G1000 or Round dial for IR

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

Kid had his private from some G1000 program. and wanted to get his instrument from us if we had an airplane with it. He ended up going someplace else. Hadnt a clue what an NDB, or ADF was. I never had time to talk about that "GPS looking thingy" called a loran.

As he left He had the audacity to say "well I'll be flying a JET in a year with my GLASS time, and you'll be lucky to be in some crap turboprop, while I get JET time"

I said "Yes I will be lucky if I get the chance to fly an awesome piece of machinery that is caled a turboprop."

That's probably my future FO......

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

Kid had his private from some G1000 program. and wanted to get his instrument from us if we had an airplane with it. He ended up going someplace else. Hadnt a clue what an NDB, or ADF was. I never had time to talk about that "GPS looking thingy" called a loran.

As he left He had the audacity to say "well I'll be flying a JET in a year with my GLASS time, and you'll be lucky to be in some crap turboprop, while I get JET time"

I said "Yes I will be lucky if I get the chance to fly an awesome piece of machinery that is caled a turboprop."

Y'know, there used to be a bar in Dallas called "Trees" that had a Wall Of Shame - they'd confiscate Fake IDs (they're not supposed to) and put them on the wall right by the door to discourage repeat offenders. I heard it was effective.

I wonder if you guys could do the same thing...photos and stuff with "this could be YOUR FO!"

(is the sarcasm tag necessary here?)

[jwp_145]

Tprops4me, yes I've flown IFR on round dials... not a problem.

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

Kid had his private from some G1000 program. and wanted to get his instrument from us if we had an airplane with it. He ended up going someplace else. Hadnt a clue what an NDB, or ADF was. I never had time to talk about that "GPS looking thingy" called a loran.

As he left He had the audacity to say "well I'll be flying a JET in a year with my GLASS time, and you'll be lucky to be in some crap turboprop, while I get JET time"

I said "Yes I will be lucky if I get the chance to fly an awesome piece of machinery that is caled a turboprop."

I hope he fails. We don't need that garbage.

[E6BAV8R]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

Glass is easy once you figure it out, almost too easy as it does so much for you.

Couldn't agree more. Our flight school just got a G1000 and after flying round dials for my IR and about 350 hours, stepping up to a G1000 I thought it made flying waaay to easy and still prefer the round dials anytime I plan on going into actual.

[charlie1017]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

As he left He had the audacity to say "well I'll be flying a JET in a year with my GLASS time, and you'll be lucky to be in some crap turboprop, while I get JET time"

Wow what an A-hole!!!
I hope his interview sim ride is done on a nice steam gauge plane... But with that attitude he won't make it THAT far.

[sundog]

It's the same question as, "should i learn to drive in a stick and then transition to an automatic, or should i learn to drive in an automatic and then transition to a stick"

you can either learn on the hard, old fashioned stuff and then upgrade to the easy way, or you can learn the fundamentals in the easier modern way, and then learn the harder, older stuff after you have a good foundation.

IMHO both ways end up about the same, but you ought to learn both in the end.

[jtrain609]

I'll contend that you DO NOT come out the same, and I've seen the results of trying to go from glass and GPS wizbang crap to /A round dial flying first hand.

You don't want to go from glass to round dials.

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by sundog

you can either learn on the hard, old fashioned stuff and then upgrade to the easy way, or you can learn the fundamentals in the easier modern way, and then learn the harder, older stuff after you have a good foundation.

+1 for stick-shift! I can't believe how some people drive automatics.

...but to get back on track. I don't think it's the same. Going from glass to steam gauges is not the same. Steam gauges ----> glass is a much better option.

[Doug Taylor]

Round dial!

Learn the fundamentals of steam and work on your ability to create and maintain situational awareness without a map display or any of the crutches of glass.

You've got all your career to play with glass, work on the basic fundamentals first.

Don't be that dude in ground school that can't figure out where he is on an LOC BC approach on an HSI.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Round dial!

Learn the fundamentals of steam and work on your ability to create and maintain situational awareness without a map display or any of the crutches of glass.

You've got all your career to play with glass, work on the basic fundamentals first.

Don't be that dude in ground school that can't figure out where he is on an LOC BC approach on an HSI.

You...you're joking right?

[Doug Taylor]

Oh snap, did that happen?

Seriously, if it happened to anyone here, the reference is purely accidental.

[jtrain609]

Well, I mean actually I've got some stories for you one of these days, and it relates directly to this discussion...

[mastermags]

Do the round dial, then you can transition to the B1900 easier.

[granlistillo]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Round dial!n
Learn the fundamentals of steam and work on your ability to create and maintain situational awareness without a map display or any of the crutches of glass.

If price is the same, I couldn't imagine opting for steam gauges with mechanical gyros and raw pitot static insts. It would seem a no brainer.

With G1000 the instructor should teach approaches with the backup mode engaged so there are two pfds and turn off the map inset.
Also, a good instructor will teach the G1000 as if it was steam gauges, before introducing approaches with the "proc key"
Unfortunately there are guys (weekend warriors-Drs... are sometimes the worst offenders)who are flying IFR shooting approaches based on the map.
If you can fly diamonds systems like AHRS, Air Data computer, FADEC, EICAS it can give you a headsup in working with advanced sys. As was mentioned earlier, the student can always work on steam gauges too if they think they will fly a plane with steam.

I imagine that 50 yrs ago, people were discouraging learning in a nosewheel airplane.

[Bus Driver]

Originally Posted by granlistillo

I imagine that 50 yrs ago, people were discouraging learning in a nosewheel airplane.

And they were right.

[jwp_145]

How could flying IFR be made WAY to easy? I wouldn't say it is made "easier"... I would say it makes one more situationally aware.

[OldComputerGuy]

I really think it depends on what your goals in flying are. If you are just going to be a private pilot who flies for pleasure, and you have access to a G1000-equipped airplane (either as a rental or you're planning on buying a new aircraft), then by all means learn in the G1000. If you're planning on making this your career (in which case you may need those steam gauge skills as well as glass skills) or you're a renter and want to keep your options open, then in my opinion you should learn in a steam gauge airplane and then transition to G1000 after you get your rating. I found the transition to the G1000 to be pretty simple to make, but I can't imagine it being as easy going the other way. (The first school I instructed at did not have any G1000 aircraft, but the second school had one - which is rented out at a higher rate than the non-G1000 aircraft. When I do my pleasure flying, it's steam gauges because of the cost factor. But if I had the money to buy my own airplane, I'd definately go G1000.)

[BuickCFI]

Originally Posted by jwp_145

How could flying IFR be made WAY to easy? I wouldn't say it is made "easier"... I would say it makes one more situationally aware.

that is the hard part for a lot of people. you take away the map and pink line and they have no clue where they are or how to figure it out. i saw the same thing last night in the sim from one of my students

i have decided my students no longer get to fly in the sim with a moving map. and 90% of the time in the airplane. these student did the instrument rating in the glass airplanes and really have no situational awareness because others taught them to use all available resources. it also seems as if they don't load the approach in to the GPS then they can't figure out where they are on an approach.

this is why i wish our school still used Bendix King 89B

[TheAlchemist]

Originally Posted by granlistillo

I imagine that 50 yrs ago, people were discouraging learning in a nosewheel airplane.

In some countries is not the they discourage you
learning in a nosewheel plane. But they HIGHLY
recommend you learning on a tailwheel.
I got my brazilian PP on a tailwheel because that's
what my CFI and pilot friends encourage me to do.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Geez....I could go on, but I think I'll let Lloyd or jtrain take this one.

Pretty sad, huh Steve?

I remember talking to an AllATP CFI down in FTY when I was flying for FLX. He wanted to check out my airplane, so I gave him the tour. He asked me if we were VFR only, because we only had two VOR's, an ADF, no HSI, no DME, no GPS . . . I told him that we could (and did) fly in pretty much any IFR conditions, including known icing.

He proceeded to tell me that we were crazy, and that he understood where we go our reputation for being reckless and unsafe.

I just laughed . . .

We got those comments from a LOT of guys down there!

The sad part is that there are a lot off p1ss-poor CFIs out there discouraging the use of anything other than glass. One of the CFIs at Wings of Eagles was confused that I was going to fly for FLX because I'd forget how to use technology. He was convinced that I'd never get another job because I'd have the older equipment on my resume.

Poor, sad man.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

He was convinced that I'd never get another job because I'd have the older equipment on my resume.

Poor, sad man.

But look atchya now - you got a job a 300 hour 21 year old gets.

[adreamer]

Lloyd, I am wondering whether this CFI would call me crazy also with following situation, , an approach into AVL - with an ADF and HSI, no GPS or moving map, full ILS approach with procedure turn., no radar vector, rain, wind gust over 30 kts with crosswind component over 15 kts. Good time.

[MSUDAWG]

Originally Posted by adreamer

Lloyd, I am wondering whether this CFI would call me crazy also with following situation, , an approach into AVL - with an ADF and HSI, no GPS or moving map, full ILS approach with procedure turn., no radar vector, rain, wind gust over 30 kts with crosswind component over 15 kts. Good time.

when was that?

[Direct-enter-enter]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Pretty sad, huh Steve?

I remember talking to an AllATP CFI down in FTY when I was flying for FLX. He wanted to check out my airplane, so I gave him the tour. He asked me if we were VFR only, because we only had two VOR's, an ADF, no HSI, no DME, no GPS . . . I told him that we could (and did) fly in pretty much any IFR conditions, including known icing.

He proceeded to tell me that we were crazy, and that he understood where we go our reputation for being reckless and unsafe.

I just laughed . . .

We got those comments from a LOT of guys down there!

The sad part is that there are a lot off p1ss-poor CFIs out there discouraging the use of anything other than glass. One of the CFIs at Wings of Eagles was confused that I was going to fly for FLX because I'd forget how to use technology. He was convinced that I'd never get another job because I'd have the older equipment on my resume.

Poor, sad man.

First off to self disclose, I fly at ATP. That being said there are some really GPS reliant pilots here. I got the oppertunity to fly a 79 seminole that was still in the full glory of the 70's including the orange shagg carpet from FTY to CRG. I got this flight because folks from FTY said no way to flying it cuz it did not have a GPS!! I hope I am not near this type of pilot the next time the FEDs turn off the GPS!!
Oh, and forget /G. give me /vectors anyday

D-E-E