What's a low time pilot to do?

[surreal1221]

Wammy. . .That's how it's done kids.

[azpilot84]

$5k-$7k is still $5k-$7k. Aside from CFI-ing, as that has been amply elaborated, does anyone have an additional suggestions or possible leads?

[Trip7]

Originally Posted by azpilot84

$5k-$7k is still $5k-$7k. Aside from CFI-ing, as that has been amply elaborated, does anyone have an additional suggestions or possible leads?

Good luck

[Itchy]

Learn to fly, be a CFI.

[vheissu]

http://www.scenicops.com/scenicpilot/hiring.html

[aerospacepilot]

Originally Posted by azpilot84

If you have any other suggestion they're still welcome.

Two things.
First, I am going to agree with what everyone else has told you so far. Get your CFI. Not only is it the best way to make the most money with your current times, but you will become such a better pilot by instructing. Don't worry about going into slight debt to get a CFI rating. If you pay $12,000 for your CFI/II/MEI, you got robbed! If I were you, I would get my CFI/II, and hold off on the MEI until you can afford it. You are marketable with just a CFI, but adding on the II costs under $1,000, and it will make you a better candidate for a job. Investing in your education is the best investment you can make, which brings me to my next piece of advice.

Go out and get a 4 year college degree. If you have aspirations of ever flying for a major airline, or corporate, you will need a 4 year college degree. If you don't get a 4 year college degree, you will be missing out on many good opportunities. No way is anyone going to hire you at 250/25 without a college degree. Investing in your education is the best investment you can make. Don't sell yourself short just because you don't want to pay a little bit of interest.

Definitely get your CFI/II, and then get a 4 year college degree.

[azpilot84]

Originally Posted by aerospacepilot

Two things.
First, I am going to agree with what everyone else has told you so far. Get your CFI. Not only is it the best way to make the most money with your current times, but you will become such a better pilot by instructing. Don't worry about going into slight debt to get a CFI rating. If you pay $12,000 for your CFI/II/MEI, you got robbed! If I were you, I would get my CFI/II, and hold off on the MEI until you can afford it. You are marketable with just a CFI, but adding on the II costs under $1,000, and it will make you a better candidate for a job. Investing in your education is the best investment you can make, which brings me to my next piece of advice.

Go out and get a 4 year college degree. If you have aspirations of ever flying for a major airline, or corporate, you will need a 4 year college degree. If you don't get a 4 year college degree, you will be missing out on many good opportunities. No way is anyone going to hire you at 250/25 without a college degree. Investing in your education is the best investment you can make. Don't sell yourself short just because you don't want to pay a little bit of interest.

Definitely get your CFI/II, and then get a 4 year college degree.

A degree is in the works, I just don't have one yet and it will be a while before I'm done.

[launchpad]

The market right now is good for low time people in the 121 environment. However, remember that the washout rate is high, and you'll definitely be held back for upgrade until you get the required flight time. If you can get a job with Great Lakes, Colgan, PSA, or any other airline with mins that low, then more power to you. I just had a Great Lakes jumpseater with 275/50.....kinda scary if you ask me, but it is what it is.

All your other options are going to cost you money. The 121 operators who reduce their minimums for people with "special training" don't tell you that the special training will cost anywhere from $7000 to up to $25000. Now, you pay for that program, and you get a job...it may be worth it. If you get furloughed soon after getting that job, you'll be on the streets with maybe 500 hours and 200 multi. Lets say the regionals aren't hiring low time any more......you have absolutely no fall back.

Now, lets say you spend $7000 on your CFI, II, and MEI. You get the benefit of getting paid while you build time (and maybe even get benefits). You get the benefit of a lot of experience and exposure (which is essential to being a good airline pilot....not just a pilot in the right seat of an airliner). If you end up getting furloughed (it happens quite a bit in this business), you have something to fall back on.....experienced instructors are very hard to come by these days...I just did a BFR for a guy and he paid me $300. Not only all this, but when you retire, and as long as you keep your CFI current, you'll have a good excuse to get out of the house and skip out on your wife's nagging.........

I would seriously consider the CFI route...the value for the cost is very high, and you'll have something to show for it. Those RJ courses are fine, but you have nothing but a piece of paper saying you did it.

I had 80 hours of 727 sim time coming out of college..didn't help me one bit. I enjoyed the experience, but that's about all it ended up being.......

[Maximillian_Jenius]

All though, I do logically conceed that paying $12-18k for your CFI-MEI is crazy, probably the only place you can not get robbed is at an FBO.

However all or most FBO's are hooked up with the SLM mafia, so you get robbed on that front as well. With what all their outrageous fees and higher interest rates. And that's all if you can even get approved at the SLM.

A guy I know who works for an FBO in CA. said that they had a new student all ready to go. He had a 775 FICO, and his co-signer had a 750.

Denied!

[athomeinthesky]

Traffic watch/pipe line most places want 500tt

Aerial mapping take you with 250tt but they started in October

You could get your CFI licenses instruct somewhere and after 200hrs of instruction given you can get a job in Goodyear, Arizona teaching Lufthansa cadets starting at $35,000 top $50,000.

Or if you just want to go to an airline, Scenic, Piedmont, Big Sky.

[P&H]

anything over 200 hours is high time in today's market =P

[rdsoxpilot]

Originally Posted by azpilot84

What are options for a pilot with about 250TT/25ME, all within the past 12 months, Commercial ME and an Instrument rating?

My goal here is to avoid debt:

-Gulfstream (or anything similar) is definitely out of the picture ($30k+)
-Trying to avoid a "time building program" ($5k-$10k+)
-Getting CFI CFII and MEI is a valid option, and I'm probably gonna get some guff for saying it, but $12k-$18k in additional debt just doesn't sound fun. It's not that it's beneath me to do it cause I'm aware of the benefits of instructing, I just want to avoid the debt.

I know some regionals have their official mins that low but how many are actually taking people with that low time and no college degree, dual given, 121/135 experience, or "specialized" training (first officer course, CRM classes, etc..)?

If anyone has some good options please let me know. I'm open to any suggestions and the help will be much appreciated.

started out w/rochester aerial mapping service w/275 & 25 and havn't looked back since. other option is to do the cfi/mei route which is great, as long as you have the right flight school. good luck, pm me if you want i'm in the same boat as yourself

[athomeinthesky]

I thought mapping is only from October to whenever the leaves come back? its nearly December so wouldn't they have everybody they need.

[azpilot84]

I think I'll go with a happy medium...

I'll get on somewhere that will take me with what I have(aerial mapping, regional, scenic tours, etc..) and while I'm there I'll get CFI & II and then go from there.

If that doesn't work I'll beg and pleade family for the $5k for CFI and II, build some time, and get on with somewhere a little better.

[athomeinthesky]

Originally Posted by azpilot84

I think I'll go with a happy medium...

I'll get on somewhere that will take me with what I have(aerial mapping, regional, scenic tours, etc..) and while I'm there I'll get CFI & II and then go from there.

If that doesn't work I'll beg and pleade family for the $5k for CFI and II, build some time, and get on with somewhere a little better.

It is obvious you don't want to CFI so why just not say that?

[X-Forces]

Originally Posted by azpilot84

I think I'll go with a happy medium...

I'll get on somewhere that will take me with what I have(aerial mapping, regional, scenic tours, etc..) and while I'm there I'll get CFI & II and then go from there.

If that doesn't work I'll beg and pleade family for the $5k for CFI and II, build some time, and get on with somewhere a little better.

More power to you, but that plan is a bit bass-ackward.

Do you think if you get on with a regional carrier, or a part 91 commercial operator, you are going to have the time to knock out your CFI as well?

You might, but I think you might be in for a bit of a shock.

If you are going to get your CFI do yourself a favor, get it first. It will help you out in the long run.


(Just my opinion, I could be wrong)

[n57flyguy]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

All though, I do logically conceed that paying $12-18k for your CFI-MEI is crazy, probably the only place you can not get robbed is at an FBO.

However all or most FBO's are hooked up with the SLM mafia, so you get robbed on that front as well. With what all their outrageous fees and higher interest rates. And that's all if you can even get approved at the SLM.

A guy I know who works for an FBO in CA. said that they had a new student all ready to go. He had a 775 FICO, and his co-signer had a 750.

Denied!

Thats CA! and we call it airport politics...happens at every FBO/airport. And what the hell is the SLM mafia?

[juskl]

One thing that should probably be stated is the difference between quoted price and actual. As in quoted 2K but spent 4500. Also, did you just walk out of a Comm/Inst program, or like alot of us, that was a few years ago??? It can take a bit to get back in the swing of things, and that costs as well.

I did my CFI for about 4500 and that was everything (Books, Ground, Flight, Checkride, Etc.) To be honest, it is fare enough. I was able to get hired by the school I went to get my CFI. I am also in my mid 30's and am not looking to jump ship anytime soon. But that is really the only way to get hired by us. We are very strict in our aggressive style of flying and those doing an airbus pattern in a two seat airplane need not apply.

I will get my II in the Spring and plan on spending about 1500 for it (company discount) as long as I am up to par. ME takes about 20 plus hours at our school so about 4000. MEI, probably about the same, but with us, you need to be here about two years before you can get your multi, let alone teach multi. This is due to our school wanting instructors with a few thousand hours teaching multi students, not a few hundred. We expect our instructors to eventually teach tailwheel and aerobatics and want to as well. We have a method to our maddness. We want our instructors to know and have experienced aviation, not just built time. There is soo much to learn and and soo much to master in aviation, don't rush it. Enjoy and savour it.

Are pay and benefits pretty weak? You bet. But I wouldn't trade where I am for the world. Alot of schools are looking (begging) for instructors. You should be able to find a school. We are fully staffed and have not let down much all year long (federal contracts). Averaging about 1000 hours a year per instructor, but could care less really. As long as I get to teach in the Pitts down the road, I will be happy.

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by azpilot84

$5k-$7k is still $5k-$7k. Aside from CFI-ing, as that has been amply elaborated, does anyone have an additional suggestions or possible leads?

yeah, but it's not 12-14k....

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by azpilot84

I think I'll go with a happy medium...

I'll get on somewhere that will take me with what I have(aerial mapping, regional, scenic tours, etc..) and while I'm there I'll get CFI & II and then go from there.

If that doesn't work I'll beg and pleade family for the $5k for CFI and II, build some time, and get on with somewhere a little better.

Why get the CFI & II if you're not going to instruct?

[DoWhat?]

Where do you work juskl? Sounds like a pretty sweet instructor gig!

[granlistillo]

Originally Posted by n57flyguy

Thats CA! and we call it airport politics...happens at every FBO/airport. And what the hell is the SLM mafia?

I think that is Sallie Mae or SLM Financial. Some of these loan companies and schools are a mafia for real. There was the student loan scandals last year that was in the national news with congressional hearings...

[azpilot84]

Originally Posted by Kristie

Why get the CFI & II if you're not going to instruct?

As a back-up. In case I get furloughed. In case I need to build PIC to make 121/135 PIC mins.

And I have a son being born in Feb. Eventually I'd like to be able to teach him to fly.

[granlistillo]

Originally Posted by azpilot84

I know some regionals have their official mins that low but how many are actually taking people with that low time and no college degree, dual given, 121/135 experience, or "specialized" training (first officer course, CRM classes, etc..)?

Not one.

Yes, some guys get on lower than 300 hrs. But they have a lot of other things going for them. Lowest I saw was capt grads with 220 going to ASA.

Sounds to me like you need to instruct for about 300 hrs.

[secretapproach]

Originally Posted by athomeinthesky

You could get your CFI licenses instruct somewhere and after 200hrs of instruction given you can get a job in Goodyear, Arizona teaching Lufthansa cadets starting at $35,000 top $50,000.

Interesting...I had never thought about that option. I got my private license in Germany several years ago and speak fluent German.

Does anyone know someone who has worked at the LH academy?