC a minimum of 4 out of 7 days a week to pay for everything Uncle Sam and the Loans would not. On weekends, I worked as a dispatcher. When the manager got sick, I ran the 30 truck operation, drove, and went to school for over a semester.
3) Dealing with everyday life because I was 23 and living on my own.

Sure I could have gone to Cornell right out of High School, but I had no way to pay for it. I served my country for 4 1/2 years to to get some financial support. Then I went to community college for 2 years and achieved a 3.94 GPA to get accepted into Cornell.

I truly believe Cornell was both the worst experience of my life and also the biggest achievement to date; I know it would not have been if I had an all expenses paid for trip to college. Instead of studying in a sleeper berth when I could, there would have been groups to study with. Playing some sports, joining clubs, and attending "mixers" would have been much more fun than sitting behind the wheel for endless hours.

The really sad part is the system, IE how corporate America often hires, favors those who got the e-Ticket.
Am I bitter against them? No. Am I bitter the system will favor them? Yes.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Well right now the wash out rate is (or at least was) incredibly high for the type ride.

20% at that company now.

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Wish I could be a fly on the wall when some of these cats go for their very first PIC checkout and its on a Major Airline 737. I'd be willing to bet the washout rate is pretty high. You learn an awful lot in those Regional/Military PIC/Aircraft Commander jobs.

Exactly. And not just for the type ride, but for the fed ride on the line also. I couldn't imagine going through all of that for the first time at a major. Why on Earth is Alaska hiring guys without PIC time? I figured you guys could get the pick of the litter from pilots on the west coast.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Not so here. How many F/Os veg in the right seat until they can upgrade?

Sadly, I hear about this a LOT. "Huh? What? I got a type rating at JetU. I just have to wait until I get the hours and then I'll make the big $$$."

[Velocipede]

Because they can't get any Regional Captains to give up their seats for the crappy wages they pay F/Os.

[JDMcFly]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

Yep.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Sadly, I hear about this a LOT. "Huh? What? I got a type rating at JetU. I just have to wait until I get the hours and then I'll make the big $$$."

Do PNCL managers not see the eventually problem with this?

FOs who paid for a jet course with 250-400 hours, never had to make a decision in a cockpit, now upgrading to the left seat signing for the airplane and in charge of a crew?

Gotta be ####ting me. . .

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Do PNCL managers not see the eventually problem with this?

FOs who paid for a jet course with 250-400 hours, never had to make a decision in a cockpit, now upgrading to the left seat signing for the airplane and in charge of a crew?

Gotta be ####ting me. . .

Nope. They don't look that far in the future. Heck, we're lucky if they look two or three months down the road, much less a year or two. All they're concerned with is getting the current flying covered and how big their annual bonus is gonna be. The amount of money they save the company goes towards said bonus. So, raising FO pay to attract a quality applicant isn't really high on their list.